I'm looking for information on a German 16 ga. SxS. Barrels are marked Eduard Kettner Coln-Suhl and Mark Rhenus with serial#24291 and the word Nitro. The gun is a sidelock with fancy floral engraving, cocking indicators, and sideclips. If someone provides posting directions, I can send photos. Thanks in advance

If you are able to read German, Look here:

http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettner_(Unternehmen)

They built own guns in Suhl and traded with all kind of
guns and hunting outfits.
Those Suhl made guns were well made nice guns.

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

Eduard Kettner was mostly a dealer, trading in guns built by others.If the word Nitro is in "block"letters, it was proofed in Suhl(and likely made there);if it is in "script",it was proofed in Zella-Mehlis( and likely made in the area).Photos would be helpful.
Mike

Thank you for the replies. Please bear with me. This is my first attempt at posting a photo. I can post more if this works.
[image]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t297/welderman_07/Kettner9_zpsa9da219a.jpg[image]

Well, that worked partially. Lets try this second photo.
[image]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t297/welderman_07/Kettner5_zpse59149a9.jpg[image]

In the pre WW II aera they made very fine guns. Had their own gun production in Suhl at that time. Have a look here:

http://www.feine-jagdwaffen.de/Waffengalerie/Flinten

and search for "Kettner"

Best Regards,
Gunwolf

Gunwolf,
Please note the Kettner in your link is a Franz Kettner, not Ed. There is a good "write up" of these two firms in "Waidmannsheil"or "Waffenschmied", both publications of the German Gun Collectors Assn.
Mike

Mike, the Ed. is the Eduard Kettner in my link!
Raimey wrote The whole family history here:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...e6172d7d6ab57c4

Best Regards,
Wolfgang

Gunwolf, maybe I missed something, but the Kettner I found in the link was a very nice Franz Kettner Taubenflinte for sale. Raimey's link pretty much said the same as I, that Ed.Kettner firm was mostly a dealer,dealing in guns made by other Suhl makers( they did have to have a meister on staff).As always, I can be wrong.
Mike

The Kettner you describe is a beautiful piece of work, but I suspect it is from a more recent decade, possibly a more recent century. The Kettner I am interested in appears to be a pre-WW1 weapon. I have a copy of a business card printed in 1913 that describes the Eduard Kettner facility at Hohestrasse 67. It sure gives the appearance of a factory. The words say "Koln-Suhler Mechanisch-Gewehr-Fabrik.It gives the appearance that Eduaed was a serious gun maker and not only a retailer of other people's guns. Sorry, I am German challenged and can not read the links you have provided. Best Regards

Mike, you are right with the "live" Pigeon Gun...!
What Wikepedia says is:

"Kettner erwarb Fabriken in Suhl (Thüringen) und Porz (Köln), in denen Tausende von Jagdwaffen produziert und anschließend exportiert wurden."

That means, Kettner had own gun and rifle factories with a brand of it's own. "Kettner Cöln-Suhl"
Of course there are working masters of Suhl resp. Cologne as employees.

It was a great "merry-go-round" in that times, Kettner built guns and rifles in Cologne and Suhl. The barrels of those guns were partly imported from Liège and finely all were distributed to nearly the whole world.


What Ic12 said is on this picture:



Best regars,
Gunwolf

Gunwolf,
Maybe Axel will come in and straighten this out.Note the Ed.Kettner advertisement is an advertisement and the Wikepedia blurb doesn't differentiate between the Kettners.
Mike

Mike, of course I may be wrong! It's a little bit confusing with this family...!

Kind Regards,
Gunwolf

Gunwolf,
As I have shown before, I can also be wrong.Maybe Axel will weigh in.
Mike

Raimey will weight in and put us on the straight and narrow. It just is not possible for Ed. Kettner to have a factory. Now he may have had a factory storefront in Suhl, but that was for sourcing only. The burden of proof is on the individual who wants to find the non-Suhl Ed. Kettner mechanics who applied their initials to the sporting weapon. Actually they do not exist and the bulk of the work was sourced from Suhl and the minor tweaking of the end product or scope mounts might, might have been performed by a firearms merchant, but anything more was purely sourced for a gun making centre.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Sorry about my photo posting skills. Hopefully they will improve. If you can view the attached photo I think you will agree that Eduard was more than a retailer of other people's firearms. Best regards.
http://s163.photobucket.com/user/welderman_07/media/EKettnerFabrikSuhl_zpsa4eb2650.jpg.html

I certainly have no dog in this little difference of opinion, but I can see that the picture you want us to refer to is a drawing, not a photograph. There are many similar elaborate drawings of factories used in old ads. They could have used actual photographs, but they chose not to. Could have been a reason why they chose not to.

See:
1840
First American patent issued in photography to Alexander Wolcott for his camera.

See the previously mentioned German Gun Collectors Association publications Der Waffenschmied, issues #38 and 40. The Kettners are clarified for you. They were gun retailers, as stated above. There is a reference to a factory being opened in Suhl, but the reference was a fabrication and so stated. They were retailers only, ordering in custom built guns from other makers.

Posting pictures is pretty easy, you have the hard part done getting them into Photobucket.

To the right of the picture is a box with different addresses, pick the bottom one IMG and left click on the address, briefly it should say COPIED and then hit a CTRL and the letter C at the same time. When you want to insert it into a post hit ENTER so you clear your last sentence and hit CTRL and the letter V at the same time.

Thank you Oskar for your posting instructions. I'll try to show the barrel flats. Regardless of who made this gun, I'd still like to date it and learn more about it. I can take pretty good photos.

lc12,
The 16 ga has 65mm(2 1/2-2 9/16")chambers and both barrels are choked(likely pretty tightly) and I think it was made between 1912 and 1923.As usual, I could be wrong about the date.
Mike

Gentlemen,
I have digged out something on the Kettner History. For their centennial anniversary in 1984 there was written a story on their history by a well known german journalist and hunter, Walter Henkels (may be Mike has known him?).First they were traders, later owning two facilities in Suhl and Cologne (Cölln), after WW II they became traders again! Their own brand was "Rhenus" for guns and Drillings. The author described his first hunting experiences with a old Rhenus gun of his father.
I hope, those who are able to understand german can read the text in the images.
If not, I can send them per Mail on request.

BTW, the difference between the Kettners is written too.

Best regards,
Gunwolf