I recently purchased a gun for the 1st time, from C.WATSON'S ORANGE-COAST AUCTIONS that was described by them thusly; "Condition is excellent,and exhibiting only light marks from handling to stock, and small areas of micro-scratching to barrel". The gun arrived today and while I got a good buy on it; had I not I would have really been pissed. As it was, it was PUFFED MORE THAN GRASS, AT A GRATEFUL DEAD CONCERT. I FEEL THEIR DECRIPTIVE POWERS ARE A TOTAL SHAM! What's more, Accuracy does not enter into their vocabulary. What they described as micro scratches were in fact, the majority of bluing about 1/2 inch from the muzzle back missing, with numerous long scratches running up to an 1/8th. of an in. wide and 2 ins. long, along the top and underside of the barrel. The stock was covered in every conceivable type of bump, ding, nick, scratch, gouge, dent, and mar, known to gun owner and stockmaker. If I were selling this gun, I would grade it at no more than 80%. To sum it up did I get screwed, No... but did I get the gun they described HELL NO! The only thing that saved me was the price was good, but then with the on site bidders there to see it and with only one person bidding against me [on site] THAT MAYBE SAYS IT ALL! The thing to take away from this is Beware! Oh BTW if you're saying maybe I just had an unusual bad experience, I Googled them and one of the first hits I found was a Luger collector talking about them listing a fake Luger, soooooooooo CAVEAT EMPTOR with CAROL WATSON'S, IT WASN'T ELEMENTARY. HTH


Posted by Alvin Linden
Appearing on page 3 of this thread
Dated: Wed Jun 11 2014 05:48 PM


A little after 3:20p.m.EST,I received a call from Carol Watson herself, she started by saying she heard I was disappointed in the item I received, I detailed all the problems stated here including one omitted [the barrel was listed as excellent, but I received it so dirty you could hardly see lands and grooves differentiated,in it. How could they tell? I couldn't until it was cleaned [it took over an hour], and it was fine. SHE APOLOGIZED AND OFFERED A FULL REFUND INCLUDING FULL SHIPPING. I found her to be a very nice person, with an interest in making things right. I declined, and told her that I was going to put some money, into getting it brought up to their description. I TOLD HER THE PERSON DOING THE DESCRIPTION ON HER GUNS COULD NOT HAVE POSSIBLY SEEN THIS RIFLE, AND DESCRIBED IT AS SUCH! I strongly suggested she rethink the person in this job and maybe a person familiar with guns, was an improvement.

Just like my Grandfather advised- women "Carol" have no business dealing in a man's world- What in the Blue Bonnet Blazes does some femme have in selling firearms at an auction site anyway--Thanks for spreading the word, and I recently went through two counterfeited "Black Widow" P08 Lugers for a friend of mine who thought he hadn't lived until he owned a Luger--

Could you give us an item number in the auction so we can look at the picture of the gun you bought? I just scanned the entire auction for clues, and am not smart enough to ferret out the particular rifle. Thanks.

Fox.. just what are you saying here?, that guns & shooting, and the selling of firearms is only a mans world?..surely not, because that is pure bullshit mate.
How about the Fausti girls, or some lady trying to sell her dead hubby's guns?
"Carol" may be a shyster, but so is that dude Sly we all rag on for crap pics n descriptions
What do you mean by your post exactly?
Franc

I agree with Franc.

Another point, I have a male cousin named Carol. Baby boomer from Arkansas, names by a third generation Arkansas family. So Carol isn't necessarily a female.

Yes, your point is well taken. I had forgotten Carroll O'Connor (Archie Bunker)- so maybe this shyster gun dealer that almost scalped one of my favorite posters on this Forum thingy is really man- with a ladies name and if I may make so bold as to say- a piss-poor excuse for a man, who miss-represents the items he is trying to schlep-- Bad form indeed.

Eightbore: Well normally I have found that when I have asked that of others, I have gotten a resounding NO!, due to them not wanting anyone to know what they paid and the problems associated with a gun. However I feel that these people's transgressions are so egregious and serious, I most certainly will. The # is 155564. I have made contact with Roger regarding a "touch up" of the issues and am going to have them put right,in keeping with the gun's age. I contacted a fellow gun collector, who worked with me at the "Roads and Highway Dept." outside Washington D.C., in the photo intel section and ask him to look at the gun's photos. I asked how the photos could have hidden the defects? He ran a program on them and said they had been clearly manipulated, by a person to hide fine detail. As I said before be careful!

Can't seem to locate that item number.

We need the Lot #, not the serial number.

I believe this would be the gun, if you don't mind me posting this. I searched the serial and this seems to match your description. https://cwocauctions.proxibid.com/asp/Lo...del-70-BA-Rifle

bad form has many shapes...

Fox,
It shouldn't matter what sex the seller is...but you were talking about Women , & not very nicely either..not guys with chick names.. as in "Femmes" in your post.
Never mind about people with names that could be taken either way..why shouldn't women, by your "Blue bonnet blazzes" be able or allowed to sell or auction guns in your world...?
you still have not answered my question..?
Did.nt know Carrol O'Connor, but I believe I'm talking to a meat head here
Franc Otte

Franc, RWTF's views on women are regularly displayed here. I must say, every time he does, I'm surprised at his narrow view of what's appropriate. So now, I just sit back and chuckle about the life he would have his daughters and granddaughters live and how that fits with the lives they actually live. My guess is they love their Dad/Grampa but don't pay too much attention to him for advice and wisdom about being a successful woman in today's world.

But that's just a guess.

NO problem!

Guys: Personally as the father of two daughters [one an avid shooter],I want to go on the record to say that on more than one occasion Fox has bent over backwards to sell me items for my daughter's rifle(s) projects while others stood by and at more than generous prices, to help me get my daughter behind the trigger. While he may have said something, not "politically correct" [who hasn't?] and he's more tongue in cheek, than he cares to admit. What's sad, is his statement is also probably more in tune with a lot of dealers, than any of us care to admit. Anyway, isn't this about an unscrupulous Auction House? p.s. I tried their contact info just a while ago and it keeps failing due to excessive traffic...wonder why? HTH

one of my consignment customers and myself have purchased from Watson's auction house. so far so good. items have all been as advertised...

once again though, buying without a return option is a crap shoot. if you are not willing to take the risk of getting burned now and then, don't buy where you have no return privilege.

I am no expert, but I doubt that you could have the engraving done today for what you paid for that rifle.

That is not the point, I know, but it is a darned nice gun...

"tongue in cheek" implies humor - nothing funny in what he said. sometimes "politically incorrect" is actually wrong, too

dealers?! - yeah, let's cast a baseless insinuation on them, even though uninvolved, if it helps make the point. what was the point?

perhaps some of the descriptions used to open this thread could be seen as advantageously chosen to "sell" your point but probably not unscrupulous…if you truly had a problem with transaction, which you admit you don't, seems the right thing would be to attempt to resolve it with the other party BEFORE trashing them in a public forum

"...if you are not willing to take the risk of getting burned now and then, don't buy where you have no return privilege."


I agree, I am obviously willing to do that, I just felt people should know my experience, in case THEY weren't.


Jerry

I agree as well, that's what I felt was the redeeming factor in my purchase, along with the fact the deficits were cosmetic only. Jerry

so, they sold you a nice gun at a low price - can't let 'em get away with that

Y'all are forgetting that AL's complaint is the misleading description and photo's that have been tinkered with to give a false view of the gun. I'm pretty forgiving, but I'd be PO'd for the same reasons, the gun was misrepresented and he was lied too!

1.Your first point re "tongue in cheek" is not what was implied, which was "he was not to be taken seriously". It is however what you choose to infer, because you are obviously looking for an argument. I however, may surprise you by agreeing; things that are "politically incorrect" are seldom "right" in the broader sense of the word.

2.My comment involving dealers, stems from over 50 years in the gun business. I grew up in a gun store being the son of the owner and owned two eventually myself. My wonderful late mother,who did everything in the store but blue guns [she hated the odor] took a zillion calls from dealers, who when she tried to get specific info [as my Dad had asked]was 9 out of 10 times was told..."Just have your husband call me!" So I believe, although it may have been a sign of those times, my wife who has been involved in our business for over 30 years, would tell you it is still alive and well, although no more so than other industries.

3. I did not choose anything to "SELL" my point. I accurately and fairly reported, on one blog which I frequent; the FACTS as they occurred.
The reason I did not go to the Auction Company first was, I was after all these years aware, the auction house has a disclaimer that you agree to, releasing them of any responsibility. I saw no need, I was however going to send an email reporting my experience but the contact HOT BUTTON was busy with heavy traffic. In the interest of fairness, I want to report the following:

A little after 3:20p.m.EST,I received a call from Carol Watson herself, she started by saying she heard I was disappointed in the item I received, I detailed all the problems stated here including one omitted [the barrel was listed as excellent, but I received it so dirty you could hardly see lands and grooves differentiated,in it. How could they tell? I couldn't until it was cleaned [it took over an hour], and it was fine. SHE APOLOGIZED AND OFFERED A FULL REFUND INCLUDING FULL SHIPPING. I found her to be a very nice person, with an interest in making things right. I declined, and told her that I was going to put some money, into getting it brought up to their description. I TOLD HER THE PERSON DOING THE DESCRIPTION ON HER GUNS COULD NOT HAVE POSSIBLY SEEN THIS RIFLE, AND DESCRIBED IT AS SUCH! I strongly suggested she rethink the person in this job and maybe a person familiar with guns, was an improvement

4. I DID AND DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE GUN, I am just willing to spend MY MONEY INTO MAKING IT RIGHT, SOMETHING THAT I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO!. Always remember, had the gun been accurately described and pictured, the bidding was not as likely to have GONE THAT HIGH! THEY LIVE ON 17.5% OF FINAL PRICE!

5. I stated before I entered this listing, I GOOGLED them and this was not the First Time they had problems with GUN DESCRIPTIONS.
I did not trash them, I exposed THE TRASH. THEN I GAVE THEM CREDIT FOR THEIR ATTEMPT TO SWEEP IT UP.

I see you live in MAINE HOW IS JAMES D. JULIA DOING UP THERE?

Ed, I was checking some of your stuff on Gunsamerica...
What exactly is your return policy, it seems seems unclear..kinda like a crap shoot?..I reproduce it below...
((RETURN POLICY: Returns are handled on an individual basis. You can presume that I know what I am selling. You are expected to know what you are buying. All items are guaranteed to be as advertised. If I make a gross error in description, you may of course, return item with my apology. FEEDBACK: I am a licensed firearms dealer and have been a Gunsamerica seller since 1997...so, follow the rules and buy with confidence.))
As you don't allow people to view hands on,surely you should offer a firm 3 day return?..A Gross error could go either way..
franc

Thanks for the kind words, my Georgia friend.All my gals, including the wives, know enough about guns and guns safety, from me, to leave them alone. My late father never let me have a cap pistol or a Daisy BB gun, he taught me that you NEVER point any gun at anything you do not intend to kill stone cold dead-- and his boyhood chum lost his left eye at age 11 to a Daisy BB gun in a boyhood "Cowboys and Indians" game that went very bad.

I owe my 100% accident and ticket free (at age 72) driving record to my Dad, and also my strict gun safety habits and manners afield. If anyone wants to challenge me on the last statement, feel free to contact my friend and preserve hunting partner, Brad Bachelder- and ask him anything you wish about my gun manners--

None of my wives or my 3 daughters are interested in guns and hunting, but my oldest Granddaughter is- and when she turns 10, will start with the same Stevens .22 Walnut Hill single shot my late Granddad gave me in 1953- and go from there.

She may not turn out to be an Annie Oakley or a Mrs. Topperwein, but I will guaran-damn-tee you she will walk in the shadow of the poem I have memorized stone cold letter perfect- "If A sportsman/woman/person (whatever is PC here) true you'd be, listen carefully (son- grand-daughter, grand-son) to me- timeless wisdom which I will pass on to any of my grandchildren, regardless of their gender.

Ja-- what if "Herr Flamenwerfer"_ aka "Ed Da Torch" made a "Kleiner" error, and not a Grosser error- what then-- and who is the one that will be determining that error- I look for the coming day when schmucks like "The Torch" do the Herschel Chaddick escape route and get outta Dodge for good (pun intended here guys)--

franc & foxie: you and I will never do business, if I can avoid it, so what difference does it make?

Have we seen pics of the gun as received to back up his accusations?

I'm sorry if you think I was looking for a fight, I thought I was participating in a forum where ideas are exchanged (i.e. don't always agree). I don't agree with making broad generalizations about groups of people - what's the point? the comments were inappropriate no matter who else may or may not share them. However, I'll make "every conceivable" attempt to see your point of view on your opening post

based on many of the posts I see on this site I would guess anyone that sells that many guns, will have negative views available via Google. CWOCA has one more and it sounds like you've been treated very well. enjoy the rifle

Wild Skies, you make a good point. How about we see some photos of this bad boy warts and all?

No, I don't have photos and I don't need photos. Anybody with a scintilla of common sense, would know I am GETTING NOTHING out of spending my time, typing about paying good money and getting an inferior product. That is, except to warn others of the POTENTIAL PITFALLS IN BIDDING WITH THIS COMPANY. It is entirely up to you, what you do with this "accusation". I'm not asking anyone here to be a finder of fact, a judge or jury, I WAS SIMPLY TRYING TO DO EVERYONE A SOLID AND WARN THEM...NOTHING MORE...NOTHING LESS! If you believe I made this all up, and the gun I received is in fact mint, go ahead and buy that dream [fill in the blank] you've always wanted, for $25,000 from Carol Watson Auction. I HOPE IT TURNS OUT BETTER FOR YOU THAN IT DID FOR ME! The moral of this blog is, no good deed, goes unpunished. I will end this with the words, of old English barristers. "The affiant sayeth further not"

I have purchase guns from just about every auction company. Even from the same auction companies, the descriptions vary widely. I have also gotten the chingalay from just about everyone too. Some a little and some alot. Always the descriptions are a little less than what they say. I guess since they are handling some big volumes of guns at the auction, they can only spend so much time looking each gun over. If I am looking at any guns at auction, I always figure in a Fuc* factor.

John Boyd
Quality Arms
Houston TX

Ah the English! To paraphrase the immortal Bard, another Englishman, “The man doth protest too much, methinks…”

Yes, you need photos. Without them, we all (excepting RWTF of course) figure you're just another nut case.

I have bought from Carol Watson's twice. The first arrived in better condition than described. The second one will be delivered tomorrow and I fully expect the same. Why? Because I asked a few questions and asked for a couple more pics before the auction started. Kirt Keller answered the questions immediately and had additional pics e-mailed to me within a few minutes. I did my due diligence . . . maybe you should have, too.

has anyone bothered to read the Terms and Conditions for her auctions? Item 9 details a limited 20-day guarantee of the accuracy as to the item description

forget the photos, I don't doubt that you genuinely believe the gun was inaccurately described and I am reasonably confident that I would generally agree with you. As i have posted earlier, that of itself does not constitute a sham, that they were unscrupulous, or that the accuracy of all their descriptions are faulty. All of which you stated or implied in your post. There could be many reasons for inaccuracy and obviously they recognize that and therefore provided a method for the buyer to seek to have it made right. By buying from her you agree to her Terms and Conditions. You chose not to avail yourself or were not aware of item 9. instead you decided to warn the world of this 'unscrupulous' business without giving them the opportunity to display otherwise - as YOU agreed to. who's unscrupulous?

There have been few times I have purchased an older, hand made, English, Italian or Spanish gun (or new one for that matter) that did not need some work done, either immediately or within a short time after purchase. The exceptions, ironically, have been mass produced American guns. I will say that every time I did need to have some work done, the seller was always willing to either work with me on the issue, reduce the price, or to take it back, auctions excepted.

Anyone who has bought and sold a variety of guns for years on end knows this. So, get real.

Ed ,
I think it matters...just wanted to point out that buying from you, with your rather vague return policy, seems kinda crap shootish to me...Kinda goes against what you said about your personal view on return policies that you posted?, no?.
Whatever, but you really don't have to worry about Ed Good Appraisals/Guns & Gunsmithing in Francestown NH doing business with me..
Cheers
Franc

I was going through my posts, & I realised I had said nothing that really had anything to do with the OP,& got off on a tangent...
I apologize for that lads, & "Femmes"
Fox, sorry mate, but sometimes you drive me nuts, lol
Ed, I just plain don't like you
over n out
franc

well franc, ah kinda figured dat...so dats y ah don wana hav no dealins wid sum won who don lik me...you know watt ah mean?

like u no, if you was to buy a nice gon from me at a fair retail price...den yo ego might have a real problem wid yo id.

Ed, your spelling, grammar and syntax is really piss-poor, surprised at your reference to the late Sigmund Freud here-world is full of surprises, is it not??

Is that a drive, or a "gimme putt" Franc? And that's driving balls, not your nuts- those are only for you and the squirrels, n'ces pas mon Ami??

foxie: you strange,,,wood lik to have a few beers wid u...

have a feelin we wood git along.

Just received Winchester Winder Musket with Fecker scope from Carol Watson auction I couldn't be happier it was just as described and they only charged $21.00 to ship it from Calif. to Wisconsin.

OK- I like all the Leinie brews, Warsteiner, Hacker-Pschorr, Hofbrau, Guiness and St. Pauli Girl- but if you are buying, then I'll drink what you are drinking- Ain't America great!!

I had a boss named Carol, one of my favorites, learned alot from him. I've purchased several shotguns from Carol Watson, as expected. A Remington 30-S rifle was a little less than expected but still OK.

Well before I knew better from this board,I did try to buy a gun from you, but you are mail order only,& refused to let me view the gun, even though we live about an hour away, I offered to view it anywhere you cared to show it to me, but no deal.After looking at your return policy I'm sure I saved $80 on shipping fees to me n back.
You should read Uncle Remus if you want to talk like that...your shit makes no sense to me at all

Well before I knew better from this board,I did try to buy a gun from you, but you are mail order only,& refused to let me view the gun, even though we live about an hour away, I offered to view it anywhere you cared to show it to me, but no deal.After looking at your return policy I'm sure I saved $80 on shipping fees to me n back.
You should read Uncle Remus if you want to talk like that...your shit makes no sense to me at all

I think you are wrong Franc. More likely you would have been stuck with the gun like this ed customer says he was:

Our Friend Ed Did it Again

mikee: this post seems inappropriate...I mean, I have no affiliation with Watson auctions. I have never done business with you, nor would I knowingly ever do so...

your vindictive behavior here , for no apparent reason, is rather bazaar, and childish.

and franc, if we ever do business, which is doubtful, it will be on mutually agreed terms.

As is your alleged command of the English language.

replacement: alleged is a kind way of describing hit.

Franc stated that not buying that gun from you saved him from round trip shipping charges. I was pointing out to Franc that your return policy is very narrow, unclear, and that he probably would not have been able to return it. I gave him an example of a real word application of your return policy. The one when you refused to take back a loose gun from a buyer. My point being that Franc probably would not have been able to return the gun had he bought it from you and so the he would have only paid shipping charges one way.

Perhaps I wouldn't find you so annoying if you didn't continuously lecture us. Or maybe it is your constant self-aggrandizement. Or maybe it is the free-to-you constant promotion of your gun business on a hobby board. Maybe it is that you write most of your posts in a pre-war US Southern Negro dialect. Why you feel the need to mock those long-dead, poor, mistreated people God only knows. Perhaps you annoy me so because you have been kicked off of here four three times and when you come back you immediately start baiting and trolling again.

In reference to my low regard for your business practices in spite of your statement that we have never done business (are you sure of that) I repeat my Burnie Madoff analogy. I have never done business with Burnie Madoff. But should Obama pardon him and I was given the opportunity I still wouldn't do business with old Burnie.

If you find me childish and vindictive please feel free to report my posts to Dave or to block me.

EDIT: Correction - ed has been kicked off this BBS three times, not four as I wrote in my original post. I corrected it.

Actually, his name is Bernie- from Bernard-- And his surname is a free-form play on words, as he "Made Off" with others folks' money, a la Ponzi a few years before old Bernie came into play--

mikee: yet another bazaar post from you, full of misinformation, probabilities, erroneous assumptions and untruths...

is this where you get rid of your hostility? if so, hope it makes you feel better.

Speaking of hostility read through the first couple of pages of this thread.

Our Friend Ed Did it Again

Still waiting for the letter from your lawyer by the way.

We can stop this anytime you want.

that sounds fine to me.

Me too- all lawyers do is muck things up more, while lining their pockets in the meantime, and the worse are the Philadelphia breed- as Don Vito Corleone once said, as wisely- "One lawyer can steal more than 100 men with guns"---