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Posted By: Geo. Newbern Nukes - 09/24/13 03:47 PM
I think President Obama has just announced to the United Nations that he's directed Sec. State Kerry to politely interact with Iran on a mutually respectful basis their welcome into the group of Nuclear Nations!...Geo
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: Nukes - 09/24/13 03:49 PM
He might as well
Posted By: James M Re: Nukes - 09/24/13 04:17 PM
Why Not:
He's the same guy who's constantly after responsible law abiding firearms owners and blaming us for "gun related violence" but chooses to do nothing about the nut jobs with guns who are loose on our streets and should be institionalized. As we all know the end result has been devastating massacres.
IMO: There's no difference in this analogy in regards to Iran.
If Iran lets loose with a Nuke the Kenyan will probably blame it on the Israeli's!
Jim
Posted By: boneheaddoctor Re: Nukes - 09/24/13 04:45 PM
I'm waiting for the videos of the boot licking cerimony with Obama prostate licking the sand and camel crap off thier sandals.
Posted By: craigd Re: Nukes - 09/24/13 05:01 PM
That un address seemed to have a bunch of appeasement for the 'freedom fighters'. Truly difficult to follow a consistent foreign policy with this admin. I'd bet the rest of the world sees it as hope-n-change to their agendas.
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: Nukes - 09/24/13 05:26 PM
Let' see, that will make two muslim bombs, three commie bombs, one jewish bomb, the japanese bomb and three free world secular bombs, if france hasn't broken or misplaced theirs. Did I recollect that right? Duck and cover!...Geo

Ooops, forgot the hindu bomb.
Posted By: boneheaddoctor Re: Nukes - 09/24/13 05:51 PM
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
Let' see, that will make two muslim bombs, three commie bombs, one jewish bomb, the japanese bomb and three free world secular bombs, if france hasn't broken or misplaced theirs. Did I recollect that right? Duck and cover!...Geo


THe difference is most of them are run by misguided idiots.....where-as at least they aren't raving lunatics on a Jihad.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 09/24/13 05:57 PM
I thought he said that Iran had opened the possibility of discussions of mutual interest and mutual respect because Iran recently declared twice it has no interest in developing nuclear weapons.
Posted By: boneheaddoctor Re: Nukes - 09/24/13 05:59 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
I thought he said that Iran had opened the possibility of discussions of mutual interest and respect because Iran declared twice it has no interest in developing nuclear weapons.



They lie about everything else too.....why not this.
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: Nukes - 09/24/13 06:21 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
I thought he said that Iran had opened the possibility of discussions of mutual interest and mutual respect because Iran recently declared twice it has no interest in developing nuclear weapons.


King I'm pretty sure you are right about what he said. My comment reflected what I heard when he said it...Geo
Posted By: Bilious Bob Re: Nukes - 09/24/13 07:28 PM
The world's only ace in the hole in the Middle East is Israel.

If Ben believes Iran has a bomb ready to go, he'll take preemptive action.

And he won't phone Obama first.

Otherwise, can Washington spell "M-u-n-i-c-h"?
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 01:03 AM
The ace in the hole isn't Israel with or without a bomb, Bob, it's the US strategy to change the Middle East balance of power with a US-Iranian entente---without nukes, period. To get out from under surpassingly costly Israeli and Saudi influence in Washington, a temporary alliance with Iran could counterbalance Iran and Turkey, give Iran a leg up on the Arabs and allow US to withdraw from the mess. It would be an US alliance of convenience.

The Turks, with the largest economy in the region and arguably strongest army in Europe, could counterbalance Iran and Israel.The Arabian peninsula could come under Iranian influence. The US, now prostrate economically and worn-out militarily, said before it went into Iraq it could fight two major wars successfully at the same time on two continents. Obama kept out of Arab Spring and sees his legacy as a no-wars president using diplomacy as "the world's only ace in the hole" because no one can bomb their way out if this one. Methinks anyway.
Posted By: GaryW Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 02:44 AM
Obama is being played by Iran just as he was played by Putin because he is an incompetent amateur surrounded by equally incompetent a$$kissers. He did have time to host a round table at the WH concerning bisexual awareness; to address the needs of the bisexual community....it was not open to the public or the media. Another "transparent" presidential maneuver. These are the things that are important to him and he is still just a community organizer who happened to be elected president due to political correctiveness run amok in this country.

"the only words I speak to a liberal is 'large order of fries'"
Posted By: keith Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 06:22 AM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
The ace in the hole isn't Israel with or without a bomb, Bob, it's the US strategy to change the Middle East balance of power with a US-Iranian entente---without nukes, period. To get out from under surpassingly costly Israeli and Saudi influence in Washington, a temporary alliance with Iran could counterbalance Iran and Turkey, give Iran a leg up on the Arabs and allow US to withdraw from the mess. It would be an US alliance of convenience.


Do you post stuff like this intentionally so folks will think you've lost your mind? Obama is being played like a sock puppet by the Ayatollahs, and you see a brilliant statesman. But then, you only see what you want to see King.
Posted By: Dave K Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 12:20 PM
And he has also had to time order his lapdog John "I was for the war before I was against the war" Kerry to sign the UN Arms Treaty !

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/24/kerry-to-sign-un-arms-treaty-despite-senators-opposition/


Posted By: Bilious Bob Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 12:42 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
The ace in the hole ... the US strategy to change the Middle East balance of power with a US-Iranian entente---without nukes, period.


One must always keep in mind that the Canadian winter is never far away.

And that there isn't much to do for 9 months out of the year.

Except drink.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 12:43 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
The US, now prostrate economically and worn-out militarily,


Our economy is gone because of big Government.

Our Military is "worn-out" because the radicals let women and queers in our Military.

How can you expect to have a strong Military when it's run by queers and women ?


Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 02:52 PM
Which isn't such a bad idea if you own an award-winning vineyard, which I do!
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 03:10 PM
C'mon, Joe. There's nothing wrong with the men and women who serve and sacrifice. Politicians wear them down with endless overseas ventures to rid all evil from the world. A neighbour, Capt. Nicole Goddard, had her head blown off by an RPG directing fire against the Taliban. Our women serve as do others of different sexual orientation. I haven't heard anyone say Canadians aren't good to have around in a fight. Nor Americans, Brits, Turks, Poles, Germans and---you know the rest.
Posted By: craigd Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 03:49 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
The ace in the hole isn't Israel with or without a bomb, Bob, it's the US strategy to change the Middle East balance of power with a US-Iranian entente---without nukes, period. To get out from under surpassingly costly Israeli and Saudi influence in Washington....


Maybe not an ace in the hole, but one card that's being played is cair. If you're thinking wtf, you'd be right, it's their new name. Membership way down but operational budget way up, seems they're much more transparent about their middle eastern funding than the administration is about targeting US citizens.

So what, well cair has hundreds of sit down meetings with the current folks in office and justice just cleared cair to 'work' with the fbi. One would think this type of accommodation fits well with the ideology of say the intel director and islamic gun control.

Hey, on a brighter note, bo gets snubbed three requests in a row by the iranians for a little mutual respect and kumbaya. Sure, puppeteering an ace in the hole is delicate stuff, but no photo op?, wonder who's in charge....
Posted By: James M Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 04:27 PM
Woman soldiers?
Yep: I'd agree as long as they're on the oppositions side! eek smirk
Jim




http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/videos/ch...e-training.html
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 04:58 PM
No one's in charge, Craig. Dozens of regional and global interests are in play but no one has a trump card. My guess is the Turks will become the dominant regional power, and US will have to stickhandle warily because of Islamic gains on secularism. Putin didn't throw that lifeline because he loved Obama. The Turks, casting their eyes southward, don't want to be dependent on Russia's energy. The Iranians will have their hands full with Turkey. It's the old game. We don't know the half of it, as Wikileaks proves to us again and again
Posted By: craigd Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 07:01 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
....no one has a trump card. My guess is the Turks will become the dominant regional power, and US will have to stickhandle warily....

....The Turks, casting their eyes southward, don't want to be dependent on Russia's energy. The Iranians will have their hands full with Turkey. It's the old game....


Interesting possibilities. It does though seem like the shady cave dweller with a vest bomb or AK and a mall, has more world influence than a conventional military. I'd also question if Turkey couldn't somehow or another come up with their own energy.

Seems like if the money is followed, qatar wants to be a big dog in the region. As mentioned, cair gets hundreds of audiences with the current folks and policy reflects it. I wonder if aj America becomes a player when propaganda needs to be released on Sundays for the talking point of the coming week.
Posted By: RyanF Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 07:49 PM
Geo,

You forgot the South African nuke.

Cheers.
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 08:44 PM
Originally Posted By: RyanF
Geo,

You forgot the South African nuke.

Cheers.


Cheers indeed!...Geo
Posted By: boneheaddoctor Re: Nukes - 09/25/13 10:05 PM
The Mexicans have their own.....a Double bean burrito with onions.
Posted By: Dave K Re: Nukes - 09/29/13 12:05 AM
Wanna bet ??

http://nypost.com/2013/09/28/no-2-us-nuke-commander-suspended-amid-probe/

"WASHINGTON — The No. 2 officer at the military command in charge of all U.S. nuclear war-fighting forces has been suspended and is under investigation by the Naval Criminal Investigation Service for issues related to gambling, officials said Saturday."
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Nukes - 09/29/13 06:50 PM
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
I think President Obama has just announced to the United Nations that he's directed Sec. State Kerry to politely interact with Iran on a mutually respectful basis their welcome into the group of Nuclear Nations!...Geo


Our country should "get into bed" with the Iranians. They have plenty of energy to sell and their population is young full of love for American way of life. Let's face it our current policy in Middle East hasn't worked and will never work.
Posted By: Bilious Bob Re: Nukes - 09/29/13 08:00 PM
I agree.

Except for the bed part.

Pull the heck out. And let them sell their damn oil to Europe.

We now have more than they do!
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: Nukes - 09/29/13 08:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Dave K
Wanna bet??


Dave, if you want to bet me $1.00 (gentlemen's bet) that Iran does not posess a nuke by the end of President Obama's lame duck term, you're on...Geo
Posted By: Dave K Re: Nukes - 09/29/13 08:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
Originally Posted By: Dave K
Wanna bet??


Dave, if you want to bet me $1.00 (gentlemen's bet) that Iran does not posess a nuke by the end of President Obama's lame duck term, you're on...Geo


George,
the "wanna bet" was referring to gambling problem the head of nuclear command has,I agree that Iran will have that nuke sooner then we think.

http://nypost.com/2013/09/28/no-2-us-nuke-commander-suspended-amid-probe/

"WASHINGTON — The No. 2 officer at the military command in charge of all U.S. nuclear war-fighting forces has been suspended and is under investigation by the Naval Criminal Investigation Service for issues related to gambling, officials said Saturday."

Obama-and his "Muslim faith" has no reason to prevent Iran from getting its weapon grade uranium in missiles.The only one that can stop them is Israel.

BTW, great column by Peg Noonan(not a conservative)in last weeks WSJ re the "lame duck" President
A Small President on the World Stage
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303342104579099623833385780.html?mod=hp_opinion

The second takeaway of the week has to do with a continued decline in admiration for the American president. Barack Obama's reputation among his fellow international players has deflated, his stature almost collapsed. In diplomatic circles, attitudes toward his leadership have been declining for some time, but this week you could hear the disappointment, and something more dangerous: the sense that he is no longer, perhaps, all that relevant.

The president spoke of Iran and nuclear weapons—"we should be able to achieve a resolution" of the question. "We are encouraged" by signs of a more moderate course. "I am directing John Kerry to pursue this effort."

But his spokesmen had suggested the possibility of a brief meeting or handshake between Messrs. Obama and Rouhani. When that didn't happen there was a sense the American president had been snubbed. For all the world to see.

Which, if you are an American, is embarrassing'
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 09/30/13 01:08 AM
Dave, the US and allies have been back-channeling this "Iran opening" for years, before Rouhani's election, right down to every gesture. Neither could be pally without big blowback for Obama, and Rouhani with Republican Guard.
Posted By: craigd Re: Nukes - 09/30/13 03:10 AM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
....the US and allies have been back-channeling this "Iran opening" for years, before Rouhani's election, right down to every gesture. Neither could be pally without big blowback for Obama, and Rouhani with Republican Guard.


Who's in charge here King. Does 'back-channeling for years' mean, we don't have the will to stop the iranian nuclear weapons program, and we're going to give them plenty of time to develop it. Seems like a win/win for the iranians and the iranians. What's in it for the US and it's seemingly nonexistent allies, maybe iran turns the screws on turkey and gets them to kick the US out and loose our base there.
Posted By: keith Re: Nukes - 09/30/13 05:35 AM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
Dave, the US and allies have been back-channeling this "Iran opening" for years, before Rouhani's election, right down to every gesture. Neither could be pally without big blowback for Obama, and Rouhani with Republican Guard.


The same "back-channeling" with North Korea bought enough time for that starving country to build nuclear weapons. Bush wanted tougher sanctions and liberals wanted Kumbaya and food, medical, and energy assistance for the North Koreans. Too many liberals never learn from history. No matter though because they are adept at refusing to accept blame.
Posted By: Jagermeister Re: Nukes - 09/30/13 02:11 PM
Engaging Iranians in face to face talks could be beneficial. Lets face it over the years our middle eastern policy has gained us next to nothing. Something is better then NOTHING.
Posted By: Bilious Bob Re: Nukes - 09/30/13 03:11 PM
Originally Posted By: Jagermeister
Engaging Iranians in face to face talks could be beneficial. Lets face it over the years our middle eastern policy has gained us next to nothing. Something is better then NOTHING.


Since at least the first crusades in 1095, the Middle East has been a hell hole.

Nothing works. Nothing is ever solved.

And nothing will ever prevent these muslim SOBs from killing eachother.

Our only job is to get their cheap oil, and keep them from killing US.

Now that's something!
Posted By: James M Re: Nukes - 09/30/13 03:58 PM
I have to agree with BB here. Muslims are like warts on a donkey's ass.
Jim
Posted By: keith Re: Nukes - 10/01/13 04:46 AM
Originally Posted By: Jagermeister
Engaging Iranians in face to face talks could be beneficial. Lets face it over the years our middle eastern policy has gained us next to nothing. Something is better then NOTHING.


The "something" we have gotten by screwing around with Iran is 18,000 uranium enrichment centrifuges merrily spinning ther way closer to a nuclear weapon. At the same time, their self proclaimed peaceful nuclear energy program has dug deeper into the ground. Conventional bunker buster bombs may already be ineffective.

In addition, the Iranian Arak heavy water reactor may be capable of producing two bombs worth of weapons grade plutionium by next summer.
http://www.jpost.com/Iranian-Threat/News...t-summer-322093

But those with lust for Barack the Magic Negro will still insist that he has garnered more international respect and that he is a foreign policy genius. You can't fix stupid.
Posted By: Dave K Re: Nukes - 10/01/13 11:03 AM
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/01/13 10:02 PM
No one's in charge, Craig. The will to stop the program is there. The "how" to do it without setting off a major war is the issue. The US has provided the world with irrefutable evidence that even the most powerful military has its limits.
Posted By: craigd Re: Nukes - 10/01/13 10:45 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
No one's in charge, Craig. The will to stop the program is there. The "how" to do it without setting off a major war is the issue. The US has provided the world with irrefutable evidence that even the most powerful military has its limits.


I can appreciate this King, It just doesn't seem to reconcile with 'back-channeling right down to every gesture'.

I think you're mistaken about the 'will' to prevail. Hopefully, the world never sees what the worlds most powerful military could unleash, but it's clear the will to use that stick just is not there.

Do you think the US's current foreign policy might mirror social justice. Seems like disarmament and apologizing for battlefield success are mandatory. Maybe there're some who want the US to have a little equality with the less fortunate, and nuke proliferation is one way to level the field.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/01/13 11:54 PM
No one's foreign policy mirrors social justice. Countries put first their national interests. Rarely if ever does social justice comes first, for all the spin put on it.

As for the will to contain nuclear proliferation, none of the the major powers want Iran to have them. Islamic Pakistan's nukes are more dangerous.
Posted By: canvasback Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 12:54 AM
Coming into this discussion a bit late but it is utterly clear that the USA does NOT have the will to stop the Iranian nuke program. Didn't have it for North Korea and don't have it now. Any other interpretation of the facts requires a willful ignorance.

And let's be clear, they didn't want France or England to have them and they really didn't want India and Pakistan to have them. And in no case has AMERICA had the will to ensure those countries did not have them.

Now that's not to say a large minority or perhaps even a majority of Americans wish their government had behaved differently or would behave differently with respect to Iran. But that IS what your governments have done. or not done as the case may be.

King suggesting otherwise is incorrect, regardless of the reasons put forth. "The "how" to do it without setting off a major war is the issue."

That is precisely the point of either having or not having the "will". You accept and deal with the fallout of your actions or you don't act because you are too fearful of what the fallout will be. You can't sugarcoat it.
Posted By: keith Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 02:46 AM
Originally Posted By: canvasback
Coming into this discussion a bit late but it is utterly clear that the USA does NOT have the will to stop the Iranian nuke program. Didn't have it for North Korea and don't have it now. Any other interpretation of the facts requires a willful ignorance.


Three cheers for at least one voice of reason coming from Canada!

Earlier this evening, I heard a replay of the speech Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu made concerning zero tolerance for Iran ever getting nukes. He made it abundantly clear that Israel will act, alone if necessary, to stop it. He also made it clear that if Israel were forced to act alone, their response to the Iranian threat would save not only Israeli lives, but countless other lives as well.

After the replay, a comment was made comparing Netanyahu to Winston Churchill, and comparing Obama to Neville Chaimberlain. I thought that was very insulting to Neville Chaimberlain. How very sad that the Commander/Golfer-in- Chief of the most powerful military in the world is content to let tiny Israel save us all from the most dangerously radical Islamists on the planet.

King suggests that Pakistan with nukes is a far greater threat than Iran with nukes, yet Pakistan has never threatened to wipe Israel off of the map or destroy the Great Satan, the U.S.A.--- Pakistan does not see igniting Armageddon as the tool to usher in the return of the Great Mahdi. How utterly stupid!

What do you say about someone so ignorant of history and the whims of ruthless evil dictators? If it comes from a 16 year old kid with scant knowledge and a very limited worldview, you could call him naively ignorant. But when the same comes from a well travelled and educated 80+ year old man who has lived to see Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Tojo, Lenin, Pol Pot, Hussein, Amin, etc. who have killed perhaps hundreds of millions without nukes, you have to question his intelligence and sanity.

*Addendum after seeing Kings post below: In Re., Will and Ability... Obama has the ABILITY to lobby Congress to pass bills to continue paying our military men after the Gov't shutdown, but he only has the WILL to continue funding the entitlement crowd and protect his Leftist agenda. Easy to see where his priorities are.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 03:06 AM
Will and ability to change things are different, James. An analogy may be the English and French meanings for competence: in English the brains and desire to do something, in French the capacity and the wherewithal to do it. Or perhaps the 60s Missile Crisis: the US forcing a blockade with warships and USSR forcing removal of US missiles from Turkey (conveniently kept from the American public). Both countries had the capacity of mutually assured destruction but neither were foolish enough to use it. The current US "will" is entente with Iran to change the regional balance of power. The US assisted India and Muslim Pakistan. Your message implies to me that the US hasn't the will to push the button. Not hard to see why when it couldn't do anything with North Korea and its big friends.
Posted By: canvasback Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 03:28 AM
King, perhaps our difference lies in your choice of word. "Will". And while I tend to write quickly, with little research for each post to back up my statements, I am very mindful of my choice of words. I believe words to be the most powerful weapon in our arsenals. And the English language to be the most powerful arsenal of language available to us. You mention the difference between the French and English definition of competence. With close to 10 times the sheer number of words, I tend to imagine the English version will have the finer, more accurate edge to it.

"Will", in this application, is not competence nor is it ability or wishes. It is the determination to see a course of action through to its end. I am fine with a reasoned choice that suggests another course of action i.e Bay of Pigs or Turkey. But that's not "will" as we all understand the term in this usage.

Netanyahu has indicated verbally Israel has the will. We will have to wait and see if they actually do but it's my suspicion old Ben isn't fooling. Their past actions in any number of circumstances suggest they do have the "will". And if those events come to pass then Israel, and the rest of us will have to deal with the fallout, good or bad.

"Will" isn't the capacity, wherewithal, brains or desire. It is the determination to see something through. It is to actually do something rather than talk, posture or threaten. The back channels you mention tend to be good at talking, posturing and threatening. Not so good at doing.

If you read and understand the significance of my signature line, you will know I value action and accomplishment over all else. This discussion of "will" plays directly into that outlook. I can talk a good game but it's what one does that counts. But I also like your's as quoted by George N. ...."shop less and shoot more" or something like that.

Posted By: keith Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 03:39 AM
Canvasback, I think he meant "think less and shoot your mouth off more". That's what I'm seeing.
Posted By: canvasback Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 03:45 AM
Two things. First, I know it's small but just realized I have past the 1000 post mark. Yippee!!

Second, America, with "will" and determination, could bomb the crap out of Iran and even use nukes to utterly destroy any capability Iran has to create those bombs and no one, I repeat no one, like Russia, is coming to help Iran. Rats fleeing the ship in the face of strength and determination. America's problem since Korea, IMHO, has been to handicap herself, as though limited engagements will serve the purpose.

The Nobel Peace Prize winning strategy of Canada's own Lester Pearson, of peacekeeping efforts by the UN, has proven an abject failure in the long run. How's it working out in Cypress? What is required to end hostilities is a clear winner and a clear loser. A ceasing of hostilities may save lives in the short term but dooms the participants to generations of further hostilities. Look at the Balkans.
Posted By: canvasback Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 03:52 AM
Keith, sometimes I get the feeling that when you aren't working your 14 hours days, you are only on line with us here. Pease tell me you sleep sometimes.
Posted By: keith Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 04:06 AM
I only did 13 hours today (14 1/2 yesterday though) and I'm telling myself that I'll be in bed by 12:30 since I have to be up at 5:45 AM, but it's not looking good. Actually, I have been spending little time here because I'm spending most of my free time working on projects before the snow flies and hunting season comes. Not enough hours in the day!

P.S.: Congrats on passing 1000 posts, but be warned... King has over 4800 which is proof that more isn't always better!
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 12:26 PM
Your post helps me to understand your position. For sure Israel has the will but you may also be sure Netanyahu has been told the US will not clean up the mess as he expects it to do.

"Determination to see something through" by itself isn't enough. Okay for Grenada, Panama and the Philipines but not for adventures where other sides with powerful friends want it more than we do.

Unless you agreed with Curtis LeMay in Vietnam and Douglas MacArthur in Korea. Both were set straight by the White House. Few places are more volatile to set something off than the Middle East.

Obama lusts for a no-war legacy, to bring the troops home, get his country on its feet financially and socially, to hell with US solving all the world's problems, bleeding its best and treasury. That's my take; others can have theirs.

A late Postscript: the USA didn't emanate as a virginal nation under the hand of God. It arrived from competing interests of England, Spain and France. Sort of like the current violence and old empire interests in the Middle East, eh? A remnant. And if you'll accommodate a speck of birthplace chauvinism, it was Nova Scotia that brought freedom of the press and responsible government to British North American colonies. A newspaperman did it.



Posted By: boneheaddoctor Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 03:06 PM
Obama is mentally ill....he views himself like some greek god...when in reality he's just another smooth talking idiot thats gotten himself into a mess he can't talk himself out of. And more and more people that fell for his bullshit the first time are waking up to see the mistake they made.
Posted By: craigd Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 03:07 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
....Douglas MacArthur in Korea. Both were set straight by the White House. Few places are more volatile to set something off than the Middle East.

Obama lusts for a no-war legacy, to bring the troops home, get his country on its feet financially and socially, to hell with US solving all the world's problems, bleeding its best and treasury. That's my take; others can have theirs.


You left out Italy's distinct contribution to the culinary world. I wonder how long the party will last before someone has to turn off the music and clean up the mess.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 04:59 PM
I think it must be efficient-or-something municipal governments that keep Italy a delight to visit. It's not the federal government. The country's governance is a mystery to me.
Posted By: boneheaddoctor Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 05:29 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
I think it must be efficient-or-something municipal governments that keep Italy a delight to visit. It's not the federal government. The country's governance is a mystery to me.
THere is nothing efficient about Italian Government.....trust me...

Its all practically like a circus...

Speaking as someone who lived and worked there for 6 years.....and has spent a month a year for most of the last 22 years there.


My father-in-law retired from their Dept of Justice....my Sister-in-law works there now....my wife worked there part tim in her youth....and one of her cousins was a Mayor, and an uncle was a Chief of police for an entire Province.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 05:48 PM
There must be something going on in municipalities to keep them reasonably tidy and generally peaceful and a pleasure to visit. To visit, I said earlier.

The bureaucracy is a circus, a phantasmagoria as you say, almost impossible to penetrate. So what makes it a pleasure to visit? Half-decent town and city councils?
Posted By: craigd Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 05:57 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
There must be something going on in municipalities to keep them reasonably tidy and generally peaceful and a pleasure to visit. To visit, I said earlier.

The bureaucracy is a circus, a phantasmagoria as you say, almost impossible to penetrate. So what makes it a pleasure to visit? Half-decent town and city councils?


Good point. I'd never think it would be the people, settings, culture or traditions. We must always look to government to define and dictate the pleasures we are entitled to.
Posted By: boneheaddoctor Re: Nukes - 10/02/13 06:46 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
There must be something going on in municipalities to keep them reasonably tidy and generally peaceful and a pleasure to visit. To visit, I said earlier.

The bureaucracy is a circus, a phantasmagoria as you say, almost impossible to penetrate. So what makes it a pleasure to visit? Half-decent town and city councils?


Local governments are even wors than the national entities....

I don't know what part of Italy you think of as tidy....its a pretty gritty place as far as I'm concerened. Doesn't mean I dislike it...juts tidy and clean is never mentioned in the same breath as Italy. Unlike much of Germany for example.

Don't rely on movies....they clean up things in the filming area prior to filming for example....

I've seen many things on film I've seen in person....and had to ask my wife when did they fim that...because I never saw it that clean before.
Posted By: keith Re: Nukes - 10/03/13 04:04 AM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
Your post helps me to understand your position. For sure Israel has the will but you may also be sure Netanyahu has been told the US will not clean up the mess as he expects it to do.

Obama lusts for a no-war legacy, to bring the troops home, get his country on its feet financially and socially, to hell with US solving all the world's problems, bleeding its best and treasury.

And if you'll accommodate a speck of birthplace chauvinism, it was Nova Scotia that brought freedom of the press and responsible government to British North American colonies. A newspaperman did it.


I do believe King's first statement here. It has become quite clear that Obama does not have the same affection or appreciation for our only real allies in the Middle East as any of his predecessors did.

You have to be delusional or insane to think that a president who refuses to negotiate even a nickel of a budget with a $1.5 trillion annual deficit has any interest in getting the country on its' feet financially... or socially. The social fallout will come through inevitable inflation which will make the poor even poorer. Obama is projected to add well over $12 trillion to our national debt. The burden will fall most heavily on our kids. There is no such thing as a free lunch. An immutable law of finance is that all debt is paid... by someone.

As per the newspaperman who brought freedom of the press and responsible government to the British Colonies... one can only imagine how horrendous that would have turned out if Burger King or most of his liberal press cohorts ruled the roost back then.

Posted By: canvasback Re: Nukes - 10/03/13 05:48 PM
King, some might think we are discussing semantics about the use of the word "will" but I do not believe that to be true.

I am not arguing for one second what the fallout of the US acting to destroy Iran's potential nuclear capability might be. Why they may or may not act. Nor am I arguing about what may happen if Israel did it. I am not arguing about back channel discussions that may or may not have taken place between any of the interested parties.

I am simply stating what should be obvious.

There is a difference between having the will to act and wishing to act but feeling constrained for whatever reason. The US has unarguably felt restrained from taking decisive action to stop other countries from gaining a nuclear capability. It doesn't matter whether that has been an internal reason (attitude of populace/political fallout) or external reason (foes and allies being dismayed and feeling forced to respond in some fashion).

To suggest the US has the "will" to stop Iran, or in the past tense, Korea, India, Pakistan etc., is just not factual. If they did, they would have. They haven't had the stomach for the fallout of such action.

THAT MEANS THEY HAVEN'T HAD THE WILL.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/03/13 09:03 PM
My wife and I spend a fair amount of time in Italy. I'm writing a book on the Canadian campaign in the Liri Valley leading to Rome, and my wife's 10 large paintings of the campaign will be exhibited by the Beaverbrook Art Gallery in Fredericton next year. Lord Beaverbrook started the war artists program in WW1.

South of Naples gets gritty in places but much improved over five or 10 years ago. Last year we spent three weeks in Puglia on the east coast mostly from the heel to the toe, allegedly Mafia country, poor and uninviting. Can't speak about the Mafia but it was beautiful and tidier than most places in North America.

If it's not local or federal governments, who makes it look good? It's probably all you say about corruption and bad government but it's still a mystery to me that it works so well for visitors. For authentic warmth and generosity in all of Europe, I don't think there's a better place than Italy.

As an aside, I said to Nancy years ago, Why are people so good to us? Is it because we're old (in our late 50s at the time). She said, No, it's because we are polite. On a whimsical note, black and white gets boring. Maybe it's the mystery that keeps us going back!

Regards, King
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/03/13 09:13 PM
Now I understand your position. Yes, the US reasoned the fallout would outweigh any advantage to the American people. Russia reasoned similarly and threw Obama a lifeline. They didn't have the will to risk Armageddon. My guess is the terrorists tore their hair out and the world sighed with relief.
Posted By: keith Re: Nukes - 10/03/13 09:30 PM
Unless you are stupid, and naive, and extremely short-sighted, one can see that the greatest risk to Armageddon in the Middle East is a radical Islamist Iran with nukes.

The centrifuges are still spinning, Arak is still under construction, and Syria is probably busy hiding part of it's chemical stockpiles before U.N. Inspectors can see them. Iran and Syria are breathing a sigh of relief because we still have a weak willed Barack Hussein Obama in the White House, and they can continue on their same path. Fools are also breathing a sigh of relief. But no one who has learned anything from history is breathing easier.
Posted By: craigd Re: Nukes - 10/03/13 10:36 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
....the US reasoned the fallout would outweigh any advantage to the American people. Russia reasoned similarly and threw Obama a lifeline. They didn't have the will to risk Armageddon. My guess is the terrorists tore their hair out and the world sighed with relief.


I like your lifeline repetition. Didn't putin say a day or two after he saved the US, that he really can't confirm if all syrian chemical weapons will be turned over or destroyed. Maybe you could call some of you media colleagues and ask them to hold bo accountable for the poor enforcement of his red line.

I also think you may be guessing wrong. The terrorists and putin can rest easy that there will be no disruption with their arms supply deals. And the left sighed with relief.

On a side note, good for you and Mrs. Brown on the painting showing and your book.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 12:51 AM
No one knows how it will turn out, Craig. Some here would rush in with all guns blazing, as we did with awful consequences recently in the Middle East, while the major world powers say proceed with caution.

There's Pakistan, the shaky Islamist country with nukes which hid Osama bin Ladin from us, and Iran, a religiously different country from Arab and non-Arab countries which may or may not be building a bomb.

To keep nukes in their silos and clip the influence of Israel and Saudi Arabia from jerking US strings and draining Fort Knox, the US is trying to engage Iran in some sort of entente to change the regional balance of power.

No place for hair triggers or hare brains.
Posted By: keith Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 03:41 AM
Why does this hare brained Canadian see a need to clip the influence of Israel and substitute Iran, a known sponsor of terrorism?

Obama's brilliant changes to the balance of power in the Middle East have been to strengthen and embolden Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and the Muslim Brotherhood, while pushing our only true allies, the Israelis, aside by insulting and snubbing Netanyahu.

There's little doubt that Islamic "factions" in Pakistan hid bin Ladin, but Pakistan still isn't a known sponsor of terrorism who have threatened the destruction of Israel and the Great Satan, the U.S.A., as Iran has.

You really have to have your head up your ass to think Iran may not be really building a nuke. They could have had crushing sanctions lifted a decade ago if they had nothing to hide and merely allowed International Inspectors to verify peaceful intent.

A past or present journalist who steadfastly ignores the truth is both incompetent and shameful. Any historical book he might write would be very questionable as far as being factual.
Posted By: craigd Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 03:39 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
No one knows how it will turn out....

There's Pakistan, the shaky Islamist country with nukes....

....the US is trying to engage Iran in some sort of entente to change the regional balance of power.

No place for hair triggers or hare brains.


Maybe, you just told us how it turns out. Aren't you saying that we end up with another shaky nuclear power. Do the iranians become coequals in the region, world.

If we're 'trying to engage', what happens if it doesn't work out. Or, more importantly if you get your change, does the flaunting of the balance of power hinge on a handshake or some piece of paper.

Is your entente between the US and iran, or do the regional neighbours have any say, except for Israel and the saudis. To shift the balance of power, why shouldn't US just give iran a few old nukes and the plans for some precision short range delivery system.

Does it concern you to demonize, sorry to snip that part out, friends and accommodate enemies. Are there any consequences to inaction or ineffective action. Why is there a assumption that the US risks acting with a hair trigger, and that a nuclear iran would be responsible. Is syria and chemical weapons a good example of the US putting the genie back in the bottle.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 04:42 PM
Thanks for your views, Craig. The US try at entente has nothing to do with me; it's been going on for years by the US administration. I'm not saying the US will succeed or the world end up with another nuclear power. No one can possibly know how it will turn out. Nothing is safe or certain.

Israel and the Saudis are not happy, as indicated in our mainstream media. But google Israeli public opinion as expressed in Israeli newspapers. Israel is divided on the issue as your country and mine. Canada is moderating its pro-Israel position to nearer that of the United States.

There's a tiny minority here that would love to see bombs falling in violation of international law in spite of the cautionary strategy of the major powers, east and west, our allies and China and Russia. This minority knows what's best for us. It's in no position to pull any strings, hair-trigger or otherwise.

World opinion is the other way entirely.
Posted By: keith Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 05:11 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
There's a tiny minority here that would love to see bombs falling in violation of international law in spite of the cautionary strategy of the major powers, east and west, our allies and China and Russia. This minority knows what's best for us. It's in no position to pull any strings, hair-trigger or otherwise.

World opinion is the other way entirely.


King, there's another lie. The only "tiny minority" is you and Jaegermeister who both think that engaging the Iranians with diplomacy would be productive. Opinion of Security Council members China and Russia are almost universally on the opposite side of U.S. and Western interests. Most people with a brain, here and abroad, can see that Obama is being played by the Iranians... and can also see that his foreign policy has been a big failure, other than those things which were merely a continuation of Bush policies, i.e., the surge, the hunt for bin Ladin, the drone program to exterminate Al Qeada leadership, etc.

For God's sake craigd, ed, or canvasback, please say something... anything... so that Burger King can indirectly answer me through you! He's still pretending to ignore me after I busted him in all his lies. whistle
Posted By: craigd Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 05:24 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
Thanks for your views, Craig. The US try at entente has nothing to do with me....


Of course not King, but doesn't the mindset elect decision makers. Decision makers who have no answers, but tell us don't worry about it, all's well.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 08:05 PM
"We" are the people, Craig, and in my neck of the woods we direct provincial policy, just as we lobbied to get rid of the gun registry. We're in the midst of a provincial election, and here's our op-ed in Saturday's provincial newspaper of record, as I mentioned earlier. We don't ask, we don't wait for crumbs to fall like charity from government and industry. They come to us because we own the land. Without responsible activism, we deserve what we get.


"Nova Scotia fell from leader to laggard in the Maritimes by not sticking it to political leaders and their acolytes arriving on our doorsteps promising solutions to seemingly intractable problems if elected. We should be telling them their earnestness means nothing without citizens being involved actively in solving their own problems. It’s perfectly stupid to think politicians have all the answers. It’s time to turn governance on its head.

"Here’s proof it can be done. Nova Scotia is becoming the greenest forest constituency in the world because woodlot owners in eastern Nova Scotia persuaded the government to adopt its acclaimed sustainability program to meet its forestry objectives. The Province said it was “the only solution” for sustainable forests and financially sustainable programs after reviewing 600-plus recommendations and an expert panel that fell apart in acrimonious debate. The Province and federal government through Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation are joining as partners. The mills and Nova Scotia Power are lining up to contribute.

"Next month the Nova Scotia Landowners and Forest Fibre Producers Association (NSLFFPA) anticipates signing a contract with the Province to take over Cape Breton Island private lands management---silviculture, sustainable certification, monitoring, extension, roads etc as a one-stop service--- in a voluntary pilot program with North Inverness Forest Management and Baddeck Valley Wood Producers as equal partners. The Province plans to extend similar regional landowner-directed programs across the province once the kinks are worked out on Cape Breton Island, possibly within 18 months.

"Next May the international Rainforest Alliance will give global recognition to the Association by awarding it the prestigious Sustainable Standard-Setter Award, the only one given each year globally to a community-based organization, for its “vision to make sustainability a priority and the dynamism to make it a reality. Its continued success protecting both the environment and the interests of woodlot owners has made the NSLFFPA a sterling example to the industry”

"All achievements of the spirit without top-down bureaucratic or technocratic interference, and a radical institutional change in governance from simple application of demonstrated cooperation, competence and imagination. Imagine the dividends of applying the formula to health care!

"Kingsley Brown is an Antigonish County woodlot owner and sustainability coordinator of the Nova Scotia Landowners and Forest Fibre Producers Association."

(I'll be wearing my formal Highland dress, clan Lamont, at the big gala presentations at the American Museum of Natural History in NYC next May. Maybe I'll see you there!)
Posted By: Bilious Bob Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 08:14 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
"(I'll be wearing my formal Highland dress, clan Lamont, ... in NYC next May. Maybe I'll see you there!)


First, all good and true Scots should disown this dude.

Second, if he steps onto an NYC street in a kilt, he may be:

(a) Solicited in the Village (b) Killed almost anywhere, (c) Eligible for federal aid, or... (d) Elected mayor!
Posted By: ed good Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 08:25 PM
bb: an what pray tell do you consider to be the attributes of a good and true scot?
Posted By: craigd Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 08:50 PM
Originally Posted By: King Brown
"We" are the people, Craig, and in my neck of the woods we direct provincial policy....

....We don't ask, we don't wait for crumbs to fall like charity from government and industry. They come to us because we own the land. Without responsible activism, we deserve what we get....


Good stuff King, but a bit ago you had mentioned that 'no one can possibly know how it will turn out. Nothing is safe or certain'. Yet around your neck of the woods, you endeavor to persevere. One would hope foreign policy could be a bit more proactive than autopilot pacifism.

Sorry, can't make the big NY shindig, but safe travels. I remember your article, more good stuff. Originally, I was concerned that your group goal of returning the land to it's original state before it was over run by europeans was going to affect you. But, since you're the boss, were you able to work out a vinyard exception. smile
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 08:59 PM
Bob, stay around. I just got in from the vineyard, dragging my ass, and you provided the best laugh of the day!

PS: the clan was earlier wiped out by the Campbells. Little wonder, the clan's motto in English is to neither destroy or despise!
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 09:21 PM
The world's not going to hell, Craig. Keep cool. I hope Misfires' doomsdayers are keeping tally for the first Newtown anniversary of how much the US shooting fraternity has been damaged or destroyed by it. Remember: Obama would take a country in love with its guns to hell and blue ruin.
Posted By: Bilious Bob Re: Nukes - 10/04/13 09:31 PM
Ah yes, King.

Sadly, such pacifists were not suited to The Battle of Culloden.

In which my clan helped obliterate the Mac Donalds - as well as yours.

(watch yer arse!)
Posted By: ed good Re: Nukes - 10/05/13 12:02 AM
an bb, what clan mightin dat be?
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/05/13 01:18 AM
Good question, Ed. I think the treacherous Campbells were facing the Camerons, in the place of honour on the right of Prince Charlie's line. I don't know who were opposite the MacDonalds toward the middle of the line. Maybe Bob is not referring to Culloden but the Campbell betrayal and massacre of the MacDonalds. BB is Bob Campbell?
Posted By: canvasback Re: Nukes - 10/05/13 02:04 AM
As a member of Clan Donnachaidh, this sideline into the history of Scottish treachery is somewhat interesting as the most treacherous person In my life is a MacDonald. Would be happy to slip a dirk between his ribs.

Keith, I hear your cry and would have responded sooner but A was working and B it's not worth pounding that hard on this. King is, I believe, playing the newsman and describing events and circumstances, with a bias of course, rather than advocating. And he's not far off, IMHO. The problem lies in that he is reflecting/reporting on a general and willful ignorance that is based on wishful thinking rather than fact based rationality.

Sometimes I despair at the state of our society. The wish to be supported / coddled by government till the end. To not hear the bad news because if you don't listen, it must not be happening.

And yet everyday, I meet someone, like my son's hockey coach today, that reminds me that you don't have to be over 50 and voted on the right all your life to know what's up and what's down.

The facts are clear about what's been happening lately. Obama and his foreign policy, Iran's effort at creating the bomb, Putin's behaviour, Syria etc. History will prove Keith correct and it won't take long. And in three years, there will be a new President. Obama will be a bad memory like Carter and America will move on. Look who arrived on the scene after 4 years of Carter. Not bad, I'd say.

My advice to those opposed to Obama and the left is don't let purity of cause get in the way. Mitt Romney would have been far better than Obama and he's not President because all the right couldn't get behind him. Watched this scenario play out in Canada my whole adult life until 2004 or so.

This post may seemed to have strayed from the topic of nukes but it makes sense to me......things are the shits, Obama is useless and our backs up as a result. I'm saying stay focused on the problem and it will get better.

The dogs bark but the caravan moves on!
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/05/13 02:22 AM
Good post, James. Straight up, what you think. Regards, King
Posted By: canvasback Re: Nukes - 10/05/13 02:38 AM
King, I have too many Blairs, Duncans, and Atholls in my family history to be anything but a Highlander. Not surprised but glad to hear you wear the kilt. Was helping my father go through some of Duff's papers last month and was reading the original letter of introduction my great great grandfather was given by Victoria's personal secretary as he departed his employment as a gameskeeper at Balmoral to move to Canada. I think from about 1848.
Posted By: King Brown Re: Nukes - 10/05/13 12:27 PM
That letter is a treasure. Keep it out of the light to preserve it. Or if you frame it, make sure it's mounted out of direct light, matted and acid-free to museum standard. Just imagine: you're carrying the tradition on in our mostly wide-open spaces, a larger Balmoral!
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