This is somewhat connected to the present disscussion of old scopes but I decided to post it separately.
I plan to scope an old Mannlicher sporter using a side mount by Williams (the idea is to allow clip-loading). If I use an older scope with elevation adjustment only, is the Williams mount capable of suitable windage adjustment?
With kind regards,
Jani

Hello
According to the 1976 Williams catalog
" All Williams QC Mounts now have an eccentric bushing with a collar that can be turned with a screw driver of similar object, to obtain preliminary adjustment and insure a good mounting job. It is not necessary to remove bushing to turn it, and it is not necessary to remove mount to obtain windage adjustment."

So, if you have a Williams QC Side Mount SM-MS-52/56 with the Offset A rings, perhaps, possibly, maybe.

BUT I would suggest these are only rough windage movements and not fine sighting in movements. You may have to shim the mount to get exactly what you want.

Mike

And expect your windage to be off a fair amount as you shoot at different also! I own an old Marlin Ballard with side mount Stevens scope, and it's sighted in at 100 yds. It strikes quite a bit off horizontally as the distance gets farther or closer.

Thank you both.
So I will rather return to my plan A, which is using a scope with windage adjustment buit in; I have an old Nickel 1-4x with windage knob on the left side which should allow clip loading on the right side.
I plan to sight it in at 70 meters; I am quite curios what this will mean for shooting at say 25 meters, and 200 meters...
With kind regards,
Jani

There is a good resource here => http://handloads.com/calc/index.html

Unfortunately, not metric but you should get close. It does not open correctly with Firefox but IE works. Haven't tried any other browser.

Knowing bullet diameter, weight, shape and velocity, one may set the zero to almost any distance and see the theoretical flight path. Because my closest range is only 50 yards, I use it quite a bit for initial sight in.

Cheers!

For the last few years I have been trying to cope with loss of vision in my right eye. I have tried to learn to shoot left handed, but I have also attempted to modify one of my rifles to allow shooting off the right shoulder, but aiming with the left eye.

Using my Griffin & Howe Springfield, I modified the top slide of the side mount using rings meant for the M1C sniper scope, offset to allow for clip loading.

Using both techniques, I accounted for nine deer this season, six shooting left handed and three with the modified Springfield. It is sighted in at 100 yards, and the horizontal deviation at 150 yards is insignificant on a target the size of a deer. This is how it looks:


There is enough clearance to allow for clip loading, if I should so desire.

DOH! After reading xausa's post it finally dawned on me the impact concern was side-to-side vs. drop. (Note to self: drink coffee BEFORE typing.)

I would think, absenting wind, it should be pretty much straight trigonometry. So, with a 70 meter zero, offset at 140 meters would be almost exactly the same as the offset at the bore. Other yardages should be close to a simple proportion. Probably not 'exact' in a careful scientific context, but certainly close enough for critters.

And sometime I rotate the scope 90 degrees using the windage for elevation and the elevation for windage. Work quite well when you need access on the right side of the scope.
Mike

The issue is similar to what SxS double rifles have with regulated barrels. Need to figure out where the bullet's path intersects, which for your gun/scope is 75 yds. presently. Unlike a SxS, we can adjust our POI with the scope. How far off can't really be calculated from where I'm sitting, as I don't know how far off the barrel's centerline your scope is. Without knowing the offset, there's no way to calculate how far off laterally the strike will be at various distances.
I'd simply say that you need to spend some range time on paper at the various distances, and that will answer your question better than I can.

A scope offset to the left enough to allow for clip loading should result in some difference between POA vs. POI in the horizontal but I can't think it is that big of a deal @ anything but extreme range because the US M1D sniper rifle used the same setup.

It would be far simpler to just sight the rifle in to hit as far to the right as the scope is to the left- Then the targeting line of sight will be parallel with the bullet's flight path as far as one could wish to shoot (not considering wind).

Unless you can sight it in at the farthest distance the bullet can travel, it will never be truly parallel to the bore's centerline! You could sight it in at the maximum range you think you'll ever fire, but that will still make a slight difference at everything closer.
This will work great for hunting rifles, as accuracy is minute of deer. But an offset mount isn't a good choice for accurate target shooting.

No, if the scope centerline is, for example, 3/4" left of the center line of the bore, and you sight the rifle so that it is hitting 3/4" right of the aiming point, then, disallowing for actual wind and spin-drift, it will be 3/4" at every distance from 0 yds, to 10,000.

Vall, have you ever heard of a guy by the name of Jack Odor?

I know Jack very well, we hunt together sometimes and he is a client. That guy can really shoot with left eye........

Yeah, exactly. He is among the very top target shooters in the country, shooting everything from benchrest Schuetzen to 1000 yds creedmoor. Offhand, sticks, bench it doesn't matter. And his sights are offset a few INCHES, not fractions of an inch, to the left.

He is also a really nice guy.

I just talked to him yesterday and forgot to ask how he did in Iowa on deer. His house is like the museum of natural history as well. Every species of NA duck possible, B&C whitetails, Mulies, Antelope and a huge Grizzly as well, and Jack is one hell of a nice guy as noted.

I agree that if you know exactly the distance from centerline to centerline, and you can judge the same exact difference when looking at a target 200 yds. away, then by all means it works. But if you're approximating any part of this, then it's going to change at varying distances. I suppose with enough calculations of outside diameter of the scope, barrel, it could be calculated pretty close, and maybe exactly for someone with the right equipment. Don't forget to include external taper of the barrel when doing all those calculations. And be sure whoever tapered it checked run out from the bore too!
I'd have a tough time estimating 3/4" at 200 yds., unless the scope used had pretty good magnification. Since my old guns get old scopes, then 6x is about as high power as my scopes get. Again, if it's for hunting purposes, then it's not a concern.

Don't tell this guy you cant shoot targets with offset sights. Baker does quite well with them, including being on a national championship team as well as setting several grand senior national records.

Think the offset sights would be much like regulating a double rifle.
The trajectories should cross at some point.
Adjust elevation for range and probably have to tweak the windage.
Could certainly be made to work
Chuck