It is hard to deny the similarities between early Harvey Rodgers work, and John Dubiel stock work. One thing that I have been wondering, is who influenced who, or did they stock in the style that their boss told them to? I hope Micheal does not mind that I stole a couple of his pictures for this discussion.







If I got them right, the middle rifle is a Hart Arms marked Rodgers, whole the other two are Dubiel stocks. They both had there own cheek piece style, but the similarities are obvious and from this side I would have a hard time telling them apart. Later Rodgers stocks have some added refinements such as his treatment of the forward part of the cheek piece, comb nose fluting, and a slight swell in the middle of the pistol grip on the right side. I don't know the exact time line as to when they each began working at Hoffman. If one had started mch before the other it may be that the one who came later had to follow the style that the other had developed. I would be very interested in your thoughts Michael.

Thanks,
John

Hi John, Nice photos ;-),

I've been staring at at my unfinished John Dubiel article for about a year now trying to sort out where and from whom he learned stock making. He came to Hoffmans as a barrel grinder from Colt with his friend Eric Johnson. Rodgers was self taught and had made stocks before he went to Hoffmans. John Dubiel's late son Joe claimed his dad learned gunsmith in Europe, his daughter says no. I believe that John's background was in music and MAY have trained as a violin maker, again I don't have enough to publish that.

When it's all said and done both John Dubiel and Harvey Rodgers were at the top of their game. My guess is that Dubiel learned from Rodgers or they both learned from Wright. The only thing I feel confident about is they did not learn stock making from Hoffman.

If Rodgers made stocks before he came to Hoffman, then isn't it unlikely that he learned from Wright? And, therefore, unlikely that he and Dubiel had a common teacher? So, it would seem that Dubiel probably got some training from Wright and possibly Rodgers while all were at Hoffman, but each developed his own style.

I was told by a former Griffin & Howe stockmaker that they were told to conform to the company style, but that there are very small unique touches in G & H stocks. I would think the same could be true of Hoffman stocks - or any other gunmaking house.

About ten years ago, Old Town Station had a Wright & Son, K.C., 12 gauge which sold before I contacted them. Engraving very much like one of Michael's Hoffman guns. Does anyone on this board own it?

Terry, I wish I could say for certain but at this point I'm still using my best guess. I've been digging into the Wrights, there were three of them and the one who came from England and worked at Hoffman in Cleveland is not the same one who opened the shop in Kansas City.

The way that the checkering rounds back over the top of the grip has always looked very English to me. Not sure that means anything but something to think about.