It seems that I have been successful in my bids for two 1900'ish rifles today. I'm looking for dies and brass for a .318 Westley. I've located brass at Huntingtons for $50 for 20 and dies at Midway for $150. If you know of any cheaper I'd appreciate the info. Thanks

Hi Mike,

First, congrats on y'r new rifles.

Next: are either one Westley "take-apart" guns? The reason is, that a rifleman acquaintance has a stripped-to-the-wood 'take-apart' stock, but no hardware or action at all.

Brother board members provided us with fine catalog pics, so the general lay-out can be figured out, but a Mauser action is going to have be modified some bit in the floorplate/magazine mechanisms and configuration.

Acoording to the Agency manager, the vintage take-aparts are almost unobtanium, and he could readily sell a truckload, so to speak.

Anyway, just a long shot question here, but congrats on the .318.

John the .318 is a Mauser take-apart. Don't know who made it as of yet. It's marked "Made expressly for Fereday & Sons Salisbury. But my guess is WR made it. It's almost identical in the photos to the WR 8mm. Hopefully, I can ID it by a mark or SN when I recive it.

http://auctions.holtandcompany.co.uk/asp...2&saletype=

http://auctions.holtandcompany.co.uk/asp...5&saletype=

Thank you for the pics. They look like new fun, to me. Older rifley-things are great fun to get working.

The take-apart pictured appears to be more of the 'universal' version, where the bbl separates/unscrews from action and the forestock stays attached to it.

The WR version, separates the entire stock from the entire bbl'd action.

The bbl is secured in the fore-end by a steel underlug, pierced by a half-winged captive thru bolt. There are sideplates on the forend to locate and keep stable the fastening apparatus. The receiver ring lug just sits in its mortise, with no bolt coming in from the front of the trigger guard. Spin out the fore-end screw, and the bbl is free.

Instead, the floor plate & magazine assembly is truncated by a slanting cut, which also removes the front guard/action screw. The 'unitized' arrangement apparently allows the bbl'd action to lifted right out of the stock - magazine, floorplate and all, once the securing screw thru the bottom the wrist, into the action tail is released.

The vintage catalog pages show the general idea, but the details aren't that readily apparent.

However, the idea must have worked, as the inletting shows no battering, which is better than can be said for the stock exterior. Bubba, careless files and coarse sandpaper have been there, on the lovely smokey walnut. Restorable, but werry, werry slowly and carefully, with some exterior repairs as well.

Will look forward to seeing your progress and results, as time allows.

IIRC, the .318 is not very different from either the .30-06 or the .338-06. "Ken Waters' Pet Loads", 6th ed., has case forming instructions on p. 1010. You will probably need the FL dies and a tapered expander pin to make the case from .30-06, and you may need to trim the cases, but that is all there is to it. UNLESS you have one of the odd square-shouldered .318 WRs. If you have a square shouldered chamber, that should confirm manufacture by WR, but I do not know what you would do about reloading.

My first suggestion would be to see if an empty .30-06 case will chamber. Use a new case if you have one. If the case chambers, try firing a BLANK load, the sort used for the initial case forming of some wildcats. I would also suggest a chamber cast and slugging the bore. I suspect you will find a 0.330" groove diameter.

The .318 WRs claim to fame was a long 250-grain bullet. Bullets will be a problem. You will need to squeeze .338s down to .330, and that means custom bullets at $2 each or obtaining bullet swaging dies and a very powerful press to use them properly. About 20 years ago, I made some 250 & 275-grain bullets for the .338 from copper tubing and lead wire. I used a press intended for reloading .50 BMG and such cases and a 4-foot piece of steel pipe on the press handle as a cheater. The process worked, but only because I am reasonably strong. The same degree of effort may be needed to swage .338s down to .330. An arbor press (or the jack for your car) may be needed.

If you intend to shoot the rifle a lot and are not worried about collectability, you could re-bore & rechamber to .35 Whelen or maybe to .338-06. That would be a lot less hassle, but less fun.

or you could just buy them from woodleigh, they list them......

What does Woodleigh presently use for bullet jacket material? 20+ years ago, Woodleigh bullet jackets were some sort of steel. A few shooters were unwilling to shoot those bullets in expensive rifles and my employer was investigating the manufacture of odd-size bullets from copper tubing and lead wire.

John I've seen WR takedowns with a similar system to the .318. I had a photo somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it up. SKB I've found the bullets from Woodleigh also. I think I'll go that route.

My 'oopsie' in writing my sentence "WR's version', in such way that it appeared to exclude any other system than the one I described as a WR made take-down.

The catalog pics with which I am familiar, and some pics from the WR agency in the US, show the version I described as their 'Take-apart' rifle. Apparently it was a distinct enough system to have warranted it's own title and catalog page.

However, not being even remotely an expert on the subject, it would be sheer temerity on my part to declare anything authoritative on the terms or items, other than to report the information I rec'd.

Thanks for the future pics, as fine rifles are a real weakness of mine. As old Uncle Dick Harvey, shotgunner and muzzleloader builder, disdainfully says: "Y'r just a rifle loonie!"

In his world view, shotguns -- breech or front stuffers are the what REAL shooters should be interested in. He's just in the final stages of SxS flinter 12ga. "It's WIDE.", I innocently tell him. SNORT!!!!..indignation and blue-word combinations re-echo from his shoppe walls ;~`)

Now...a nice Purdey sporting rifle in .54 might be nice. In fact Jim Chambers makes a pretty nice kit, for a generic English gent's flinter.

See how this 'rifle thing' must be some sort of mental disability? It's just one innerstin' thing after another!!!

Here's some 205gr Hornadys in .330dia intended for the 8x56R Mannlicher round. Probably a bit light in weight for the WR round but at least would make for some affordable shooting and practice.
>
http://www.grafs.com/product/188883
>
CH4D has 318Wesley dies..
...318 Wesley Richards Rimless 4 F $ 78.25 1...
http://www.ch4d.com/

Thanks Kutter. One thing I notices the .318 Nitro Express rimless and the .318 WR Rimless are different. I've seen quite a few reloading sites list .318 Nitro Express rimless as another name for the .318 WR Rimless.

Wasn't aware of that,,The maze of Brit caliber designations is certainly not a strong point of mine,,so I learned something today!
I went back and checked ch4d's web site and they show a separate listing for each of those 2 calibers. Your's is the less expensive of the two!
>
318 Nitro Express Rimless - - H $ 156.60 - - - -
318 Wesley Richards Rimless 4 F $ 78.25 1 - -

The .318 WR is one that I really can't understand yet. The actual diameter of the bullet is .33, the .425 WR is .435! What a mess.

You got some bad data there somewhere. You're either confusing soft nose with solids, or are thinking of a different manufacturer altogether, or both.

First off, while the .318 was once widely used on African thick-skinned dangerous game with 250 grain solids, that's illegal now. With the .318 today, we're speaking of expanding bullets, not solids.

Woodleigh expanding bullets have never been steel-jacketed. Woodleigh has always used gilding metal jackets for their softs - 90/10 copper/zinc. Bonded cores were added 20 years ago. Woodleigh solids are steel-jacketed with a gilding metal sheath, but there isn't much need for them in a .318 today.

Further, .318s have been in regular use with steel-jacketed bullets for 70+ years now. Between the wars, Kynoch (the only manufacturer of centerfire sporting rifle ammunition in the UK after 1920) introduced steel-jacketed solids, as well as steel-jacketed softs, for the .318, and both were in common use in that caliber until Kynoch stopped production in 1973. The pre-WWII bullets had cupro-nickel covered steel jackets, while the post-war were gilding metal covered steel, as the Woodleigh solids are today.

Twenty years ago, there was a ready supply of copper tube/lead wire bullets available in all the odd British diameters and weights - the Barnes "Original".



No, they're not. The .318 Rimless Nitro Express/.318 Westley Richards Rimless/.318 Westley Richards Accelerated Express are the same cartridge. Only the Square Shoulder and the flanged (.322 Swift) versions differ. That's one of the reasons I carefully avoid CH4D when buying dies for British rifle cartridges.



Although the Brits didn't stick to their system any more perfectly than we have to ours, it isn't too hard to follow. In general terms, their rifle cartridge nomenclature is based on bore diameter - but land diameter, not groove. CIP spec for the .318 is .318" land diameter, and .330" groove diameter.

Loading data for the .318 can be a touch scarce, and some suggest using .338/06 data. Since these are Mausers, you may not care, but be aware that max pressure for the .318 is much lower. Some manuals list loads up to 63,000 PSI in the .338/06. CIP MAP for the .318 is 47,800 PSI.

Thanks 400. I will have to wait for 2 months or so. Takes that long to get the approved form6 and then import them.

Mike, let us know if you get permission to import those two Mausers. I have read that there can be difficulties when our import bureaucrats define any Mauser with a left receiver wall thumb cut as an ex-military rifle.

if you can prove through proof marks or other methods that the mausers were originally commercial actions they can be imported. Any military action that has been sporterized in any way is not importable.
Steve