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Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Missing Mannlicher Schoenauer Clip - 09/25/08 02:49 PM
A friend has a Model 1908 Mannlicher Schoenauer 8x56 ms , take down, that is missing it's clip. Can anyone give directions to where he might find one ?
Hmmm--do you mean it's missing the guts of its internal rotary magazine, or is he wanting a stripper clip to quick load that magazine?

Or is this not really an MS, but rather a sporter based on the Steyr 1895 action, which would require a clip, but probably wouldn't use 8x56 MS? You can find anything in European custom rifles, but the rimless 8x56MS would be unusual in the 1895- actioned Steyr; most of them would be 8x50R or 8x56R, wouldn't they?

If it's an MS and all the original rifle is there, you don't actually need a clip.

If it's an MS missing its magazine rotor and spring, that could get costly. Someone on the forum may know of a source and whether the rotor is caliber-specific (I.E. can you use the 6.5x54MS rotor for the 8x56? If so, you might look for a military surplus one from Springfield Sporters or someone with Greek military surplus parts).
Posted By: hammerback Re: Missing Mannlicher Schoenauer Clip - 09/25/08 08:21 PM
Daryl, have you tried the gentleman at http://www.mannlicherschoenauer.com ? Paul Driscoll
Mike, it's missing the entire magazine. Nice gun, but just void of the magazine.
Yikes! I don't even want to think what it would take to fabricate that rotor..... Stoegers used to import the MS and had parts lists in the old Shooters Bibles. Wonder if there is anyone left who knows what happened to those parts when they dropped them (if they ever actually stocked them).

You need an MS expert, which I simply am not. Hope one comes along (any help from the German Gun Collectors Assn? Yeah, I know MSs aren't "German German," but they might know of a parts cache....).
Mike and Paul, thanks. I am a bit hamstrung on answering questions on the rifle as I have not seen it and am not really familiar with the model. I'll forward your info to my friend, in Belgium, and hope something good comes of it. Daryl
Posted By: waterman Re: Missing Mannlicher Schoenauer Clip - 09/26/08 04:46 PM
You might take a look at the innards of an old Savage 99. There might be some ideas in there.
Posted By: Kutter Re: Missing Mannlicher Schoenauer Clip - 09/26/08 08:16 PM
The magazine assembly from a M1903 will interchange with the M1908. If you can locate a magazine assembly from a surplus Greek Model 1903 6.5M/S military rifle, you'll be most of the way home as they are the same as the M1903 commercial model as far as the magazine goes. The difference comes in the rotor which is machined for the specific cartridge. There is very little difference in the two, but placed side by side you can see the difference and it is primarily in the neck area of each cartridge carier on the rotor. Obviously the neck of the 8x56M/S being larger in dia. than the 6.5M/S, that portion of the rotor is slightly larger in it's radius cut. The portion where the cartridge body lays seem to be the same but the 8x56 may also be a bit larger as that cartridge has a slightly larger diameter but not by much. The neck angle does not appear to have to be altered or moved IIRC. The 8x56 cartridge does not quite lay horizontal in the 1903 magazine as it should (for perfect feeding) because 6.5 neck machined into the rotor is up higher than where a 8x56 neck area would be. I think a careful machinist could alter one with a properly ground ball end mill in the neck area of the rotor of each of the cartridge carriers of the 6.5 caliber rotor.
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I can post some pics later on of a 1903 and a 1908 magazine with a 8x56M/S cartridge in place on each if it will help to better explain what I've tried convey above. I'll have to dig the pieces out of the pile first!
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Springfield Sporters in PA has complete magazine assemblies for the military Greek 1903 as well as separate parts.
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http://www.ssporters.com/
Posted By: mkbenenson Re: Missing Mannlicher Schoenauer Clip - 09/26/08 09:44 PM
Gunsmith Steve Nelson (ex-sec'y ACGG) knows something about M/S magazines, he grafted one of the rotary magazines onto a Mauser 98 action. Calls it a Mauserlicher. He is in Corvallis, Oregon, email is nelsons-custom@comcast.net. I am sure he could adapt a Greek military magazine to the 8x56.
Posted By: SKB Re: Missing Mannlicher Schoenauer Clip - 09/26/08 09:49 PM
I have have seen the Mauserlicher in person, He was one table over at our collectors show a few years back. Neat stuff.
Steve
Kutter and all, I have forwarded this, too, to my friend. Please keep the ideas coming.
Posted By: Kutter Re: Missing Mannlicher Schoenauer Clip - 09/27/08 08:03 PM
Here's a few pics of a 1903 6.5M/S mag assembly side by side with a 1908 8x56M/S assembly. Factory Western brand 8x56M/S cartridges are used in the pics. You can see the slight difference in the machining of the carriers (5 each) on the rotor for the different calibers. The 8mm cartridge lays a bit nose up on the 1903 rotor. That causes it to jam when loading passed the first round in the rifle, though the 1903 assembly itself fits fine into the 1908 rifle as you can see in the last pic. Hope these help.
In the pics of the mag assemblys, the 6.5cal 1903 assembly is the one on the left. The one closeup of the cartridge necks and bullets shows the slight nose up angle of the 8mm round sitting on the 6.5cal rotor.
Posted By: J.D.Steele Re: Missing Mannlicher Schoenauer Clip - 09/28/08 01:03 AM
FWIW, I've converted two of these actions to other calibers & cartridges, and Frank de Haas deals with these conversions in his book on bolt actions.

My first conversion was of a Greek military to 257 Roberts. No rotor changes were performed but the conversion entailed extensive alteration and opening of the action's left-side interior wall and feed rail, for clearance of the larger cartridge head. I do not recommend using this Greek miltary receiver for anything other than the original 6.5 cartridge or one with a similarly-sized case head, but the 6.5 rotor itself may be OK for many cartridges without more than minimal alteration.

The second conversion was of a commercial 1908 8X56 carbine to 9X57 Mauser. The 8X56 barrel had a groove dia of 0.328", similar to many early 8mm rifles I've examined, and I had Bob Snapp rebore & rechamber it to 9X57 with no feeding or other alterations. It fed fine with no considerations other than limiting cartridge OAL. Wish I still had it...

Most of these 1908s I've seen had the claw mount bases installed but with no scope. It's not difficult to convert Redfield or Burris rings to claws, Tommy Bish details this alteration in one of his Digest Gunsmithing books. I've converted rings to claws for one 1908 M-S (see above) and one nice little Mauser also rebored to 9X57 Mauser by Snapp. Both were good performers with the converted rings during the few years that I owned & shot them, and since I repeatedly tested the sturdiness & repeatability of the systems, I guess everything was OK. Took a lotta time but it was worth it.
FWIW, regards, Joe
J.D. and Kutter, I hope it's ok for my friend in Belgium to contact you directly if he has a question. Your help has been greatly appreciated. Daryl
Posted By: J.D.Steele Re: Missing Mannlicher Schoenauer Clip - 09/29/08 11:10 AM
Originally Posted By: Daryl Hallquist
J.D. and Kutter, I hope it's ok for my friend in Belgium to contact you directly if he has a question. Your help has been greatly appreciated. Daryl


It's fine with me, just tell him to use the subject line descriptively so that I recognize him and don't remove his email with my spam key. I like to help but also screen for spam and have unwittingly eliminated emails before. I like the M-S rifles and any 1908 is well worth restoring IMO.
Regards, Joe
Posted By: Kutter Re: Missing Mannlicher Schoenauer Clip - 09/29/08 03:01 PM
Originally Posted By: Daryl Hallquist
J.D. and Kutter, I hope it's ok for my friend in Belgium to contact you directly if he has a question. Your help has been greatly appreciated. Daryl

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OK with me also. Glad to help. Sent you a PM (don't think it went through) and an email with some info.
Thanks, to all of you who have generously helped. A project that seemed almost too tough, now appears doable with your help and some work. Hopefully I will be able to get some feedback and photos of the take down MS and a happy ending.
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