I have seen floorplates on high quality custom M1922 type rifles that conceal the magazine and release mechanism under the plate. Are these plates all fabricated by custom gunsmiths or is there a Springfield dimension floorplate that can be purchased from a custom gun parts supplier to do the same job? I have also seen the concealed magazine on custom Model 52 Winchesters.

The ones I have seen, and admittedly less than a dozen between both Springfields and M-52, were custom made for individual projects. The sole exception was some M-52 bottom metal by Blackburn that was reported to be part of a small run.

If anyone can help me with something for a 1922, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

eightbore, I've had reasonably good success in the past by cutting the magazine box off short and then silver-soldering it to the floorplate's inside surface. It takes some careful measuring, and IMO the TIG welding process would be better than silver-soldering, but I used what I had available. Hinged steel bottom metal for the 1903 is rare and costly when found, but I believe it might be possible to adapt an M70 straddle-type floorplate to the issue 1903 TG. Maybe. At any rate I have one and will be atempting it soon.
Good luck, Joe

IIRC, 1922 Springfield magazines are pretty scarce & costly items. I saw a polymer version at a gunshow, maybe last December in Reno. Not that anyone would put such a device on a custom rifle, but you might chop the plastic one up for your experiments before you saw up a real one.

Thanks for the ideas so far. Joe, I'll be waiting to see how your project goes. Bill Murphy

While we are asking about Springfield bits, I would like to know if there is any modern commercial source for things like 03 speed lock kits with one piece firing pins and bolt shrouds with better gas shielding. Springfield Armory made the firing pins in the 1920's but I have never seen one. I have several of these actions, including two that are already rebarreled, but have never finished the projects because of concerns about the action's mechanical features. They are nice to look at, but it seems to me that everything they did to avoid the Mauser patents was a backward step functionally.

My M1922 sure is smooth though! Be careful about the magazines there are at least two different original types: the M1 seems to be different from the later M2 ones. I would have to dig them out and look, but I seem to recall that one is shorter, which might be useful...

Yup, some seem to work better than others. It would be nice to have some discussion about why. Thanks for the comment.

The two magazines (M1 and M2) are slightly different. The old parts catalogs from the 50s & 60s differentiated between the two. And perhaps there were other variations, as collectors seem to recognize 3 or 4 variants in the rifles.

Last winter, our club had a series of 25-yard offhand matches for .22 rimfire rifles. My friend and I entered, he with a 1922M1 and I with an M2. We both tried to shoot a match using loaded magazines. We both had feeding problems and decided to shoot the remaining matches using the rifles as single shots. Both of us were using .22 match ammo, with slightly oversize bullets. Based on that, I would caution one to check the magazine for proper functioning before you went to a lot of work on a modification.

I've purchased several splendid newly-made 1903 bolt sleeves with 3-position M70-style safety from Precise Metalsmithing Enterprises (James Wisner), but it's essentially the same basic design and uses the original issue striker nose. I possess all the tooling necessary to convert to an improved multi-piece design that not only is much safer but also greatly minimizes the lost motion and even repairs a broken striker nose at the same time; this alteration was detailed by Ludwig Olsen in an article in Rifle No 92, page 29. Unfortunately I'm not aware of anyone making a 1-piece striker for the 1903 today but they may be out there somewhere. Back in the '60s I ordered such a beast from an outfit in SoCal that promptly went bust after cashing my check, and I haven't seen anything like that since then.

I've owned 2 1922s, one issue w/8X Unertl and one that I sporterized. Both were more accurate than all other RFs I've owned except one 10/22 with Volquartsen bbl; either was a genuine sub-0.75-MOA performer at any range. I used a PME 3-position sleeve on the sporter and had 2 M2 mags with one stored under the butt trap. Of course it also had a band ramp front and Lyman 48 rear in addition to the Leupold scope & Canjar trigger. I ended up giving this one to my best friend.

There were indeed slight differences between the 2 mags (even though they were both marked the same) and one didn't feed quite right sometimes. I suggest on any conversion that you use a commonly-available magazine instead of an expensive original, especially since the first try may not work out so well (BG). You don't hafta ask how I know this...

I've never converted a 1922 to a hidden magazine but would imagine that it would be very practical & doable to use an original 1903 floorplate with some sort of available magazine attached to it, and actually not be required to make any alterations at all to the receiver or TG other than removal of the mag catch. Theoretically, of course (G).
Regards, Joe

I've never worked on an M-22 or a M-52, but I have closely examined just a few sopisticated custom jobs. the most recent was an M-22 by Stephen Heilmann, I detailed in an Accurate Rifle story (with cover photo below in November 2001. It has custom bottom metal milled from bar stock, but altered original magazines are inserted through the faux floorplate. (The action was shortened and other extensive alterations accomplished. An extraordinary rifle all around!)


All the hinged floorplate, .22 magazine conversions I've seen, did not have the magazine attached to the floorplate. Unless, I am not correctly understanding, I don't know why one would want to attach the magazine to the floorplate?


BTW, Joe, you'd have to be a great friend to have a good enough friend to give that rifle to, I applaud you!

Best,
Steve

Joe is a friend as i am,and hard to get rid of.ben



Steve it is nice to hear from a person that can do the work on a rifle then talks about it. i look forward to your next post.ben

Steve, this has long been just a hobby with me; admittedly it's sometimes more of a vocation in the spiritual sense, but I try to keep the pressure down by only working what & when I want. It takes me such a long time to finish a project that doing it commercially is out of the question, so I frequently give away the product to a nephew or friend or friend's son. This custom isn't new with me, when I was just a chap I watched two well-regarded local craftsmen give away their work; AAMOF a gift was the ONLY way a person could get either a walking cane from the one or a Kentucky/Pennsylvania long rifle from the other, and each product was recognizable & widely coveted in the area. The 1903 I'm building now will be my gift to a friend's son in 2-3 more years, depending upon his graduation date.

The friend who received my 1922 also has a fine little Mauser sporter repeater 22LR with mannlicher-style stock by Ed Shulin. Remember that name? Ed's first year as an instructor at Trinidad was also my freshman year as a student, and we had many a 'discussion'. The poor guy still won't believe that Joe Namath didn't really learn to play serious football until he left NY to attend college in the SEC!(G)

The same friend also has a bench-converted 700/40X 22LR repeater that's worthy of mention here. I had a RF 40X complete bolt and we both knew where there was an orphan 700SA receiver and my friend wanted a super-accurate 22 WMR, so we built a single shot magnum with Shilen CF barrel. Short version, it didn't shoot to suit so he converted it to use a 10/22 magazine and set the barrel back using my 22LR match reamer. Short version again, it shot like a house afire and will still shoot into 1/2 MOA on a good day. The part that's worthy of mention is that all this took place about 4 years before the 77/22 was released, due entirely to my friend's imagination and workmanship. I figured that my 1922 would be in good company and the gift was especially gratifying to me since my friend's father was one of my early gunsmithing and flying mentors.

As I mentioned on another forum recently and as my friend Ben Shelor The Infamous Engraver already knows, it's very satisfying to pay forward rather than pay back. Both my smithing mentors have died so I pay forward where I can.
Regards, Joe

Steve, I forgot to add that my last hidden mag conversion was adapting a 1909 Mauser hinged floorplate (floorplate only) fitted to the TG of an 1891 Mauser converted to 223. I used a Rem 788 223 magazine, shortened and silver-soldered to the inside of the floorplate. It worked OK and is one of my varminters but the next one will be detachable as you said. It's somewhat difficult to add the very last cartridge to the now-integral mag since it's hinged and not completely removable. A removable floorplate as in most 1903/1922s would simplify loading but I agree that a separate magazine is preferable.
Regards, Joe

Ben & Joe,
Sorry I haven't gotten back to you. I greatly enjoy and appreciate your personal comments about the thoughts and feeling that go along with all of this technical shop talk.
Sometimes I post long and lots, and sometimes I don't because I'm either over-the-top busy with what is making a living rather than a hobby or past-time, or I'm just written out which happens when one produces some 30-50 thousand words per year for hire. (Both at the moment!)

Ed Shulin taught me how to make stocks and I will forever remember the wonderful times I had in his shop, and in and around Trinidad with Ed and Lee(Mrs. Shulin) with my ex-wife.

(I clearly remember the discovery that someone could, in fact, Make a Custom Rifle!!! And then found myself DOING IT!!

In 1998 I had the pleasure of teaching Stockmaking for Single Shots in Ed's old shop at TSJC during an NRA summer session (20 years after graduating). I invited Ed in one day (saw quite a bit of he and Lee while there) and got him talking and drawing on the chalk-board, just like he did when I was the student! (Giggle!)

Photos circa 1977
Two pics of Ed Shulin (blue jumpsuit) in his TSJC shop teaching my class stockmaking.
And two photos of my first Mauser, metalwork next to Am. walnut blank and highest priced French blank (Tessier) at the bookstore ($85 a birthday gift from my wife!) Other photo of that metal in that Am. walnut blank, my first stock, in Shulin's classroom.
That rifle was my .270 O'Connor dream and I sold it in about 1984(?) for $400 to buy a plane ticket to Vegas to join the Guild and show my muzzleloaders. Wasn't I surprised when I got there and everyone had bolt rifles and no m/l guns but mine!
Sorry for hijack! (BTW, Heard Bill Prator, TSJC GS Dept. head, died recently.) Wouldn't it be great to tell stories!

Also, I endlessly edit this stuff just like I do with manuscripts which adds lots of time!

Steve, I was vacationing in Trinidad ~ 1999 & 2000, saw Ed & Lee then and even bought 2 profiled blanks from him. He told me then that Bill Prator was in really bad shape and wouldn't remember me, so I didn't call on him. Boots Obermeyer told me that Prator's old P&W barrel-making machines had been sold, finally, and I gathered that the reason was lack of interest by the students. Too bad.

Ed told me that before his retirement from TSJC he went through a bad period with his students when all they wanted to build was something made of painted synthetics. I've heard through the grapevine that he, Ed, is finally thinking of selling his stock profiling business and I'm encouraging one of Ed's nearby (nearby to me, grin) customers to buy it. The older I get, the more I appreciate good wood & good workmanship. Ed tried his best to teach us about both!

At least with you he succeeded.....
Best, Joe

I didn't look up Bill Prator on the same advice.
Here are a couple of pics of him (also circa 1977) at his lathe and teaching spring tempering and a shot of those rifling machines. I had no interest in rifling, but remember watched Dennis Detloff (an instructor) re-cut a .32 Ballard to .44 S&W Special.
For all we learned at TSJC (at least those of us who took it seriously) the school always seemed about one tooth out of sync, eh?
I spent a bunch of time with Prator running his trap line up near Tercio during holidays.

I have a framed print of Lee's, Fisher's Peak, and a couple of her small original oils of Fisher's from that time period. Bet you were shooting iron over the hill?
Did/do you know Dave Sullivan (Westwind Rifle, CO), a classmate of mine and Racine,WI, Obermeyer friend?
Ed taught me well and I think of him often when working walnut.
Lots of memories.

BTW-- This is were I most recently saw the Blackburn M-52 bottom metal! (and a lot of other great work)
http://www.martiniandhagngunmakers.com/custombarrels.htm

Numrich Arms in West Hurley, NY (now Gun Parts Corporation) used to sell a one piece Springfield firing pin made up using parts from a 1922. They may still have some. Also, there was a Garand speed action made for the 1903 International Match rifles, it used a square cross section striker spring and a skeletonized one piece striker to keep the weight down. I had one and put it into a sporter, the bolt lift was very hard because of the powerful spring and I removed it. Today a Garand speed action is a prime collector piece and would go for big bucks.

I should add that the Garand speed actions were classical examples of Springfield Arsenal toolroom virtuosity, supreme metalsmithing.

Sorry Steve, I know the Westwind name but have never met or spoken with Dave. My acquaintance with Boots is strictly that, an acquaintance based upon my interest in barrel-making and his kindness in responding to my queries. A true gentleman.

I was completely floored by my first view of Lee's big treatment of Fisher's Peak in their living room, truly spectacular! And yes I visited Raton but didn't shoot, just enjoyed a couple of mornings spent on the overlook in the park behind the town. Tried to convince My Bride to move out there but no luck....this time.

Also visited K&P Rifle Barrels there in Raton and ordered a cut-rifled 22RF from them. They kinda surprised me by saying that they couldn't find any gunsmithing students that were interested in working for them part-time! When I was @ TSJC in the '60s my roommate worked for Paul Mayer the reamer maker there in Raton, but according to Ken & Peggy the students of today aren't interested in learning the barrel-making trade. Or maybe K&P didn't pay enough.....

I always thought Prator was the coolest instructor there because of his neat little Triumph TR-3 with the racing stripe and leather hood straps. And then there was his natty little bow tie and his extremely biting comments upon my (lack of) expertise!
Regards, Joe

J.D. Steele: I will order up the Rifle back issue discussing the Springfield firing pin modification, my collection from the 1980's is incomplete.

mkbenenson: Thanks for the tip about 1922 parts, I think I have a spare bolt around here someplace, but it may not have all the internals.

I don't want to burn bandwidth by posting them here, but if you go to http://www.google.com/patents and enter the following patent numbers you will pull up both the Garand speedlock and a slightly later Sedgley multi-piece safety pin.

Garand: 1780521
Sedgley: 2089581

If one of our modern good metalsmiths could be persuaded to run off a batch of the Garand type, I would probably buy several. I am not looking for historical authenticity, something like the David Tubb pins would work for me. I just hate the idea of building a custom rifle around an action with AWFUL lock time. I understand the game doesn't know the difference...