In August of this year I began buidling a side by side rifle using a LC Smith 16 Ga, FW frame. While the LC Smith is not the preferred choice of actions I'm at a point where I hope some of the more enlightened ones on this forum may help. I have fitted the rifle barrels to the monobloc made from the existing shotgun barrels, I have turned them down, and have a finished length of 26 inches. They are chambered for 30-30 Win and the extractor is completely fitted. I fitted a bushing at the end of breech end to give a finished look. I have also bushed the firing pins. I intend to use factory ammo, Reminton 170 grain Core-lock. The question I have is the proofing process. I assume that simply running a few rounds through the gun does not a proofed gun make. I have fabricated a jig to fire the barreled action from while I am a safe distance away. I have read about measuring the action before and after shooting the gun. What would be the keys points to take measurements from? I assume that this is the point to began proofing. It appears that proofing involves testing with ammo that exceeds the norm? Any suggestions are surely welcomed.
Mark
have you bushed your firing pins yet? Bushing the pins is a must. The Smith would not be my choice for these kind of pressures....I would want to be a longway behind that test fire jig. If the action and lock up hold to your test firing you should be able to tell if has been affected by examining the lock up to be sure that nothing has loosened. I know shot gun bores are usually measured before and after proofing...I don't think that the barrels themselves are your weak spot. I would be concerned with the locking system most of all on this project. If I personally was going to convert a smith to a rifle, it would be a rifled 20 ga shotgun, much lower pressures and about the same power as a 30-30. Good luck and be very, very careful.
Steve
Mark,
You need to have loads of a known pressure, usually 30% more than the SAAMI limit. These are sometimes called "Blue pills". They are not for sale to the general public. You can send the gun to Birmingham or Liege and have them proof it for a fee.
Make sure there is a solid wall in between the gun and the tester.
Measurements are taken with instruments that have been calibrated and certified to assure accuracy.
Here is a thread on the subject that you may find helpful.
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....=&fpart=all
Steve, yes the firing pins have been bushed. I promise to be well protected when the hammer falls, thanks for your info. After I began the project I researched the preferred actions however I am approaching this from the standpoint of learning what to do and what not to do. It is such a shame though, ain't nothing like a sidelock double in your hands. JMHO.
PeteM, thanks for the info and website.
mark
sbs,
How's the project coming along?
Don't do a proof load. Just shoot it several times with a maximum load, with your jig, and check for defects. Then, take normal precautions with regular loads, such as eye protection or a face mask and heavy coat, until you are confident that the gun is safe.
Do not do a proof load?
That's bad advice at best.
Steve do you have something against Mark?
Mark, would you consider shooting your project conversion job without having shot a series of proof loads?
Be careful with that thing...
--Tinker
Hello all, leadsinger and sbs we are all one in the same, long story, anyway I have been consumed with the terminal illness of my father so I'll be brief. The project is proceeding slowly. I have fitted the forearm lug and handfitting the quarter rib. The proofing has not begun at this point. I assure all that i will proof in some fashion. That proofing will take place with my body being a sizeable distance from the point of firing. This project as previously mentioned is designed to provide facts about what to do and more importantly what not to do. I have plans of writing a book to that end. I believe that purchasing a factory side by side rifle is by far the safest route for any of us to take, however I desire to hold a side by side rifle in my hands that I had a part in building. Having said that I want to hold it in both hands with all ten fingers attached. Thanks for the interest and I will try to do a better job of posting regularly. I live in the sticks and have only dial up service so loading pictures is a challenge. Please let me know if you feel their might be any interest in such a book.
Thanks
Mark
Are you aware that there already is such a book?
lc smith convertions are nothing new. Frankly I consider the actions to be extremely strong.People are still driving modern loads through lc,s and i rarely see a loose one.Dixie gun catalog listed a damascus 20 ga with 45-70 inserts done in the 50s by a notable gun smith.The nitro double rifle sold quickly.But when shooting anthing ! in doubt, use all precautions possible, oh ? I thought all lcs were already bushed.
Go to
http://www.mcae.com/shotguninserts.htm buy a couple of inserts, pop them in your double gun and presto, you have a double rifle. Don't know how it will shoot, but I would think that if your shotgun barrels converge at 20 yards, the bullets would ge close.
jd6729
Okay, address in last post didn't work. Try
http://www.mcae.com
I don't know why it don't work. Go in direct from your computer. jd6729
http://www.mcace.comThis should work. jd6729
greetings all, sorry for the delay, my father passed right before christmas and things slowed down here. I have fitted the forearm lug and believe I have some proof loads built that will tell me what I need to know. I am aware that a book on building side by side rifles has been authored and its a good writing however I feel that there could be more. I don't intend to re-write whats in print but add to. It may be in multiple volumes. With so many questions surrounding this subject and so many DG fans out there it seems a shame not to provide the good and bad of building a double rifle. Anyway if no one else is interested my son will one day have volumes to read. I have countless notebook binders full of side by side shotgun slug gun building stories and theories and quite a few pictures. Thanks for the interest.
mark
Mark, what gun did you use for a base action?
The more books the better, first thing everyone asks is which actions are suitable for what calibers. A I recall the other book says go foriegn made with greener crossbolt and low pressure rounds...Anyway, maybe I should read it again, it's been awhile.
Mark got any pictures that won't make it in the book?
I fired proof loads yesterday. Had previously taken key measurements at various points of action and breech end of barrel assembly. Measurements after firing prooved no different so I assume the gun would be considered in proof. I must admit I was anxious to say the least. I know the purpose of proofing is not to see if the gun will blow up, but I had to do it a second time, everything remained the same. All the information has been recorded in the notebooks for consolidation in book form at some point. I do have pictures with the rifle barrels fitted and chambered and the rifle in my proofing jig. I have dial up service so downloading pictures at this point is time consuming however I will include pictures in the book. Mark
Good for you Mark. Well done.
CMWill,
Very interesting for me. A whole new Gunsmithing Forum!!!