What do you all make of this defect?

There does not appear to be a crack, but all I've got are these photos to go on. The gun in the photo is a Joseph Lang c.1870.

Is this something other than a grain defect?

repaired gouge would be my guess.

Thanks. I'm considering making an offer on the gun from afar, and wanted to be sure the doublegun smiths here wouldn't see this as indicative of a bigger problem like a hidden crack. Gun otherwise looks great (virtually at least)

Considering that the grain is a bit convoluted in that area, I think it is more likely that this is a small inclusion in the wood. It is most evident in your first photo, behind the popped finish, just forward of the checkering.

Inclusions are most often seen in more figured wood, and are often referred to as bark inclusions. Pitch pockets are commonly seen in pine wood. Knots sometimes emerge as a stock is carved. Often, there are no noticeable defects on a stock blank, but during turning or carving, a hidden defect will show up. Sometimes the defect is bad enough that the stock is scrapped. Some wood dealers offer a refund or exchange if a hidden inclusion or defect emerges during turning. Sometimes a small defect such as this ends up being finished and sold. Often, the stockmaker will attempt to repair or otherwise hide the defect.

Would that make you think the stock has been replaced, given that it's on a high grade Lang from the 1865-1870 era?
Would this blemish make you at all hesitant to buy a gun? I'm thinking an inclusion (or a shallow gouge) would'nt adversely affect the strength of the gun.

I haven't seen enough to make any judgement about originality of this stock. What I do see would not stop me from buying it, and I wouldn't worry about it breaking if it hasn't broken already. Without X-ray vision, no one can say if the inclusion is larger as you go deeper into the wood. But then again, any fancy grained wood might be hiding a hidden inclusion.

You might be able to use that information to get a little break on the price though.

Looks like original wood to me. A Lang of that vintage and evident quality would not have been let out the door with a stock that had an inclusion in the head of it. keith just wants to disagree with me. Buy the gun, remove the fill and repair it properly and you are good to go.

My thought on this defect was the same as your initial thought Woodreaux... a natural defect in the grain of the wood. My opinion was purely based upon what I see in your photos. My opinion has not changed. I can't help it if Stevies feelings are hurt over that. He's one of those thin-skinned sensitive little flower types.

I'd be interested though, in seeing better photos if and when you buy this gun. And if you do dig out this flaw and find it to be some badly color matched wood filler, it isn't going to hurt my feelings because I was wrong about what I see in a photo. I call 'em as I see 'em, and I'm not perfect.

Something we can finally agree upon.

You are wrong in this instance, no Lang from this period of time would have left the shop with a bark inclusion in that location.

Like I said, Stevie is one of those thin-skin sensitive flower types. And he has apparently seen every Lang shotgun that was ever built. I'm impressed.

Gee think up your own insult. I had pointed out what a sensitive flower you are many times in the past.

You are like a desert flower according to your wife, fragile and does not last very long.

Wow Stevie, that's pretty rough. Especially coming from a fairy like you, who has never slept with a woman.

Well, I now feel like I've officially joined the club. Ive been wondering when i would finally post something would start an argument!

(I also take the argument as validation that my question wasn't too amateurish and obvious)

I'll let y'all know who's right if I get the gun.

Buy the gun. Ignore the argument...Geo

There is no way with the competition from gunmakers that Lang would let that go it just wouldn't happen

There is no way with the competition from gunmakers that Lang would let that go it just wouldn't happen

Inclusions and "checks" are pretty common in highly figured wood and in the old days were commonly repaired with stick shellac applied and smoothed with a heated spatula or pallet knife. The real "trick" was in the ability of the stockmaker to match the color of the wood. They kept a selection of shellac sticks in various colors. This was before epoxy and certainly before "plastic wood"(boo) or other filler, and was regarded as the proper way to address the problem. Whether "Lang would let that go" boiled down to a judgement of whether they would use a piece of highly figured wood for a stock or for firewood.
Mike

Or if they would lose a valued customer that could have been buying from them for years.

In all probability this is some form of after market damage to the stock. My reasoning for this is I have seen many stocker repairs that cover faults in a stock blank that are so good as to be virtually undetectable. The reason a stocker can cover up flaws so well is simple he has a goodly amount of spare timber that he has removed in the shaping of the stock, therefore he can choose grain type and exact figuring and colour to blend in with the finished stock to make a virtually undetectable splice or fill in. In the normal run of events of a stock damage original wood in enough quantity to choose from has a tendency to make all fill in types of repair extremely noticeable, the repair in the photograph looks like a filler of some sort has been used IMHO.

Possibly the stock originally had a good filler in a wood defect, but over the years it loosened and fell out . The replacement filler was not done real well.