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Posted By: JayCee Revdoc, here is some damascus for you... - 05/23/08 11:27 PM
Hello Doc,

These pictures are from a Swedish bladesmith's website.





Thought you'd enjoy them.
More at his website

JC
Thanks JC- just amazing skill!
How in the world did some fella in Belgium more than 100 yrs ago figure out how to arrange thin strips of iron and steel to form WORDS after twisting and winding around a mandrel?!?!

'TERRELL'

Posted By: GregSY Re: Revdoc, here is some damascus for you... - 05/24/08 12:33 AM
It's impossible those barrels were made 100 years ago. I did some research on the web and 100 years ago there were no computers, no value proposition based engineering initiatives, and no ISO 9000 Quality Standards.
Posted By: JayCee Re: Revdoc, here is some damascus for you... - 05/24/08 02:31 AM
Well put Doc, amazing skill!
Almost unbelievable.
JC
Stunning skill!
Posted By: KY Jon Re: Revdoc, here is some damascus for you... - 05/25/08 04:05 AM
These remind me of the Rorschach inkblot test. You can see different things in them depending on how many floors the elevator goes up. Art and skill with metal at its finest.
Looks like a msgicians trick to me.
Revdoc, I have a set with Remington Arms Co intertwined into the Damascus pattern and another with the name Pieper wrapped round and round. I wish that I could work the posting photo feature of the forum and show you. I'm learning slow but sure.

Tim
Posted By: PeteM Re: Revdoc, here is some damascus for you... - 05/25/08 12:23 PM
Tim,

I sent you an email.

Pete
I still say it's a hammer on top layer...just skin deep.
Timothy
Send the Remington, Pieper pictures to one of us and we will post them for you
Tim: this is huge! We know that Pieper produced the highest grade damascus barrels used on the Remington 1894.

'Pieper P'


Please check out
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfg2hmx7_72xs856hdf
Are there any maker's marks on the barrels?
Short of dissecting the barrels I wonder if an x-ray through the barrel section with the letters would show the pattern to be intrinsic to the 'lopin', and not just superficial 'damascene?'
Posted By: JayCee Re: Revdoc, here is some damascus for you... - 05/25/08 03:54 PM
jOe, if you go to the bladesmith's page you can read about the way he makes them.
Definitely NOT hammered on!

JC
Puraye showed the pattern in barrels spelling out "Prince Albert" to be formed from the iron and steel arrangment in the lopin, rather than damascene. The American Rifleman article is linked here
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfg2hmx7_162c3zhvkfx
Posted By: PeteM Re: Revdoc, here is some damascus for you... - 05/25/08 04:52 PM
Originally Posted By: JayCee
jOe, if you go to the bladesmith's page you can read about the way he makes them.
Definitely NOT hammered on!

JC


http://johanknives.com/about.php
Quote:
What is Mosaic Damascus steel?
This technique is more complicated and time consuming. Using a square tube, 2x2 inches high and 4 inches long. I fill the tube with steel rods of varying dimensions and nickel sheet, this way I create an image that will be visible when the steel is finished. This procedure takes a very long time. I forge weld the “package” together. When it has cooled down, I cut slices that I then forge weld together again, carefully shaping the steel to fit the desired blade or bolster.

How is the coloring done?
I use a boiling solution that is called nitro blue, when the blade is all finished (see “how is it done); I put it in the nitro blue for a few minutes. The Swedish tool steels react well to the blueing solution, the varying alloys in the steels react differently, thus giving me an array of interesting colors.


This is the same process that Figiel describes. Sachse also shows examples of this.

People seem to react the most when a name is woven into the barrel. There are many examples of this. Sachse shows how a billet is assembled to produce any word or words desired. It is not a skill of the barrel smith but rather the rolling mill.

Pete
Here's Tim's amazing 1894 EE.

Thank you for posting my barrels. I believe they were made by Pieper. I have come to believe that they were the only company that ever figured out how to spell out the words in the Damascus pattern. The the number one crew for Pieper was run by a guy named Ballencort (spelling)(I think that was his name) and not only was his crew the one that figured this phenom out, but they were the last to produce Damascus barrels. Not just in there company, but the whole industry. They went out on top!

By the way, that's a beutiful Remington!!!
Posted By: PeteM Re: Revdoc, here is some damascus for you... - 05/26/08 01:06 AM
Originally Posted By: Timothy S
Thank you for posting my barrels. I believe they were made by Pieper. I have come to believe that they were the only company that ever figured out how to spell out the words in the Damascus pattern. The the number one crew for Pieper was run by a guy named Ballencort (spelling)(I think that was his name) and not only was his crew the one that figured this phenom out, but they were the last to produce Damascus barrels. Not just in there company, but the whole industry. They went out on top!
By the way, that's a beutiful Remington!!!



Tim,

What leads you to believe that Pieper was the only company to achieve this? Also that they were the last to produce damascus?

Pete
Pete, a conversation with a gentelman who is a very good friend of mine that was a good friend with Bill Wise and that was his opinion. I think that if there was more people that could have done them there would be more guns out there. I believe that these guns (barrels) are quite rare.
Pete, I dug up my notes my friend gave me.

Bill Wise spoke with R S and R said he only knows of three gun with names in barrels one was a Purdy probably the Prince of Albert. RS said these guns with the name in them were 'absolutly the holy grail' of barrel's and 'rarity is esquisite'.

The barrel maker worked for Pieper-head man and was the last maker of Damascus barrels when he retired in 1930.

Barrel maker - Jean Delacour
Leige, Belgium
Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont of Nessonvaux
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20d/a%20delcour%20dupont%20gb.htm
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20i%20j%20k/a%20jobe%20t%20gb.htm

Jean-Baptiste was the father of Lucien Delcour and had been a manager for Pieper & Cie before opening his own shop specializing in Damascus barrels. He received a patent for SxS barrels in 1910. Canons Delcour S.A. was registered in 1921, and remained in business until 1968.



From 1924-1930 Delcour-Dupont attempted to revive Damascus production in Nessonvaux.



We can't, however, confirm the Delcour-Dupont made those brls without finding his maker's mark - a Crown over D or DD in an oval


Drew, Delcour, the younger still in business at that late date could not be making Damascus barrels do you think?
Posted By: JayCee Re: Revdoc, here is some damascus for you... - 05/26/08 12:46 PM
Doc, it actually says that in 1968 de company became DELECOUR CANONS S.A and a few years later was taken over by FN. It wouldn't make much sense to call a company DELECOUR BARRELS INC., if they were making something else, but one never knows.

JC
Thanks JC
Steel brls by Canons Delcour have been identified on Smith, Fox, A.J. Aubrey/Sears, and Ithaca NID marked "Best Fluid Steel" and Lefever Nitro Special A-grades.
Puraye states that the last damascus barrels were made at Delcour in 1930.
Tim: what is the production year of your Remington?
Posted By: JayCee Re: Revdoc, here is some damascus for you... - 05/26/08 01:11 PM
Doc, point taken, i.e. barrels yes, damascus, no.
JC
Posted By: PeteM Re: Revdoc, here is some damascus for you... - 05/26/08 03:10 PM
Originally Posted By: Timothy S
Pete, I dug up my notes my friend gave me.

Bill Wise spoke with R S and R said he only knows of three gun with names in barrels one was a Purdy probably the Prince of Albert. RS said these guns with the name in them were 'absolutly the holy grail' of barrel's and 'rarity is esquisite'.

The barrel maker worked for Pieper-head man and was the last maker of Damascus barrels when he retired in 1930.

Barrel maker - Jean Delacour
Leige, Belgium


OK, Bill knew about "Remington", "Pieper" and "Prince Albert". There was also "Washington" and "Zenobe Gramme".

Tim, the patterns were copyrighted. The billets were not produced by the barrel makers, but by the rolling mills. The mills paid a royalty to the copyright holder and sold the billets to any maker who would pay the going rate. At least, this much I have been able to document.

The barrel maker must know the twist rate to properly produce the pattern.

We know all the copyrights that Pieper held. No where is there any trace of Pieper holding a patent for damascus fabrication.

Drew is using a image I posted from Qui est Qui. No where does it say that Delcour-Dupont held a patent for damascus fabrication. Jean-Baptiste died in 1931. We presume he was "one of the last" houses producing damascus only because of the documentation that was commissioned by the Belgian government. The market for damascus was disappearing. Greener notes that the English stopped producing it in 1903.

Pete
Drew, I'm not sure of the year, my Remington book is not at hand but the SN is 109XXX.

Tim
Should be 1898 Tim, and at the height of the 'Golden Age of Damascus'
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