I have found a SXS shotgun that I would like to know what it is. It has the name Francotte's Arms on the top of one barrle and the name Leige' on the other. It has engraving all over the sides and top. It's serial number is 20XXX. Hopefully you don't need to know the rest. It has a sling mount between the bottom of the barrels. Double triggers. What is it? I've heard of fakes, is this one?
Hi, first, welcome to the forum!! Lots of wonderful folks here with a ton of knowledge and I maen a ton!! I think you'll enjoy it as much as I have.
Anyway, Francotte is one of the top makers in Bel. They are known for high quality guns. Your gun is more than likely the real deal, but to make sure, it would be great if ypu could post some pics of the gun. The real experts here will be able to help more than me.
Anyway, welcome and good luck!!
All the best!
Greg
If it say 'Leige' it's a fake - it's unlikely that the Belgian's would mis-spell the name of their major gunmaking city.
Assuming that you mis-typed, there is hardly enough information to determine the authenticity. The presence of sling swivels suggests that it was made for the European market and later imported to the US. Francotte used the same serial numbers on different models at different times. It could be a 1940's gun or a 1950's gun, depending on the model. If you could provide photos of the gun, especially the proof marks, you would get a more accurate and informative response.
hI nEED2NO
WHOOPS! My keybrd is wacky!!
Going from memory ,& the Francottes I have owned tjhat would ,if its the usual medium grade boxlock ,or sideplated boxlock, make it well before 1900..i had a non sideplate 14e that was around 40,000 & remember it as around 1901 or 1904.But memory isn't great
The 4 Francottes I have had were all Sideplated boxlocks from VL& D, in the 80xxxish range & from around 1920-30,ID via the Alphabet code sheet....&, & this is important to me...marked Auguste Francotte , maker & Patentee Liege, Belgium...on the sideplates or side of action.
There have been other ones mentioned here..."Francotte Arms", but they don't seem to be of the same quality , and seem rather different from the Aug' Francotte, maker patentee ones from VL&D.
A few pics would make it easier, off the gun , & as Bob says..the stampings
cheers
Franc
1001, you can determine quite easily whether it's an Auguste Francotte gun. Remove the barrels. On the flats (underneath the chambers) you'll find a number of marks. One of them should be an "AF" with a crown. It may also say "Francotte Chokebore". But there are a number of different grades of Francotte guns. Hard to distinguish without further information--especially photos, as noted above.
As Larry stated, pictures are needed. For maker's marks you can look here. Just do a search for "Francotte".
http://damascus-barrels.com/bp.htmlSome of the Francotte's are field guns or knock-abouts, others are more.
Pete
I have photos does anyone know how I can post them....
Also, I did mispell above.
Any idea how I can send you a photo?
My 1899 hammerless 12ga Francotte serial 337XX says on action A Francotte Maker & Patented (and below) Liege Belgium. On the barrels usual VLD markings. On the rib, with gold bar, Made for C.W. Billings
You need to post some more info.
But, if it says is 'Francotte Arms', I'll go out on a limb and say the odds are pretty good it was not made by Auguste Francotte, Liege, the maker of 'true' Francotte shotguns.
Here are some Belgian proofs - which would only prove the gun was made in Belgium, not who made it. But, if it doesn't have at least some of these, it's definitely not a Francotte.
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view...71&offset=0
Randall, Send me an e-mail. I'll send some pictures of a 16 ga Francotte O/U
tommcdevitt@hotmail.com
It is a 12ga with 70mm chambers. It has the Francotte trade mark on it. It was made sometime between 1928 and 1965. I can not see the date code. It also has the barrel weight in kilograms, which I can not read.
Pete
Maybe you can see it on one of these other photos
[img]
http://picasaweb.google.com/bill.teffeau/GUNS[/img]
Do you know what it is worth? I'm trying to figure out the best way to insure it.
As far as value is concerned Francottes' are undervalued IMHO. If you are a seller its is not good, but as a buyer its great! The best insurance is a safe.
It has a 1953 date code mark
Date code appears to be the mark that looks vaguely like a 'u' under the 'h' in 'Akah'.
I can't match the date code from the current pics - see cursive date codes on this page to try to decipher yourself:
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.htmlThe 'O' w/ a star over it is the inspector's mark.
I have no idea what 'Akah' is - never seen that on a Francotte.
Be interesting to see more pics of gun - underside of bbls ahead of the existing pics, exterior shots, etc. Also be interesting to have more #s of the SN, as 20XXX leaves it pretty open...
http://doublegunshop.com/dgsnos2.htm
Here's a 1953 AKAH catalog
http://www.cornellpubs.com/Templates2/Akah%201953.htmI believe the odd 'u' is a small case lambda, but was an ATO pledge at MU in 1970 so it's been a few years
It could be an upsilon
I have owned two shotguns such as you describe with the name Francotte's Arms. Both had the genuine AF proofs, so were "real" Francotte guns and not fakes. However, it seemed in my looking around that the line of guns they put out marked as Francottte's Arms were perhaps a low end line, maybe intended for some particular market. While nice guns, they were clearly not the quality of other Francotte guns without the "Arms" as part of the name. It's not at all uncommon for a major maker to have a "leader" line of guns, and I believe this was their "leader" line.