I received a German SxS BLE 20 Ga yesterday that is identical to my Merkel 47E but on the rib it says:

SIMSON,SUHL (THURINGEN)

Would this gun be considered a Simson BLE or a Simson Suhl BLE?

What does the THURINGEN relate to?

Thanks for your help

Simson Werke-Suhl was the original company taken over by the Nazis due to its Jewish ownership and re-named Gustloff Werke, prior to & during the war. I don't know about the connection to Merkel Bros. founded in 1898 also in Suhl, but assume there is a direct link, the German Gun Collectors site can probably answer that much better.

Suhl in a town in Germany and Thuringen is an area or state in Germany.

Your gun woluld be a Simpson BLE.

Not much iformation, but hope its helps you out some.

Suhl = city in German/Saxon state of Thuringen/Thuringia.
after wwll it was part of East Germany.

Hitler confiscated Simson company due to Jewish ownership.
Ohters will chime in with history of the company during/after that time.You can find details by doing search pf past posts on Simson guns.

check wikipedia for Thuringia history.

check the date codes for when it was made. decent guns regardless and even better if pre-wwll. As to what to call it, eeither is correct.

LeeS,

The numbers stamped on the barrel flats are 169

I was told the Date of Mfg was January 1969

Thanks

The above data is essentially correct. Simson was actually forced by the Nazis to change their name two times after they were taken over. The first name change was to "BSW", I don't have my books in front of me just now, but as I remember that stood for Berlin Suhl Werke, no doubt I have improper spelling, but that was the jist of it. They operated as BSW for only 2 or 3 years or so, then changed again to Gustloff Werke, again, that's the jist of the name, it could have been slightly different in the proper spelling. According to the German Gun Collectors Association, Simson was the largest gun maker in Europe in the years prior to WWII. There was ample logic for the Nazis to take over the plants and continue their operation, rather than just close them down. Simson factories no doubt added greatly to the store of weapons used by the German armies. Their shotguns greatly resembled Sauer side by side designs and Merkel over and under designs. Some have suggested that Sauer and Merkel furnished the actions "in the white" to Simson, but that has become greatly debated. If Simson was the largest maker in pre war Europe, they certainly had the capability to produce their own actions, some suggesting they were licensed by Sauer and Merkel to reproduce their designs. I personally think that makes much more sense than buying actions from smaller competitors. At any rate, Simson guns, under any name, are considered very nice guns (depending on the actual grade) and are to be prized as shooters. I have several and think highly of them.

ChiefShotguns,

The pictures I added above is the Simson I just received and it's identical to my Merkel 47E.The Champlin Arms website last year noted in one of their ads for a Simson they had for sale that in the late 60's J.J. was personally in the Merkel factory in Suhl and seen Simson and Merkel SxS being made in the same factory.That could explain why this gun looks like a Merkel.

Regards

After WWII and duing hard times, all were lumped under Buhag & you see Simson, Merkel and etc. guns.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I have a 16ga BSW double with a horn trigger guard that was made during the Nazi regieme in the 30s. I purchased the shotgun from the vet that brought it back at wars end. It is very similiar to the one pictured above.
Jim

Posted for Raimey


Pete

Thanks PeteM for the assistance.

Here is a lethal combo of a Simson/August Schuler Buhag(similar frame to 47) and a Shorthair. A fine day afield today.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Obviously a day in which a haystack could be hit. I really like the photograph. BTW, your bud does not appear to need the orange collar, but what do I know? Perhaps that is the only reason he/she sat for the pic;-)

A seriously great photograph. The stain through the wrist, if that's what it is, adds some thot to the hours afield; dogs good & less that may have been forcing the line and causing remarkable useage of the language lost to the wind and the dog, at the time, and the triumph of a brace at day's end honestly come by and hard won.

All this Nazi stuff causes me not to even look at German guns - bad voodoo in 'em all eh! I look to gentler climes and kinder days for mine.

tw:

Well phrased and true, true words. Yes, Purdey is wearing correction jewelry and usually doesn't require the correction mode as on this hunt she had at least 5 birds in her column. It is really for her safety seeing it has a tone feature that I use as a rapid return signal. No matter where you hunt in North Alabama, even on Wheeler Wildlife Refugee, there is vehicle traffic. Actually, I fought the idea of a correction collar until last year because I had seen it misused so. Also, those hay rolls are her pigeon perch where we wait for the pigeon's afternoon fly-over to a farm to the South.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse