The last post by Chuck got me thinking and learning about the last great gun deal I made. It is an 1890 Fishtail lever Parker one frame hammer gun that is a bit off face. I have it apart and I have learned a lot so far. Always wondered what that pin was in the middle of the water table. Just figured out it stops the gun from opening all the way. Neat the way one of the lumps grabs it when you open the gun. I am a mechanically inclined sort of guy but there is only so much time in the day and I finally figured it was time to learn a bit about the inside.

So I wiggled and tugged and found that there is about .003 between the barrels and the standing breach (used the old feeler gauges from my car fix it days). But the barrels also lift about .006. I can get a .006 feeler gauge between the barrel flats and water table when the gun is closed. The hook, hinge pin and the locking bolt and matching slot do not show any obvious visible wear signs I have seen on other guns. Everything looks pretty smooth. I realize that there could be nice even wear. I wonder if this gun needs work on the hook or the locking bolt or both. Thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.

Put a piece of paper on the hook and a drop of oil to hold it. See if it locks up tight, it may and the lever could still be left of center, not a big deal. If its tight after adding the piece of paper but the lever is left, the locking bolt and lug are showing wear, again not a problem. If the lever to left bothers you it can be fixed by adding to the bolt. Hard to say without seeing it.
Steve

Steve,
Thanks for taking the time to answer. I did as you suggested and it felt a little tight. Maybe my imagination. Measured the paper at .003 and tried newspaper at .002. When it closes it feels and looks tight but the barrels are a couple of thousandths high at the upper outboard position (if that makes sense)of the breech balls. There is still about .006 or so between the bottom of the barrels and the water table. I can see some light at the intersection of the standing breach and water table.

Sounds like the hook is about .002" worn, not a huge deal really. It can be fixed, or you could wait a bit. Everything slese sounds correct.
Steve

Should I use the feeler gauge .002 leaf and try black max adhesive. The feeler gauge steel is quite stiff and springs back if you try to bend it. Would it be harder than the hinge pin?

I have little to no experience with this method....others can advise better.
Steve

I have three Parkers and all needed shiming. Cut a .002 or .003 piece of shim to fit on the pin, bend it a bit and see if it makes it tight when put together. Once you get a tight fit, get some Loctite 380 from Brownells and glue it in place. I use 240 grit to score the glue surface of the shim and the hook and put some holes in the shim to allow the Loctite somewhere to go. Clean with acetone and a felt tip marker can be used to hold the shim in place. When clamped with a C-clamp, the marker will expand to fill the hook . Sometimes you'll only need the shim on the very center of the hook and some on the top or bottom will have to be honed off. On one gun I had to shim on the side of the lug. Give it a try, it's not hard to do - Paul

Mike Orlen did a very good treatise on shimming the hook at shotgunworld.com years ago.Basically do as the above suggest and when you have determined the shim required solder it into position using a pinpunch to hold the shim in place.Then dress the metalwork back for a practically invisible repair.As bladesmith points out it usually only requires metal at the central area of the hook curve.Which is why I prefer Tig welding and filing it back.

I could not find the Mike Orlen treatise on shims. Anyone have a copy they can send me?

Be careful before you assume that it is the Pin. The last two or three that I have repaired found that it was not the pin and hook,but the locking bolt-under barrel surface.I had the locking bolt or surface area under the barrel TIG welded and filed to fit for the solution.If there is front to back movement it is the pin-hook,but just up-down at the firewall it will be the locking bolt

When the gun is closed it moves more up and down more than in and out. I can put .003 and .004 (which is a little tight) in the space between the barrels and standing breach.

When I put a .002 thick piece of oiled paper on the hook and put the gun back together it seems to lock up tight with no vertical movement of the barrels.

I originally thought it was the bolt but after doing the above suggestion from SKB it looks like it is the hook. I am a bit unsure about shimming the hook but I don't think it will do any harm.

On another note, I have a friend who is an auto body man and is quite gifted with a mig welder. He wants to look at the hook tomorrow. I usually see tig welders discussed here. Would there be a problem with a mig welder doing this work?

The problem you have with any welding is the dissipation of the heat affecting the soldered ribs, barrels, hook etc. IF you place steel bars in the barrels, steel blocks adjacent to the welding area to act as heat sinks and perhaps wrap the barrels with a wet rag you SHOULD be okay.It really depends on the welders skill if he gets it set up properly and just runs a bead cleanly and efficiently you will be okay.Remember to prevent welding spatter with Mig. He'll know what to do.Good luck.

I always heard a bit of a gap between the two flats[bbl & action]was a good thing, and that Guns were built this way,
franc

You'd be crazy to use a MIG welder. It 'could' work but it's like using a coal shovel to feed a kid his oatmeal. I wouldn't let him within 10 feet of a Parker with it.

He agrees with you Greg. Back to shims. We did have a good time stripping it down competely, cleaning it up and seeing where the wear is. It could last another 100 years but no doubt some repairs on the worn parts in the next fifty years will be required.

Franc, I think a .003 shim will leave .006 between the barrels and the water table.

You can curl feeler gauge spring steel just the same way you curl a ribbon with a pair of scissors--take a metal straightedge, hold the feeler blade flat against it with your thumb, and pull the straightedge out along the feeler blade. It will curl right up, and you can cut it with a pair of scissors to fit. The harder you push the tighter the curl. I have never had any luck gluing them in place. Instead, I just seat them against a drop of gungrease and leave the gun together. Dont know about the watertable play--never had it.

Thanks for the trick LP. I will try that tomorrow.

The MIG is WAY too hot for this job. Take the forend off and hold the barrels down on the watertable and see if there is any movement back and forth. I suspect there is none .The English guns quite often get loose first in the locking bolt in my experience

I did as you suggested. No more back and forth movement. Noticed I could push the locking bolt from the rear. Was able to push it almost an 1/8". When I do it is tight and a .002 feeler gauge gets stuck between the breech and the barrels. The lever is a bit left of center and there is wear on all the parts related to the bolt. I don't think there is any way to make up for the wear on the small moving parts but it seems that if I add material to the bolt or the slot in the lump I could then file it down until it works correctly. Is it easier to do the slot?