I have located a nice Purdey pigeon gun. While I wanted a game gun, this may be a nice alternative. The gun appears to be all original and retains most of the original case coloring. I plan to use the gun for clays and upland bird hunting. Any suggestions or comments about purchasing a pigeon gun over a game gun? Below are the stats from Purdey.

I have looked the 12 bore Purdey hammerless self opening non ejector gun no 15404 in our records & have found the following information:
Completed in October 1895 for Mr B. Thayer.
30" barrels, 2 7/8" chambers, shot with 1 1/4oz no.6 shot, chokes right modified choke left full choke.
Provision for fitting ejectors.
3rd grip & clip sides to action.
Original stock length 14 1/8" mid.
Original weight of gun 7lb 10oz.
We have no record of having fitted new barrels or a new stock to this gun.
I hope this information is useful.
Yours sincerely

At 7lbs 10ozs it will get heavy quickly. But, it is a Purdey pigeon. They're not all that common. It'd make a very nice waterfowl gun for decoying.

Yes Sir, that would be one classy Sporting Clays/Target Gun!
I think its a good weight for clays...& I bet the pride n pleasure of hunting with a fine vintage Purdey might make it not so heavy for birds, eh?.
And Pigeon Guns were often a makers best work.
Go get 'er mate..& I hope you love it.
Any Pics??
Cheers
Franc

Ken - careful here. You must resolve for yourself if you have the strength and stamina to tote such a gun in your shooting. I am having very good success with a NID 4E of (now) 9# 2oz. But, I'm experimenting. Do you have any background data on how well you like/shoot heavier guns?

I'll run you some likely handling numbers later. Short on time at the minute.

From a condition perspective this sounds like a very nice gun that hasn't been mucked with. I know you have been looking for a Purdey in this condition for quite some time. IMO the really critical question you have to ask yourself (and you are the only one who can answer) is whether you really want a pigeon gun (as opposed to a light game gun.)

If you are looking for the "perfect" upland game gun, this one might be a bit heavy if your hunts involve a lot of walking (and you are comfortable swinging a lighter gun.) If you really want a Purdey, first consideration, as opposed to a "perfect" game gun, this one sounds like a beauty. It does sound like it will make a very nice clays gun.

Again, how big a a deal this configuration (weight, no ejectors) is for what you want to use it for can only be answered by you.

FWIW, I'd get it. Pigeon guns are much less common than game guns. I have not found an extra lb or weight or lack of ejectors a significant hinderance. And sometime they can be a real help, especially on the clays field.

Good luck,
Ken

I shoot a lot of box birds, and so have become a huge fan of the big pigeon guns. In the condition you describe, that Purdey is a magnificant thing. You will find, if still choked as original, that it will likey be a tough mistress as target gun. Those lads at the turn of the century knew how to build chokes and both my Cashmore and Greener shoot very tightly indeed. Both are wonderful on Kansas pheasants and waterfowl. You likely will find it tricky on a clays course on some of those 15-20 yard close targets. That said, I would strongly urge you to make that one yours.

Condition is everything, it sounds like a beauty. If you love it, do it now. Later may be too late.

Jim

If you are considering having the ejectors made,it will cost about 20,000 dollars to have Purdey do it. They will also have to anneal the action, rebuild parts of it and then case harden. The ejector system on the presently built guns is in no way the same as on this gun. The gun will no longer be original.
If the price be right, buy it and enjoy on clays, as it is.
Best,
John

Wow, $40,000 USD for ejectors? I thought $5K would have been the price. Regardless, I would leave the gun original and have no interest in ejectors.

Ken

As mentioned, It all depends on what you want from the gun, and only you can decide.
IMO, this would be the gun I would have from Purdey.
A Purdey pigeon gun is my must have.
Hope you go for it, and have lot's of fun with it.

HM

7 and 10 is not that heavy. About the same as a Superposed standard weight. You will enjoy that weight on the clays course, and everytime you pull the trigger on a real pheasant load.

The choke issue is a non-issue. Anyone with the coin to buy a Purdey can afford spreader loads one would hope! Home-rolled spreaders cost a whopping 2 cents more than standard shells, if you want to load your own. I've been known to shoot skeet with a modified/full Fox using spreaders and they do perform well.

Owning an extractor gun would not bother me one bit.

Buy it, just so we can see pix of it and your smiling face behind it.

This sounds like you've finally found a keeper. From a weight perspective, you'll likely soon be able to tell if the handling suits you; we can't comment on that. I mean, take a look a some of the Italian guns being used for upland birds...is the weight feel all that different? If you put it up to your shoulder, does it feel right especially as compared to what you've tried in game guns? From a value, aethetics, and durability perspective, a Purdey pigeon gun in good shape would be hard to beat. Nice barrel length. How's the wood for you? On paper, it's hard to beat this gun.

Update.

I am having the gun sent to Alfred Gallifent to be inspected. The only issue with the gun at this time relates to several "dents" on the barrel. I am keeping my fingers crossed on this one.

Ken

SORRY !!! I mistyped. I meant 20,000 dollars. Still a lot of money to take the originality from a masterful gun. This is the price quoted by Purdey, to a friend that needed the work done, in the past few weeks.
I will edit my post.
Best,
John

John:

$20K is still a lot of money. Hell, even at $5K I would pass just because it would ruin the originality of the gun.

Ken

Ken, the gun sounds very nice and something that will always be desirable in the future. My only caution would be that being a pigeon gun it is likely to be quite high stocked for rising birds,
ie trap shooting dimensions.Personally this would not work for me.I shoot a Scott Monte Carlo B SLE pigeon gun for sporting clays and occasionally for ducks and pheasants, however I re-stocked the gun
to more typical North American field dimensions with more drop at comb and heel.This works very well for me.We are all different and
this gun may be perfect for you,but stock fit is sooooo important.
Good luck in your pursuit. Terry

Still chasin' thim Purdeys eh!
There are some great 2nd tier London guns about.
I'd tell them snobs at Purdey to kiss my a#% for 20,000.00 worth of ejectors - The old chaps have sold their guns, and there ain't any new chaps in ol'Londontowne!
Remember the Flock of Seagulls?

Mr. Glenthorne

I agree that their are many great 2nd tier London guns. I located a Stephen Grant Best gun in mint condition but the price was more than a Purdey.

If this Purdey Pigeon gun is as advertised it is a good gun. It appears to be all original. Alfred will verify this later in the week. I will be inspecting the gun personally to see if it floats my boat.

Ken

I was just thinking of the Stephen Grant 1890 ejector Kirby found that is in great condition...prices are amazing on these things.

There was a really nice Stephan Grant Best Gun from 1925 that looked new. I would have purchased the gun in lieu of a Purdey but they wanted $30K.

Ken

Ken,
If that Grant is still available I wouldn't count it out just because it doesn't have the "Purdey" name engraved on it. It should be the same old story of "buy the gun not the name". Considering the condition of the US economy, and in fact financial markets world wide, it is hard to believe any dealer (or individual) is so "flush" they wouldn't be open to a little negotiation on price. Just a thought.

The Grant gun is sold. It went quick because it was a like new gun.

I went Purdey shopping for a time, the ones within my price range all had condition and other problems.
A hard gun to buy on the cheap - really good Purdeys, are really expensive - no matter how you cut it!

Lowell's probably all too right about that as far as dealers and collectors are concened. Widows and profligate children are another matter, if you have the stomach for such a quest...Geo

We haven't touched upon it, but London bonuses and the currency rates are killing prices right now. I am willing to bet that we should observe a bump in high end guns now. Also, my observation is that there are less of the top condition guns on the market. That's why the pigeon gun is frankly attractive.

I just got the inspection report. I am going to personally inspect the gun and to see if the gun fits me tomorrow.

Ken

Pics please!!
Mike

I will post lots of pics tomorrow. I do not know if I am going to purchase this gun. I have yet to see and hold the gun. Regardless, I will post lots of pics.

Ken

Yes, please do.

Also, tell us what you like and dislike about the feel of this gun compared to the others you've come across on your search.

kdross,

Please give us an update on your Purdey Pigeon gun find. I as well as many others have followed your quest to find the perfect gun for you. I look forward to hearing the "next chapter" in your story.

The Purdey pigeon gun was absolutely perfect and 100% original as documented by Purdey. It was much nicer than I imagined. If anyone wants a Purdey pigeon gun this is the one to have. For a modest amount of money this gun is a 100% original Purdey with 90% case coloring, original barrels, original stock and it has the original leather and oak case.

For me, a gun has to appeal to your heart and emotion. There has to be romance. This pigeon gun did not have these qualities. It was a beautiful gun. It was original. It was also heavy and not well balanced. The lack of balance bothered me more than the weight. The stock was also 1 ½ inches too short. If I had the spare change it would be home with me right now. However, I can only afford one gun and I want a game gun.

I have held many game guns but did not have the opportunity until today to compare a pigeon gun to a game gun. Today I was able to hold a Purdey and H&H game gun along with the pigeon gun. The pigeon gun felt great when I first held it. Felt a little heavy and a little off balance, but not bad. Then I held a Purdey and H&H game gun. Wow. What a difference. The game gun made the pigeon gun feel really heavy and poorly balanced. One of the game guns had a long stock and it fit me like a glove!

I am sending the pigeon gun back. It did not win my heart. It would make a great clays gun if I had the money. To have purchased the gun would not have satisfied my desire for a London Best Game Gun. I would have been purchasing the gun just for the name and condition of the gun. Buyer’s remorse would have soon followed. It is ashame becease it really was a great gun. How many 100% original Purdey pigeon guns from 1895 can their be that still have 90% original case coloring and the original case?

So the search continues.

After 2 years of searching I have at least narrowed the field as to the gun I would like. My ideal gun is going to be a Purdey game gun with ejectors, self-opening, 28" barrels, weights no more than 6 3/4 pounds, has a 15 1/2" LOP (will probably have to be restocked) and good barrels (.025 or better). A 20 bore would be ideal, but my budget is already stressed for a nice 12 bore.

Ken

Where's it at and what's the price ?

I am not surprised, the London gamegun is and has been the bread n butter of the trade. The gentle old money had the best at the estates, the bar room brawlers and whoremongers had the pigeon guns for clubs.
Hey wait a minute!

I too would like to know where it's at. Was hoping to see the pictures, as you said, you do not run across these just every day or so.

I'm with you Joe.

Do tell us where to find this modestly priced gun Ken. I presume the seller would be grateful if you passed along the information to those of us who do appreciate those overweight, out of balance monstrosities.

British Sporting Arms in NY. Asking price is $19K.

Sorry but I did not take any pics. Since I was not going to purchase the gun I did not take any pictures.

Ken

Thanks a lot Ken. Can't tell the rib configuration from the pictures on the site if it is the one pictured, but I am guessing a purpose built wildfowl gun vice a pigeon. The two Purdey pigeon guns that I have actually held were choked very, very tightly and were longer in the barrel. Unless these were openned, they don't fit the typical formula. I am also surprised by the stock length. No doubt bespoke, but could have been set up for someone wearing heavy clothes. Would have to see it. Interesting gun, and if the condition is right, then a very reasonable price. Those chokes also make it an almost ideal general purpose gun for modern ammunition. A leather covered pad and it could be a very useful thing indeed.

If I recall the chokes were .032 and .026.

Ken it is good to see someone willing to follow his heart and postpone purchase until his specification is truly met. So many get stars in their eyes and wind up with less than their hearts desire because the lose patience.

You will savor the quest long after the gun becomes old hat.

It's not a good idea to buy a vintage gun that doesn't fit or suit your needs.

That's true, but that hasn't stopped many, myself included, in doing just that before.

It's stopped me more than once.

I wish I had the money to purchase the gun. It was such a nice gun and in amazing original condition. However, I am working with liminted funds and want a game gun first.

Ken

What does

"provision for fitting ejectors" mean?

Could lessen the cost if you wanted to move that forward?

I am glad that my friend in pigeon shooting, Joe Taylor, is participating in this thread. I have recently found and purchased a very late Purdey exposed hammer, Whitworth barrelled, pigeon gun, not far from home, his old home and my present home. This gun is one of the last, and quite a find.

What we have here is ejector-less Purdey pigeon gun in top shape. Ejector-less usually means fowler even if a fancy one, but here we have info from Prudey stating otherwise. This along with Holland & Holland, Churchill,.... is very, very expensive and delivery times when ordered new build to measure. Many people buy second-hand to save money and avoid long delivery time or both. I applaud original poster from walking away. I would say when money is object as it is for most Purdey of London isn't a good place to start. America is full of all kind of guns so there is no reason to rush. For me it has been several years to finally buy double gun to replace last one I sold. It has been long but fun filled journey. If you are patient I'm sure you will find something nice that suits you. Good luck on your journey.

Ken's evaluation of the Purdey was interesting as he said that the gun's weight and balance was not to his liking.

I'm thinking that the original owner told Purdey at the time of build that this is what I want and this is how I want it balanced. So Purdey built it that way.

Individually hand crafted means individually hand crafted.

Joe Taylor, I sent you a PM regarding another matter and hope to hear from you.

Interesting thread but it's 9 years old. What caused you to respond to it now, Eightbore?

I wanted to brag to my friend Joe Taylor that I had found the ultimate Purdey pigeon gun. Joe is the pigeon shooter's pigeon shooter, owns and uses wonderful English double guns. Bill Murphy

Eightbore, it sounds lovely, could you throw up a few pictures for us???
We'd all like to see a nice Purdey Hammer Gun!
cheers
franc

Yup, I'll second that. If you are going to brag, do it properly with pics! LOL