Recently aquired an older 12 ga. smith..my info. indicates it was made sometime in 1911 (serial# 38xx). The barrels say "armor steel" underneath. Am wondering if modern loads are OK in this gun? Also, would this year of manufactor tell chamber length.. and if not is there a way for me to tell if I have 2.5 0r 2.75 inch chambers? Thanks for any advice. Matt

Hello and welcome to the BBS.
NO. Modern American Nitro loads(average pressures well above 11,000PSI ) are too pressure heavy for this gun.
The pressures you must look to shoot are 9000 PSI and below. Closer to 7000 would be better on both the metal and especially the wood.
Many things may have been done to the gun since it left the factory. Take it to a good SxS smith and have it checked out. He will measure everything and then there will be no doubt.
Many companies sell CIP (European standard pressure) shells, so unless you reload there is plenty of shells for this gun.
If you treat it right, you will have a shooter for life.
Best,
John
PS---Remember that low brass has nothing to do with the pressure generated by the fired shell.

probably 2 9/16". It can be lengthened

Pete:
Don't you agree that lengthening the chamber is really not necessary?
Best,
John

What are the potential problems of not lengthening chambers?

sonny243:
There are no problems. It is perfectly alright to shoot 2 3/4 inch shells in your gun if the barrels are sound. Leave the chambers as they are and have a ball.
Best,
John

I believe most Smiths are 2 3/4". I have a 1905 with them.

According to the Hunter Arms catalogs all 12ga LCs are 2 3/4 except for the 3" guns which are marked. WARNING 20GA, 16GA AND 410 MAY BE SHORT CHAMBERS!! It is best to check the chambers and have the wall thickness checked on guns you are unsure of, best to be safe than sorry.

Jim

give it a good look at your self, look at the barrels inside and out,look at the breech face , look for dent and bulges.look at the recoil shields for pits look at the ribs see if it looks original and not messed with(solder where it shouldnt be )check the stock for cracks (behind the lock plates)if you have an other gun you know is in good condition use it as a referance good luck. mc

From the beginning, LC 12g chambers were 2 3/4", unless otherwise marked, and we've found one marked 2 5/8"


Lots of information here http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/faqhome.html

Isn;t that an unusual serial number for a !2 bore? Smith, made in 1911.MDC

Well done MD
It's a 1919 gun per http://www.lcsmith.org/shotguns/manufacture.html
If the receiver is stamped OO, O, 1, etc. it's pre-1913. If stamped 'Field', 'I', 'S', etc. it's post 1913.

Drew, neat to find one with those chambers. I brightened the picture up to get more information on it. First I thought it was a 1945 gun, left over parts when Marlin took over. Then realized that the lug was a Regular frame. So the final findings were 1906 ejector gun with the second style joint check (barrel stop), a real nightmare if the little spring breaks. I'm guessing someone had it made, for what I don't know.
It has been argued that some of the trap guns were ordered with 3" chambers and then shot with 2 3/4" loads to give a better pattern going through the forcing cones on the way to the chokes. Why a 2 5/8" chamber, anybodies guess.

According to drawings in the L C Smith "Plans & Specifications" book standard chamber lengths were 10ga 2 7/8" 12ga 2 3/4" 16ga 2 9/16" & 20ga 2½". The .410 as I recall was first added @ 2½" & later increased to 3" with both 16 & 20 ga's also eventually being upped to 2 3/4".
I would not think increasing the chamber length would have a pattern "Tightening" effect in the days of card & felt wadding. Almost every sourse I ever heard thought the reverse to be true. Many Gunmakers of the day intentionally "Short-Chambered their guns for the purpose of "Improved Patterns".

2-piper, only going along with what I have read. Another thing is why would avid trap shooters in the 20's buy 3" chambered guns. There had to be a reason, and I don't think it was that the gun was to be used for geese or ducks. These guys were pretty fanatical about the way their guns patterned.

Chamber length is discussed 'at length' by Researcher and others here
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1983

A short chamber and a steep forcing cone will increase recoil and in a LCS this is bad for the head of the stock. Metal wise a LCS is strong but they have a weak stock so it is vital to hold down recoil by using light loads and modifying the chamber. The cost to restock a LCS is often more than the value of the gun.
bill

JDW;
Shell cases of 3" length were readily available in the 20's. Unless you have absolute knowledge they were in fact using shorter shells in those guns I would think they were likely loading them with the longer hulls to allow a longer wad column for better gas sealing. Card & Felt wadding simply would not obturate enough in the "Gap" to allow for a perfect gas seal,, thus allowing gas to enter the shot charge, not a factor known to increase patterning ability. A longer column would better bridge the gap across the forcing cone.
Otherwise I would simply mark it off to one of the idiosyncrasies of trap shooters & take it with a "Grain of Salt" regardless of the noteriety of the trap shooter.

Thanks everyone for your input...very helpful