I just recently purchased an old Bernardelli 12 gauge shotgun. I'm looking to find out any information regarding this gun. The gun is fully engraved, straight stock w/ fine line checkering, double barrel sxs, 2 3/4 chambers, full & extra full chokes, serial # 31XXX, ejectors, 27 1/2 inch barrels, jeweling on the inner parts, original butt plate w/ name and logo.

Roma 6 BLE-Anson & Deeley type gun with hidden 3rd fastener.

Welcome to the board, Grace and thanks for posting. We always like to see pictures.

John

The Roma series was available with English or pistol grip stock. In 12, 16 or 20 gauge and extractor or for extra cost ejector.
In 1972 a Roma 6E was selling for 198,000 Lira in Italy from Bolaffi, a large dealer in Turin. If you take the barrels off you will see a proof mark that indicates the date.
It is sometimes simply stamped with the year. Other times, they used a date code.




Pete

This gun was probably made before I was born and it cost approx. $177 in Europe. For comparison soon to be mine Brownie 3" Mag. aka "Kaaabooom----Baaang" cost $340.

If you're interested in this brand check out L. Brown's article entitled The Guns of Vincenzo Bernardelli-Profiling one of Italy's Oldest Makers in Sept/October 2003 issue of Shooting Sportsman Magazine.

Side-plated boxlock - forend iron pin looks like Southgate ejectors. Hope your VB Roma 12 gives you as much joy over many years as my VB Hemingway 20.

Sure looks like a top of the line sidelock to me!

I'm having a bit of a problem with this also. I know the Italians made a lot of boxlock guns with false sideplates but this does not appear to be one of them.
Jim

It's not stocked to fences. Alas, when Madam or Mademoiselle breaks it open after firing that big pin under "elli" will not turn ie the cocking indicator is a fake one.

Right - no false sideplates here, just true sideplates. The gun is a boxlock. You aren't the first to be fooled - a local gunsmith had a consignment Roma 6 tagged as a sidelock, and I had to prove it was a boxlock before he'd change the tag!

I was almost fooled by sideplated Vouzelaud 315, but during re-cocking the cocking indicators did not turn as they should in true SL gun having them.

Where can I find L. Brown's article. I don't have that issue.

There are an awful lot of pins.

So, is it being said that there are no Italian flatback sidelocks? Certainly the Brits used a flatback design for many sidelocks. If I see an Italian flatback sidelock I can be sure it is a sideplated boxlock?

No, just that V. Bernardelli made some sideplated boxlocks that look remarkably like sidelocks. But VB also made some nice genuine sidelocks, so you really have to know what you're looking at.

I know they made many models.
Roma models 3 to 9 - false sidelock
Holland VB to VB Gold - sidelock

There maybe other sidelocks or false side plate models that I am not aware of. If there are, it would be helpful to post some info.

The Holland VB Gold was a special order only custom gun that started around $40,000 and went up from there.

Pete

I wonder what a false sideplate looks like? Why would anyone want to make something that looks like a sideplate but isn't really a sideplate?

Another dead giveaway is the large floor plate that gives access to the A&D mechanism,....most A&D boxlocks will have a large floor plate such as this one

Take a look at the 1st and 5th pictures

CJ

I owned a Las Palomas pigeon gun (two barrel set) for a short time. It had genuine side plates, pins and all, a sidelock from all apppearances. Gun was beautifully made, alas very heavy and a friend was delighted to relieve me of it.