Anyone know anything about this stuff? Is it for real?

https://www.hortonguns.com/?page_id...vC0hQpR7Lx8uEgdehzEH4Bx9dGP9YazIdQYnL9B8

It's for real, how well it works, costs, etc I can not say. I'm still a lead guy, all the other options are a compromise I'm not willing to make unless forced. I don't hunt waterfowl and stick to places that me, my Holland and lead shot are welcome. I know some of you play different games, this just might be the ticket for your needs.

I sure hope it's real. I'm no metallurgist, but there should seem to be a work-around for all this lead-based insanity. Hopefully this a good 1st step.

The video seems odd. Red hot bars of something seems unlikely for something that soft. I did not see any shot.

You might want to contact them, they are very responsive. I will be offering sleeving(of guns already in the UK, I'm not shipping them over for sleeving) through Horton's in the future.

They’ve been talking about Hortonium for over a year. Last I read, they are looking for a manufacturer. They estimate the price to be a little less than bismuth.

Ken

I wouldn't get too excited about this.
JR

I had never heard of it but if it is the same cost as bismuth, I am not sure as the advantage. They try to address this with all the testing concerning fracture but this seems to be a problem no one has reported. The rest of the discussion seems to center around a problem that has already been solved. Modern mono controlled expansion bullets have pretty much revolutionized the whole world of hunting to the extent that the entire killing power results relative to caliber have changed. With a price near bismuth you would end up with expensive old technology bullets. That is a flat no go.

Mono-metal bullets have a place but they do not solve all problems and can certainly damage old rifles with thin tubes like vintage doubles, even newer double have been damaged by them.

We need competition in the non lead marketplace.

We need innovation, state of the art alchemy, and manufacturing processes to take advantage of it.
The volumes have to be there.


I have taken to shooting Bismuth exclusively when traveling, and I run through about 1000 cartridges in the year.

Overall it’s a small expense compared to other things.

The Hotyonium literature states that the more malleable a projectile the more kinetic energy is transferred to and used to penetrate the target. I do not believe this to be true. The more dense and rigid a projectile is the more it retains its kinetic energy allowing penetration until an equal and opposite 'push back' is reached. If a projectile is very malleable the projectile flattens against the target displacing the kinetic energy over a larger area with less kinetic energy applied against any single point of the target thus less penetration.

I think it is slightly more complex than that, but suffice it say that the numbers in the table are very appealing when compared with lead an bismuth, never mind steel.

Agreed, it is far more complex however I tried to keep it a simple as possible without writing a paper to explain it completely. Unfortunately it may be some time before we see the Hortonium shot in stores since they seem be be focusing on bullet and shell manufacturers.

Style points Steve, magananimous and tastefully bitter. I like it, direct, agree completely.

Some things never go out style Craig.....A ponytail, a comfy pair of Birkenstocks, Granola, Best quality British falling block rifles.....and the Rolling Stones. I'll be there in June, hanging with my old pal Keith, hope to see you there

A step ahead of you, I'll wave to you from over by the thing. You keep the ptail, Clapton wuz mo bettah, 4 the spelling teach.

How is this stuff made, cold fusion?

It seems to be unobtainium to me.

What a bunch of nattering nabobs of negativity!

Just on general principles this crowd should be automatically supportive of Horton’s efforts. Or am I missing that there is a plethora of shot makers working to come up with a good, inexpensive alternative to lead.

Just the norm for this crowd, wouldn't you say? It certainly sounds intriguing to me, and with 4 different manufacturers on three continents, it seems plausible that we might see some of it sooner than later.

It may not be a good, inexpensive alternative to lead. It's own claims put it a bit off of bismuth? prof has a point, if it can retain bar form at an apparent red heat, thay are probably looking at the boutique rifle bullet market, rather than many inexpensive inexpensive little spheres?

Sounds good, I'll be in the center of the thing, will you be on the far right in the red cap like usual? See you there.

First, if my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle. It may not be good. You are right. But it also may be good. You don’t know yet. I don’t know yet. But I’m certainly not going to crap on them or nit pick because they are trying.

Maybe it does work out only to be useful as a rifle bullet. And that would be a bad thing how? My original point stands.

In regard to the red hot billets in the factory promo video, my first assumption was it was a billet of some other un kown material just to display the workings of the production facility???.... maybe I didn't watch it long enough but I didn't see any shot or bullet end product

I had the same thought, but why show it in this context? In any event, I'm looking forward to seeing some final product. I wonder if someone in Britain has actually had their hands on this stuff. Maybe Diggory?

I wonder and hope that there are other entrepreneurs out there doing the same.

No big deal cback, I never pooed on it. If we already have bismuth, that works in shotgun shells, here's hoping it can be maufactured more uniformly and inexpensively vs sell us on why the premium for maleability? In rifle bullets, I never said it would not be useful, but if it is perfectly what it is, the company laid out a chart of down grades from lead.

It seems more to be an alternative to steel, for the puposes of the nontoxic shot market, than lead, and we don't know if it will be inexpensive.

My point Steve, isn’t that it’s a perfect substitute for lead. Or even a better bismuth. It’s that someone is spending creative effort and money in the non tox sector. This is a bad thing? Because it’s not perfect? F me! We should be celebrating this and hoping there are 20 more entities working away on the problem.

You made the back of my head itchy, had to check twice, but no ponytail, whew. Don’t mind me, I am cautiously celebrating on the inside.

Were you addressing me James? I'm good with it, the more product development the better. For my purposes, lead is still the best thing going, for others who have different needs, this stuff might be just the ticket.

It was just a typo that I was poking fun at. We’re all good with it, but maybe not enough to invest in the product. Cautious optimism, if they insert themselves into the practical middle of that niche market, they could do far worse than compete on price. Hmmmm, you aren’t skirting CO game laws out on sovereign ground, are you?

Not particularly Steve. Didn’t pick up the same negativity I did from a number of other posts.

27 minutes into this youtube is an article about this material from the horses mouth.

https://www.youtube.com/user/fieldsportschannel

I think when they were showing the hot bars they were showing that it was some type of metal. And they get the shot from the bars after it is tempered. But, I didn't see any shot either. I would think that when lead comes to a shot manufacturer, it comes in bars also wouldn't it?

I read about this a while back. I like Horton sxs’s. It sounded interesting. But I highly doubt they could produce enough to make it to our shores no matter what the verdict on it’s effectiveness eventually will be