I have a friend that just purchased a Boss O/U. It fires the top barrel first. Is that normal for Boss guns?

Pretty sure Boss will respond if you ask how it was specified. What is “normal” will be what the customer wanted.

Nice gun, I’m sure.

Best,
Ted

It’s for driven birds.

Yes that is their standard configuration, to this day, even. Robertson, the owner of Boss at the turn of the century and innovator of the famed O/U model, believed firing the top barrel first provided some benefits over the bottom barrel. I suspect your friend’s gun is a ST, but even with a DT, the front trigger fires the upper barrel.

Most of the world disagrees with Robertson about the advantages or disadvantages of firing the top barrel first, on incoming birds or on true doubles in clay shooting. I much prefer to shoot the bottom barrel first. Some top tier competition gunmakers set up their O/U guns to shoot the bottom first, with no means for switching. Perazzi's trap guns, which can have both barrels choked the same, often have no means to switch which barrel fires first, and fire the bottom first. My MX8 is that way, and I'm glad of it. Most seasoned O/U shooters understand that firing the bottom barrel first results in less muzzle jump (upwards) than firing the top one first. It is a small difference, but important enough that all the top NSCA sporting clays shooters I have been fortunate enough to get to know choke their guns for a particular station so the the appropriate choke for the first bird is in the bottom barrel.

There is supposed to be a difference in recoil direction with a S x S as well, according to which cheek the shooter has pressed into the stock/comb. But, in use, I distinguish the difference in recoil direction, between barrels, to be greater with an O/U than with my S x Ss. But, that may be my perception only.

In hunting conditions, and with double triggers, which I prefer for hunting, which barrel is fired first is of lesser importance than having the best choke instantly available by the choice of trigger, IMHO.

I would actually like very much to learn Robertson's reasoning for why the top barrel first is the best set-up. Does anyone have anything in writing/literature that would explain it?

While I can appreciate the appeal of the bottom barrel first, I've always chosen the top. In hunting situations, very often I'm only shooting once, and it has always seemed easier to quickly reload the top. My first O/U was a 101; bought it new for dove hunting around 35 years ago. The barrel selector switch made the choice easy.

I’ve had both fixed trigger Perazzis and Perazzis with the barrel selector on the tang with the safety. Out of habit I always would shoot the bottom barrel first (that’s what you’re supposed to do, right?) On the rare occasion in which I’d select the top barrel to fire first, I’d usually forget to switch the trigger back to the bottom barrel first. Only way I’d be reminded of this is when I glanced at the gun and realize the selector was on the top barrel. I never could tell from the recoil which barrel fired first. I’ve come to the conclusion that for most shooters barrel selection is not important, and for the most part choke selection isn’t either when shooting at targets. This goes for both SxS and OUs.

I think we here in the states fire the bottom barrel because it is more in direct line and supposedly slightly less recoil and barrel jump, BUT if you are shooting driven game and at times you only fire 1 shot it would be easier to open gun and replace top shell, close gun and be prepared for next chance.

Of course, the answer to this most complicated technical question is double triggers. For a philosophical answer, we can paraphrase the famous philosopher, Monte Walsh, " you can't have no idea how much I don't care".
Mike

I attempted to research why Robertson believed that the top barrel firing first seemed advantageous. I was sure I read it in Donald Dallas' Boss book, but couldn't find find it specifically mentioned. I was able to find this from an old IGC entry concerning why the top barrel received preference: "The reason given for this was that the top barrel is easier to re-load quickly than the lower barrel," although the article went on to mention that this was not modern practice due to "muzzle flip". I can honestly say that I don't notice any additional muzzle flip firing the top barrel over the bottom barrel. As for ease of reloading, the gape is really wide when you pop it open and it is very easy to reload one or both barrels. Of course with DT, barrel selection is not an issue. On mine, the lower barrel choke is .042 if and so you want to intentionally select that barrel on a long shot. Mike let us know if you noticed any muzzle flip when firing that top barrel first.

I can agree with that, as long as the barrels are choked tightly enough to crush any target thrown, regardless the distance. My MX8 is choked .020" and .020". No barrel selector needed, no fiddling with choke tubes, no wondering whether I have enough pattern density to break a target. Just load, focus, and kill it.

But, initially, I was talking about hunting conditions, and I think Robertson was, too. IMO, different chokes can be very important in many hunting scenarios, Michael McIntosh's statement notwithstanding.

One more point, the amount of muzzle flip has to do with a lot of things besides the shooter's ability to detect it, including the load and how the gun is stocked. You have to compare apples with apples.

It is a great same that you can not pop into the Sun and Thirteen Cantons and join Henderson, Bannister and Jack Wilkes having their after work "swift half" and get the answer straight from the horse's mouth!

Easier loading of the top barrel is as good a reason as any, but it’s all just marketing at the end of the day.

I don’t own a Boss O/U.

That said, I do own two Beretta single trigger O/U guns, and did own a poorly regulated Ruger Red Label, that had a selectable single trigger that I thought cost me some birds, until I patterned the damn thing, and figured out I didn’t stand a chance of getting the bird in any event. But, I hated that barrel selector in the safety that had to be swung left or right, and then slid forward. I sold the Red Label to the gunsmith who had the trailer next to Metro Gun Club, and swore he could get the thing to print where it belonged, but, I never found out if he did, and recently heard Paul had died, so, that will remain a mystery. The Silver Snipe trigger is non selective, and that ends that-you get what you get, which, surprisingly, is perfectly OK the great majority of the time. Bottom barrel first, top barrel next, mod and improved mod chokes, not a huge difference in pattern density out at 30 yards or so, anyway.

The BL-3 has the typical older Beretta selector that slides sideways built into the safety. At this point, I’m ambivalent about it, I imagine some shots I’ll remember it and take advantage, but, most of the time I’ll leave it on the more open bottom barrel and hope for the best.

The BL-3 is an attempt to find an off-the-rack double gun that handles like a repeater, I have found I shoot the repeaters better than my SXS guns, even though I don’t like that fact too much.

Not sure how I feel about a double trigger on an O/U. I usually grab them when it is cold out, and I need gloves. There aren’t lots of double trigger O/Us out there.




Best,
Ted

Marketing, and what you can make work. None of us are the same.

Best,
Ted

This...Geo

The perceived more difficult loading of the bottom barrel is no more than the additional agility needed for loading the left barrel of a S x S by a right handed man, IMO. After having put over 9K rounds through a Beretta 687 SPII in Argentina, over the course of 8 days, I can honestly say that I can remember no real additional difficulty in loading the bottom barrel over the top.

I guess its just a matter of personal preference. I like shooting the top barrel first. Most of my shooting is done on wild birds over my dogs.I have ejectors but don't use them as I don't like littering my hunting area with empty's.
I like to reload without looking at my breech and keeping an eye on my dogs and where the bird may have dropped or disappeared to.
The top barrel just seems to work best for me.
When I shoot dove many times I shoot the bottom barrel first just to even out the wear. Then again when I shoot dove I use the ejectors and eject most spent rounds into a 5 gallon bucket. Im not roaming around so those that miss the bucket get picked up when Im done shooting.

If you can't, or won't, teach yourself to trap the ejected empties in your hand, to deposit wherever you please, you shouldn't even enter a discussion about the value of ejectors. JMO, YMV. Anyway, what do you mean by "I have ejectors but don't use them"? Do you disable them? If you trap the empties in your hand, as I do, then you ARE using them. If not ..........?

QUOTE If you can't, or won't, teach yourself to trap the ejected empties in your hand, to deposit wherever you please, you shouldn't even enter a discussion about the value of ejectors.

Stan I hope you have a better day tomorrow. Not sure why this set you off.

Stan I am well versed on how to use ejectors. I have been shooting wild quail here in AZ for over 55 years and a lot of time over my dogs.
Anyway I thought this conversation was about which barrel top or bottom to shoot first.
My go to gun most of the time is my A10 20 gauge.
It has ejectors. I pop it open without kicking the top ejector. Then remove my shell ( top barrel) and slip another in. I handle it just like I do when I shoot an extractor gun. When I do fire the bottom barrel I crack the breech open all the way which is the only way to get clearance for the bottom empty and the ejectors kick right into my hand. I have gone all day and never fired the bottom barrel.
Sorry this is the way I do it, it works for me. This is my reason for shooting the top barrel first.
My error in not stating “most” of the time I don't use them.
ps what does YMV mean?

My post above was knee jerk and totally out of line. There was absolutely no reason for me to respond as I did to you, Ghostrider, and I ask for your forgiveness. I humbly apologize. My bad, all the way round. I have no excuse. I should have taken the time to read your well written post much more carefully than I did.


Stan

Thank you Stan. All is good. I appreciate your postings here as you contribute a lot to the discussions.

On the topic of O/U’s firing the top barrel first, I just tested my Edwinson Green ST and discovered that it also fires the top barrel first. I have owned it for years and hadn’t noticed the firing order. It was made as #2 of a pair, presumably for driven shooting. The chokes are mod/mod, so barrel selection is not an issue. Apparently more than one early O/U maker backed up Robertson on firing order preference. I wonder if the early Woodwards also fired this way…

I think most of us who know which end the shot comes out realize that opening an over under just far enough to reload the top barrel results in the gun not cocking the fired barrel. The only way to properly operate an over under is to fully open it after firing one or both barrels. Like Stan, I think "ghostrider" is making up his scenarios in the off season. I have seen shooters who have hunted for years but still haven't learned to catch their empties. Sorry, no apologies coming from me. Stan was a bit quick in apologizing when none were called for.

Bill thanks for your positive feedback. I am mistaken of course and the ejector does kick. I guess Because I have my hand over the cartridges I hadn't even noticed.my apologize to Stan.
I regret having even posting as it was not my intention to start a PP contest. This can be a tough forum at times.

Just for clarification it’s not our off season. Quail season is open until this Sunday.

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Ghostrider, thanks for the picture. That is a great looking pair of athletic pointers. Congratulations on living in quail country. I used to live in quail country. I never moved, but the quail did.

Its not as good as it has been this year, but it’s not about numbers as it once was. It’s more about getting out with the dogs and enjoying the outdoors the older I get. Have a great week. If I can get my 4 wheel drive actuator replaced today, I hope to get out a few more days before the season ends for the year.
Regards
Phil