Picked up an old Reilly as it was going cheap at auction so thought I'd take a punt.
It's actually in fairly decent order, though there is some play at lockup, but the barrels are sound and the bores are good with only some minor pitting.
Interestingly it seems to have 3-inch chambers and is also quite heavy at 7 ½ pounds.
No choke at all either. Standard London proof marks for the time.
I would have expected an underlever to be an early breechloader, however it has a deeley forend latch and smaller later type hammers.
Perhaps a later gun made in an earlier style for heavy ball loads?
Thoughts? Dates?
Cheers,
GDU

Forgot the interesting oval, any ideas what it says?

`without God,without anything` is the Welsh inscription on the oval I believe !

According to Argo44 the gun seems to date from 1883.

The motto seems to have been used by both the Jones and Lloyd families.

....not many to sift through there then !!!lol.

Greg, thanks for the post. As Mr, Imperdix noted, my dating chart would date it to December 1883. It is heavy for a Reilly shotgun and normally one would associate that weight with a pigeon gun. However no chokes and by 1883 Reilly was mostly using Whitworth Steel barrels for his pigeon guns. The gun has not been reproofed but somehow one doubts that the 3" chambers are original. If so that is very unusual if not unique.

The half-pistol grip is unusual. Reilly rarely used them on his shotguns. However, there are examples from this time period, mostly pigeon guns.

Beginning in 1882 Reilly bumped his production up from about 650 guns a year (throughout the 1860's and 1870's) to over 1,000 a year, probably because he decided to sell "off the rack" in addition to making bespoke guns. From this time period it's very possible that his boxlocks were being made in the white in Birmingham. Per the chart of extant guns on p.57 of the Reilly line, it appears that most of the guns from 1882-1883 time period were still U-L.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=597372#Post597372

There are a couple of things I'd like to know about the gun for the record, It has the New Oxford Street, London address but does it have rue Scribe, Paris as well? And, is there a patent use number on the Deeley fore-end?

Gene Williams

I’m sure that someone with the expertise will be able to look at the Crest and say which branch of which family. Unfortunately that ain’t me.

When you consider how few escutcheon plates end up being engraved, it does indicate a fairly prosperous first owner.

Thanks all, I've never seen many escutcheons engraved either, certainly not this nicely.
The top rib simply has the 16 new Oxford Street London.
Yes there is Deeley and edge patent stamped on the side of the forend latch.
Presumably then its a bespoke gun due to its unusual configuration, a heavy 12 bore half pistol grip that was made without choke.
Possibly also with 3 inch chambers. If they have been lengthened it was done many years ago, wall thickness at the chamber end is around 95 thou.
I seem to recollect seeing a gun with BALL stamped underneath, was this done at all when they were stamping "not for ball"?
Irrespective of chamber the weight and lack of any choke would suggest a specific purpose, and I'm guessing it was not uncommon to fire ball ammunition at the time, do you think it could have been for this purpose?

When I first saw the weight and the semi-pistol grip I wondered if it were originally a rifle. However, the proofs on the barrels show it was indeed pre 1887. I may have been meant for the pigeon ring although it doesn't have some known Reilly Pigeon gun features but it certainly is possible that the owner wanted to use it for ball as you speculate.

In June 1875 "Not for Ball" stamp was added to choked guns. Greener had come out with his choke boring system in January 1875 and in a series of competitions proved their efficacy. Unlike other innovations all of the UK gun industry jumped on it and began advertising choked guns. Reilly's first such advertisement was in May 1875. This was done away with in 1887 replaced by "Choke." However, if a gun is cylinder bore, there will be no "Not for Ball" stamp.

I'll post two contemporary Reilly Pigeon guns below for comparison:

SN 23355 -1881: Note the weight, chokes, flat top rib and chambering (reproofed).
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24227/lot/462/?category=list
A 12-bore hammer pigeon gun by E.M. Reilly & Co., no. 23355
Toplever, rebounding backlocks, percussion-fences, best foliate scroll-engraving, traces of hardening-colour, the well-figured stock with chequered ebonite butt-plate, the damascus barrels with game-rib engraved E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London & Rue Scribe, Paris
Weight 8½lb., 14⅜in. pull (14⅛in. stock), 32in. barrels, approx. ⅝ & ¾ choke, 3in. chambers, London nitro reproof



SN 24650 - 1882: Typical of post 1881 Reilly top quality pigeon guns - Whitworth Barrels, fences, 7 lbs 8 oz (Hurlingham weight) etc:
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...221+++1810+&refno=171703&image=4
E.M. REILLY & CO.
A 12-BORE SIDELEVER HAMMER PIGEON GUN, serial no. 24650,
circa 1885, 30in. nitro reproved barrels (some light pitting, minor ring bulge in left barrel) with raised tapered file cut matt rib, the tubes engraved 'E.M. REILLY & CO. OXFORD STREET. LONDON. & RUE SCRIBE. PARIS. COMPRESSED STEEL.', 2 3/4in. chambers, bored approx. 3/4 choke in both, broad treble-grip action with oblique dolls-head third bite, side clips, carved percussion fences, rebounding sidelocks, broad strikers, border and fine scroll engraving, retaining slight traces of renewed finish, 14 3/8in. highly figured stock including 1in. rubber recoil pad, weight 7lb. 7oz.

Hi Gene A Stock, Action & Forend of a 12g double barrelled under lever hammer gun by Reilly sold at Weller & Dufty 31/01/2001. Serial No, 6249 Dave

Thank you sir. That SN does not compute. But then shotgun numberings were sometimes quixotic. It may have been 16249.- i.e. serial numbered in early 1870. If so it could have been originally a pin-fire repurposed as C-F, or an original C-F. Thanks.

It has been added to the list of known Reilly's as "(1)6249" bringing the total of known guns (not necessarily extant given catalog references) to 567 (see p.57 of the Reilly line) with anther 40 or so auction-pictured extant guns but whose serial numbers were never provided. That is a very healthy sample for constructing a date matrix...and the date chart for Reilly's has not been changed for 3 years, indicating it's about as solid as it can get. Gene.