Hello everyone, I found lancaster drilling for sale, but even the owner doesnt know what caliber, maker, proof etc it is. Ánd police for registration put as caliber jus just express 400-500..I found belgium black powder proof marks on shotgun, rifle barrels. Ill try upload some pictures. On the top of the barrels is name Fritz Englight? And on the other barrel "Bercia" cant see it clearly. Shotgun barrels are 16b.
Thank you.
Martin

9372,
if you are having conversations with the owner, he will need to provide meaningful dimensions of the chamber and barrel before the nominal cartridge can be determined. The best and easiest way to obtain these is by "slugging" the barrel and making a chamber cast.
Mike

Thank you Mike. Yes, I know it, he is not willing to do it, he just want to sell it. Is there any markings showing at least what bore diameter is it? I think it could very old gun with some old BP cartridge, maybe 43mauser,any Express caliber would be definitely marked properly I guess.. I'll try to find some belgium datacodes..

It reads: Fritz Englicht Berlin, probably a Dealer.

Cheers,
Wolfgang

It was made 1910-1920; I do not see a lettre annale; likely pre-WWI
It does not carry Smokeless Powder proof but Belgian guns for export frequently did not
The 16g bore is 16.8 mm = .661" with muzzle 16.5 mm = .650" = .011" or 16g Modified

Unfortunately, neither Pete Mikalajunas' list, nor http://www.hlebooks.com/daubres/li02.htm have a Belgian maker that I can make into 'FBA?'

Thank you very much guys! Do you have any idea what 557 means?

I see it as FB AF , which would mean: Fabrique Belge d'armes à feu

Look here:

https://mallorquina.pagesperso-orange.fr/source/pageF.htm

W-heil,
Wolfgang

Police used as seriál number 95571760..for registration. Is that correct? I thought that there are 2 numbers which one of them is a serial number and other as which it passed through proof house for example as 9557th in certain year(letter c - 1924)?

Thanks as always Wolfgang.
Not listed here
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/a%20a%20artisans%20identifies%20gb.htm#F

The Belgian Proof House did not use numeral date codes; lettre annale started in 1922

Thank you! It looks Like there is letter c in front of 1760 on water table. Im not sure. I cant see it on the barrel thou.
Waiting for the owner to at least slug the bore, to take any measurements he can...

Yes, I see the 'C' but the lettre annale were usually on the barrel flats, and a stylized lower case 'c'.

"Express 400-500" suggests a .40/10mm rifle cartridge, maybe on a necked down .500 cal. case, and I see "10" (mm?) on the rifle barrel. The Drilling was obviously made for the German market so a peek into the 1904 DWM catalog could produce some candidates; let's see:

Express Kal. 400: 10,35x60,90 mm - DWM case 76 (bottleneck)
Express Kal. 450/400: 10,40x82 mm - DWM case 76 B (bottleneck)
Express (unnamed): 10,25x68,90 mm - DWM case 214 (bottleneck)
(Lancaster): 10,35x65,40 mm - DWM case 164 (straight).

Cheers,
Jani

Also: The caliber indication 16 in the rhombus means the gun was proofed before 1924....!

Waidmannsheil,
Wolfgang