I just returned from a trip to Maine and was getting caught up on the bankruptcy sale of Remington. I was sad to read this. Hopefully they will rise again and continue to manufacture firearms.

It was interesting to see that Sturm Ruger purchased the Marlin Firearms operation, along with another group purchasing the Parker name.

It will be a sad day for the Ilion community if they shut that plant down.

I read that Ilion is supposed to shut down today, October 2.

I really like my Remington auto shotguns, 1100 G3, 11-87 and SP10. I prefer my doubles but ...
I hope that Remington does rise again, they make/made good guns.

I read that all the investors in the roundhill group are hunters and gun enthusiasts so thats a big step in the right direction.

they used to make moderately priced, reliable and safe firearms...

now they make alotta cheap, unreliable and perhaps dangerous guns...

which maybe why they have gone belly up...

Here is a list of buyers:

Remington Outdoor Company Asset Sale
Remington Asset Winning Bidder

Remington Firearms- Roundhill Group, LLC (Real Estate Investors)
Dakota Firearms - Roundhill Group, LLC (Real Estate Investors)
Remington Ammo - Vista Outdoor, Inc. (Federal Ammo)
Barnes Bullets - Sierra Bullets, LLC
Marlin Firearms - Sturm, Ruger & Co, Inc.
Bushmaster Firearms- Franklin Armory Holdings, Inc.
Tapco (parts) - Sportsman's Warehouse, Inc.
DPMS Firearms - JJE Capital Holdings, LLC (Palmetto State Armory)
H&R Firearms - JJE Capital Holdings, LLC (Palmetto State Armory)
AAC Silencers - JJE Capital Holdings, LLC (Palmetto State Armory)
Parker Shotguns - JJE Capital Holdings, LLC (Palmetto State Armory)
Stormlake Barrels- JJE Capital Holdings, LLC (Palmetto State Armory)

What do you mean by “dangerous” guns, Ed?

Do you mean faulty design that may cause injury through malfunction? Do you mean such shoddy manufacturing that the guns may blow up?

Or do you mean that the guns made by Remington may be used by persons with ill-intent. Like every gun ever made.

back: better you answer your own question...

It's a shame, really. The Remington factory is the 2nd oldest continually operated manufacturing facility in the United States. They have been making Remington guns in that SAME brick building for over 200 years.
And the town of Ilion depends on it as their anchor business.

Remington's QC has come under fire in recent years, perhaps not entirely unfairly. But the trigger thing is completely unfounded. If one can claim there is a "problem" it's that stupid people are capable of improperly setting it. And because the 700 is the most popular rifle ever made in America...by a MILE...any such instances are going to be magnified.

Is Ford at fault if someone soups up their Mustang so much they run off the road?

I hope investors can bring capital in and keep going...likely with a more streamlined offering. If they just make 700's and 870's and perhaps 1 or 2 others, they should be alright.

The question is, given the idiocy of a plurality of NY voters and politicians...is it time to cut bait and move it all to Alabama. I feel for Ilion, if it goes that way.

New York is such a fantatically beautiful place. It's just sad that 72% of the voters live in 9% of the land area...and dictate their politics to everyone else.

NDG

Like it or not, the litigious climate requires idiot proof designs, to the extent of protecting from persistent and skilled idiots.

The lawsuits and hit piece that CNBC did on them caused the most damage I imagine. I'm sure declining sales was the final blow.

As to New York politics, it is happening everywhere. Here in Virginia the Northern suburbs outside of D.C. and Richmond pretty much determine elections. If you look at the biographies of democrat State legislators many are from New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, anywhere but Virginia. It won't be long and Virginia will be like New York State. Broke, with a mass exodus of tax paying citizens. I think I read that more people are now leaving Virginia than moving there.

In Maine, a long time U.S. Senator is probably going to lose to a liberal transplant from Rhode Island.

Very disturbing trend. I'll never understand why voters fall for it. They just push the same failed ideas and nonsense from where they came from.

The cancer which infected California 30 years ago had now spread to the entire west coast and into Nevada and Arizona. People moving out of California seem to always want to bring a bit of California with them. They soon over power the natives and take over. Hence the entire west coast is a lost blue wall and every crack pot idea gets tried before thinking it through. The solution is free and more taxes to pay for free.

I own Remingtons. They are not, however, current production Remingtons.

Example of how 'cost saving' boomeranged on them:

They retooled the 1100 and in doing so went to a sintered part where the bolt rides on the action bar. This did not work in the 410 gauge model. The part failed. All of them. Remington could not fix those guns because they no longer made parts that would hold up to the shear forces involved. This took a couple years to correct.

How do you louse up the 1100? That's how.

I see where Federal now owns the ammunition branch of Remington. This reduces competition, and will inevitably result in higher prices for the consumer. That's if the Remington brand survives at all and losing that would be the worst thing about losing Remington.

I bought a Remington 870 in 1979 to take with me abroad on various assignments (Always sent in HHE under heaps of other stuff)...28" barrel...Modified Choke, 2 3/4 inch chambers...generic shotgun of the times. 41 years later it is pristine and as strong as a gun need be. It did everything, home defense, birds, rabbits, deer (with the slug barrel). One doesn't need anything more.

Then about 4 years ago, #1 son was trekking in panhandle Alaska doing his doctoral dissertation carrying bear spray. I gave him a new Remington 870 Marine Magnum (nickel plated, synthetic stock, 20" cylinder bore barrel, 10 round mag, etc...he's on a Kayak a lot and salt destroys guns). It was twice the price of a standard Remington but still seemed decent quality.

But in addition I bought a Remington 28" barrel with screw-in chokes off the internet and a short magazine so he could legally hunt if need be. That barrel was disgraceful. There was lump just behind the chamber that would not allow the shell to be ejected. I finally ground it down myself and cold blued the grind... but...that lack of quality control was what killed a famous name. The bean counters get in charge, they'll run a company into the ground.

Those Remington Wingmasters from the 60s and 70s were and still are amazing. Same for many of the 1950s-70s, not to mention most if not all of those from the 19th century. But those days are gone. Then again, I don't know if any of the guns that commonly adorn the shelves of big box stores are any good. They are certainly too much of an eye sore to get close enough to tell.

What Argo says about Remingtons could just as well be said about others, such as Marlins - even before Remington got to them.

I had just about given up on my $2.00/50 box Remington rebate for the Nitro's I bought early in the summer....low and behold check came in the mail yesterday.
Talking with my buddy that works at local gun shop that is a Remington Service Center. He says they have over 60 870 receivers that have been replaced versus repaired by Remington. I believe the problem is related to the ejector spring.

[quote=John E]Here is a list of buyers:


Parker Shotguns - JJE Capital Holdings, LLC (Palmetto State Armory)

Incorrect sir - The production of the Parker shotgun by Remington Arms ceased at the onset of WW-II and aside from assembling a small number of Parker shotguns from leftover parts at the end of the war, that was the end of Parker shotguns as far as manufacturing was concerned. Remington, however, still owned the name Parker, Parker Shotguns, the Parker Gun, and anything associated with the marque (name) of Parker as it pertains to those things. So... JJE Capitol Holdings, LLC now owns the marque and anything associated with it... as I understand it.

So, nothing is 'incorrect'.

That company now owns the Parker name.

I expect shotguns from Turkey branded as "Parker' in the near future.

Is it pretty easy to date a Wingmaster? I bought one last spring in 12 ga., and with a Remington factory 34" vent rib barrel. I'd like to know the vintage.

SRH

One heck of a turkey gun there, Stan. 3" chambering, full choke?RWTF

Nah, 2 3/4", Francis. It's backbored so much that it's got way over .050" choke. I can't remember the exact amount right now. Pretty sure is was a card gun, made to compete on turkey targets.

I plan to try it on some crows. Ought to be pretty impressive with that much choke.

Stan: you used to be able to go to a Remington webpage and just plug in the serial number to find the date of manufacture. Not sure if that's still available or not.

You can also find this information and more at the Remington Society of America website.

Wow-- My 12 gauge 3"Mag M12 Heavy Duck has a super-snug factory full choke- made in 1949- 30" Full solid rib. I removed the lead from the butt cavity, to maintain the muzzle forward feel that most all unaltered M12's seem to have. For pass shooting on waterfowl, tukeys and crows, gangbusters, with steel or lead loads. I often carry a box of WRA 1 ounce steel no 7 shot in my waterfowling carry seat- if the day turns "blue-birdy" and the farms I frequent have loads of pigeons and crows, I switch from the heavy No. 2 steel loads to the light loads, and devastate overhead soaring crows and poopsters- A frined has a similar M12 3" full, but his has the rare 32" barrel- But the older Remington M31's and then the M870's are great pumps as well, just that the slide release and the safety button on the trigger guard assembly is "bass-ackwards" from the M12's I tend to favor.

Hard to argue that both Rudy and his father, Fred Etchen, were shotgunning legends, on clays, box pigeons, and game birds-- Rudy had many fine shotguns (Purdey-not too shabby) but his "go-to" shotgun was a 12 gauge Rem 870. That speaks volumes to me.

Glad to see that you are getting back "into the game" Sounds from all I read here that it was a real freak accident, and thanks to the help from some good friends, and the doctors in the Girard area, you survived. In this time of national crisis with Covid, that is, indeed great good news. Stay well, amigo-best to Jean and your sons and grandsons. (PS- and any daughters and granddaughters as well) RWTF

We started a " pump gun Friday " at the club for SCs. Anyone without a pump bought a 870, some Wing Masters and some the Express. Haven't heard one complaint. I bought a 410 Express for the 410 only games someone thought up. No problems. I read where gun production is expected to continue at Ilion.

I just re-acquired a number of pump guns that had been on "long-term loan" up at my late father-in-law's place in Nowhere, Minnesota. As I cleaned and packed them up for the long ride back to Colorado, I compared them side by side and the comparison wasn't pretty. The older they where, the better they clearly were. The most recent was a left-handed 870 Express that I purchased just a few years ago (5-6) and it is downright butt-ugly (the Birchwood(?) stock looks almost like it's plastic). But...it seems to work just fine. I've owned a number of Remington pumps, Model 10s, Model 17s, Model 31s, 870 and 870 Express guns and....as you might expect, quality seems to peak just before the Second World War. Pre-war Model 31s are simply amazing guns (and this from a Model 12 fan). Build quality and fit & finish is exceptional. The 870 is derived from the Model 31 in that it's ergonomics and controls are identical, but while the 31 was machined-steel, the 870 was stamped-steel to allow it to better compete with Winchester's venerable Model 12 (30% cheaper!). Remington won that battle in something like 1962 when Winchester threw in the towel and ceased M12 production. Millions of 870s have been made since but...the older ones are clearly much nicer. The Wingmaster versions actually look pretty good to me now (even though an M31 would eat their lunch in every way).

Maybe in build quality, but an 870 WingMaster beats it in flexibility, choke tubes, chamber length, parts availability, aftermarket support, barrel interchangeability, steel/tungsten shot capability...

A 31 is a "better" gun, as is a Model 12, but an older WingMaster is better than it needs to be, moderately priced, and widely available. As I have said before, if I could keep only one gun to do everything, I'd have to get rid of everything except my old WingMaster Magnum 3", with cut checkering and oil finished wood.

My 1100's all have the diamond inlay in the grip cap. Remington used some nice wood on those back in the day. The design was long ago eclipsed by modern automatics, but the guns do handle and point well. They all have aftermarket trigger groups or trigger parts and good crisp triggers. When they break, and they all have at some point, parts are available and cheap. Some day I just shoot an 1100 to remind me where I came from. A great many people got into the game with that model. It's as much a part of our history as any doublegun.

I did buy a pre-Cerberus Wingmaster because I could see that the corporate raiders were going to take every nickel out of the product and I wanted a real 870 while they were available. It's quite a nice gun with very straight grain and strong walnut. The finish is very good I think.

The older Remingtons had a nice machine blue on them and that finsh has held up pretty well on most of them. Of course, you would never mistake a Model 11 for an FN made gun. I do have a 31, but I'm less impressed than some folks with the design. The trigger with the way it lifts is just weird. The 870 was a piece of genius and sales numbers have rather proven that.

I do hope the STS shell remians unchanged, although there is small chance.

Good luck to the new investors. They will need it.

Thanks for the suggestions on looking up the Wingmaster serial number. When I feel up to it I'll retrieve the # and try to look it up. I need to measure that choke again, too. The more I think about it the more I believe it was even tighter than I said.

SRH

Lloyd- as a brother pumpgunner- I saw a 16 M31 with an extra barrel last week at a newly opened gun shoppe-near the farm area where I deer hunt in Nov. Were all the M31's a std. weight gun, or, like WRA with the featherweight version of the M12, dud they ever experiment with an alloyed receiver? Just wondering. RWTF

Cerberus- the three headed doggie that guards the gates of Hades- how does that figure into Remington gun production??? RWTF

I'd put my older Belgie mfg. A-5 12 against any gas operated Remmie self-loading shotgun. Just like with the: M-1 Garand, BAR, M-14 US military rifles with a gas piston, fouling often occurs after repetitive firing, whether from a fox-hole or a duck blind.RWTF

RWTF, My Remington 31L in 12g. weighs 6lbs. 2 oz with a 30" barrel.

The recoil guns have their own set of problems.

Modern propellants have largely eliminated the 'fouling' problem with auto shotguns. An 1100 run with Titewad or Clays or virtually any current factory shell except the South American garbage will go for an entire weekend of target shooting without any maintenance. It was not always so.

A Garand that stops functioning because of powder residue would be a rare case. Those gas pistons erode, but it takes a very long time and the operating rods can be rebuilt. Competitors shoot their match rifles for years and never take the gas cylinder off or the action off the stock. They purposely avoid that yet the rifles keep running reliably.

For your info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus_Capital_Management

Back in the 80s when I duck hunted obsessively, I experimented with my Grandfather's Model 11 while my hunting partner continued to bang away with his 1100. There was no doubt which was more reliable in the dead of winter on sandbars. The 1100 every time. And all the ammo was factory.

RWTF: They sure did. Starting in early 1941 (just before the war), Remington made some 12-bore M31 aluminum receivers. WWII evidently stopped all non-military production until about 1946-7 when Remington resumed M31 12-gauge aluminum receiver production. The model was called the 31L for "lightweight". By 1948 (as I remember it) they began sub-gauge production, starting with 20s and then later that year, 16s. I now own two, a 20 and a 16. Both weigh about 5 1/2 pounds empty. They weren't designed for competition use or any high-volume shooting, but... of-course many were used exactly that way, leading to cracked receivers and dependability issues (hardened steel parts inside an aluminum receiver will inevitably cause wear issues). Remington clearly couldn't afford a reputation problem so they ended M31L production around 1952, which is a shame because they work just fine for hunting use.



My 20 with a Colorado Bolete mushroom. The anodized-black receiver is a dead giveaway that it's a lightweight gun.

They feel strange when you first pick one up (because you're expecting 8 plus pounds, not 5 1/2) but the balance is still quite good and, of course, they carry wonderfully. My exclusively pump-gun shooting (then 70-year old) father-in-law was having problems carrying his almost 9-lb (loaded) 870 Express around all day back in 2010. I found the 16 bore M31L for him then and he proceeded to kill mounds of ruffed grouse with it for the last 10-years or so. He really loved it.

Wow- that's getting down into Ithaca Featherlight territory. Shoot a box of 2&3/4" Express loads through that M31 and let me know how the recoil effect was- like my 7&1/2 lb. 12 gauge M12's, the 3" Mag is 8&1/2 lbs. with the lead weight removed from the butt cavity. RWTF

Never used Wikipedia-- but not at all surprised to read that the founder is a "Gentleman(??)of the Hebrew persuasion, like Georgie Soros and Bloomberg. Fact of life I guess. RWTF

best pump gon eva made were duh remington model 17's...

Run With The Fox you show your true colors in the above post and have displayed your bigotry before. Jimmy Wales is the owner of Wikipedia. Look him up. Wikipedia can be edited by anyone at any time. This means that any information it contains at any particular time could be vandalism, a work in progress, or just plain wrong. However, because Wikipedia is a volunteer-run project, it cannot monitor every contribution all the time. ...

Wikipedia is one of the great resources of the modern age. It is under continuous evaluation and monitoring and change - and is never final authority (but then is anything?). It is a crowd-based resource...but WHAT A RESOURCE. You could have a wall of encyclopedias and not approach the amount of information in that one site. I contribute a few dollars to it every year. Gene

I always enjoy seeing images of classic Remington shotguns. They had some nice wood on them for production guns that's for sure.

Remington sourced bespoke Parker 28ga guns from CSMC in the last decade. I believe Remington was still the legal manufacturer.

Was that when they built one or two pieces to show off and tease us about the return of the Parker Gun? I sort of remember seeing pics online and I think the gun was attributed to Remington at the time.

I don't know about the shotguns, but Remington had a period in the late 90s or early 2000s where they make "custom" rolling blocks fitted out with fancy felt-lined, leather-trimmed case and fancy wood, etc. They were junk that was just short of dangerous to the shooter. They looked good in the 10-foot test, but in your hands, it was hideously obvious how bad they were. How/who made them I do not know. I assumed Remington proper, but they may have been outsourced.

Even as far back as 1968, those Remington gas guns (Sportsman 58 and Model 1100) proved pretty reliable for Chief Buntrock and Tommy Heffron!!