What constitutes an English “Best”? I’ve noticed this adjective has been thrown around lately and was curious what the consensus is. Is it wood, engraving, fit and finish or a combination of the three. What you say, ideas, opinions etc.

For me it’s fit and finish, solid wood with tight straight grain, not so much figure as I’ve seen some real turds with highly figured wood. Good balance. Insides smooth and finished and quality hand fit parts. That would be some of my impressions of a “Best”.

I have a couple candidates. One is H&H Royal Ejector which I will leave without comment. The other one is more tricky, being a WW Greener from the 1880s. This one is Box Lock without Ejector, not a likely candidate for English Best. But a letter from the present Mr. Greener confirmed that it was in the works for three years and represents the Best of that time. So English Best could be more that one thing I would say.

With kind regards,
Jani

I think you are correct in your assumption of a "Best"grade gun.
Many maker's made what they described as a "Best" grade of their guns.
But many only think of an English gun "Best" as being from the big three, Purdey, Boss and Holland.
I have a Henry Atkin Spring Opener that is as much as a "Best" quality as the big three ever made.

I never felt a name implies “Best” and reputation helps with that name idea. But as we had seen some of the “Best” named products were started by the hand of another’s name!
“Buy the gun, not the name” right?

There are so many interpretations of the term ‘Best’. I choose to interpret a best-quality gun as the best that a maker offered for sale, made with the best available components. Thus there is a great similarity in a best gun offered by a lesser-known maker and that offered by a top-tier maker, though the latter could command a much higher price.

Sadly we know little about the individual craftsmen and outworkers who built and fitted the components, and whose talents were probably recognized and respected within their community. We only know the names of the firms that sold the guns, and occasionally these are one and the same.

I agree with the expression ‘buy the gun, not the name’, though with human nature, this is easier said than done!

I also have an Atkin Spring Opener (circa 1911 with 28" barrels) and agree that this is right up there with 'the best'.

I understand Atkin have only made a total of 400-500 'spring openers' in total. As I'm sure you know, it was the favourite of the late Gough Thomas (Garwood).

You don’t get to re-define the term just because it suits you..

The marketplace decided what was best.

Features and developments that evolved, stemming from the competition amongst the major makers, dIstilled the definition of best.

And you can debate whether that feature set is appropriate, but by the logic that’s being applied here, I could take an old Colton, and say that it was a best.

Interesting! So let’s start from the top, no I am not redefining what’s “Best” to suit my needs, I have no need for a best or currently have anything that can be noted as one. Second what I am implying in my query is what I have read, some from Digs and some from others. I then noticed how the word “Best” was being used and asked for comments regarding said topic. So now let’s look at what you said, so innovation and competition with what the market will pay for such an item is what makes a “Best”, so yes if you paid through the nose for a beat up Colton that may have a unique feature then by your logic it makes it a “BEST”! Thanks for your input!

I think I'll let the search engine fill in all the blanks for this one.

It's been covered a few times.

Some guns marketed by big name Best gun makers were certainly second or third rank products.
Quite a few gunmakers could provide a gun at the level of quality your pocketbook could afford.
I suspect that not all companies self described Best were equal.

You may want to search for "English Bests". The topic has been discussed many times with good insight and no single answer.

Bests

Ken

It should be noted and understood that there were some 15 trades that supplied goods to Brit aristocratic and monistic socities. Each of these trades had a "best work" product along with product of lesser quality. "Best work" products were expensive compared to similar items of lesser quality. Social circles were rather tight knit and much tiered in standing. Circles frequently had an informal "list" of tradesmen with which they did business. Social climbing was dangerous business, socially. Guns were like the other trades. Big time (high society) shoots needed "best work" guns, along with clothes, transport, accessories, etc. Lessor shoots - lessor guns.

The big three is actually the big four: Boss, H&H, Purdey's, and Woodward. The market decided this, not me.

Any master could get out a best work gun. The trick was getting the commission. Don't be surprised to find a retailer name on a best work gun.

DDA

Thanks for that, Don. Don't go away.

Well said.

Had to look up 'monistic'. Agree about the "big four"...Geo

Aside from apparel, what are these other trades you speak of? I need other things to get into collecting, obviously. Ha.

There is a dandy little book by Thomas Girtin titled "Nothing but the Best." I highly recommend it to get a better understanding of Victorian/Edwardian consumer goods and the "made to order" (bespoke) concept.

As best I recall, the fourteen trades are as follows; suits, shirts, shoes, gloves, haberdashery, hats, waterproofs, guns and fishing tackle, carriages, wine/spirits and chocolate, stationary, walking sticks, art work, and jewelry.

The "London pattern best" game gun is pretty well defined as a sidelock ejector stocked to the fences, high quality wood of good color and grain, over 75% coverage of high quality engraving, weighing about 6 1/2 pounds, balancing about 4 1/2 inches in front of the front trigger, with unmounted swing effort of near 1.45 and mounted swing effort of 6.4. The jury is still out on being a self-opener. There are numerous "best work" guns that do not conform to the "London pattern." Some due to being made prior to the London best fashion and others because the "bespeaker" knew he wanted something different and/or had a different purpose than driven game.

Do not make the mistake of believing that having a "London pattern best" will automatically make you a champ shooter. Unless, by sheer coincidence, it has you stocking measurements and handling numbers it won't. A gentleman's gunmaker was also supposed to make sure the gun worked, worked for the gent, and that he was well schooled in shooting and etiquette there of. Successful shooting clients made for successful gunmakers.

DDA

Totally agree Don.
One has only to observe the shooting form of the line on a traditional partridge shoot to see form and function in action.

The traditional shooting form is quite unique.

Thanks - that sounds like an excellent read and I will be sure to pick up a copy.

Firmly agree that you can't just pick up someone else's best and become a shooting impresario. For instance, the better finished, likely made to order guns I have owned have all had considerable cast-off built in, likely for their portly well-fed owners. I don't shoot guns with excessive cast well, performing better with the more generic, often non-bespoke "hardware" store versions.

One mans best most likely will be another mans worst when it comes to shooting.

My best gun could have been stocked to fit me. I would not change a thing on it. Know your dimensions and shop accordingly. The search is half the fun and it does not cost a penny.

The difference between centering clay birds at 20 yards and centering live game at 50 is considerable.

Fractions both of inches and seconds.

On the other hand, cast-off suites me well. A lot of shooters miss the custom fit aspect of "best work" guns. They did not come with generic fit nor were they bought "off the peg." They tied up too much capital to stock in hope of a customer.

DDA

It seems there were a lot of brand value 3 makers that would have seldom obtained a commission for a best (OQ 1) gun although capable of completing one. DDA, you are over your limit for PM's but I'm bidding on a BV3, OQ2(?), present Q 3(?) at auction and don't want to disclose much more than that. Would be more than happy to share images if you were to make room and message me.

RARiddell,
Would you happen to have any pics of that Greener you mention ?
Man,those high end Boxlocks were something to be hold. I am very fond of Greener guns.
cheers
franc

JB, you are absolutely right that any brand, actual maker or retailer, could get out a OQ1 gun. True makers used in-workers with requisite skill and contracted with with other shops and/or out-workers to fill in any gaps.

I'll clean out some stuff and make room for you. Try again tomorrow. Love to hear from you.

DDA