Henry 20 ga. single, blued receiver. Turkey gun with Federal TSS #7's.
https://www.henryusa.com/shotgun/single-shot-shotgun/
JR

Nice, but I think they picked the wrong opening system with the top-lever. I much prefer the push button style. Just me probably...Geo

In addition I can't tell whether the forend is a pull-off or a screw on. Pull-0ffs are hard to use with a sling because you can't just screw the swivel into the forend wood; it pulls off too easily.

They want a pretty penny for those things.

There was a time when single barrel shotguns were to be found on every farm around where I grew up. Behind a back door, out in a shed or barn, on a tractor or combine. Handy for ready use. But none I ever saw as a kid had wood as nice as the lower one in that picture. Wow.

TSS internet stunt man...why not go full stunt and shoot a foe tin.

I got more respect for a turkey than that.

Ever stop and wonder why Federal starting pushing #7 size shot ?

Because they can't load a shell with big shot to compete with the pattern of a Winchester Longbeard #4 with it's shot lock technology (with liguid buffer) that's why.

I'm sure they'll be someone along shortly to tell me how dense TSS is...I say its dense but not as dense as their headz.

Those old dog leg shotguns were a tool. My uncle had one that never knew what the inside of a house looked like or what a bore swab felt like. It lived out in the tool room next to the door, AND it was loaded all the time. It stayed there after he died and I saw no reason to change its lifestyle. One day I was clearing wasp nests off the eaves in preparation for painting the house. The top eaves were a good 30' off the ground at least and while I could reach them with a 20 extension ladder and a long extension on the paint roller (still not sure why I even wanted to do that) I was not going to fight yellow jackets under those conditions. I got the bright idea of shooting them down... My grandmother would have frowned on that ... I loaded some rock salt but a quick test on some old boards showed it would be a little much. I tried table salt. Bingo. Then I started clearing wasp nests. It worked great. Killed all the wasps and cleared the nest all at once.

After the salt shot I figured I should clean the shotgun to keep the rust from rusting. I cleaned it all up and kinda got sidetrack from my painting (not hard too do). I found the bore to be very rugged so I chucked up a dowel rod with a wad of 0 steel wool wrapped around it and spun it for about ten min in the bore. Got a lot of gunk and rust out but it was far form a mirror finish. I started keeping oil on it after that and now it sits in a safe as the one firearm I have that belonged to that Uncle.

I learned to shoot a shotgun with an Eastern Arms 410 that wasn't in much better condition than the one described above. I still have it too.

Those old guns carry a lot of memories with them.

Someday, someone will maybe look back on your new Henry the same way.

Alan

I doubt it.

Maybe an iPhone or Xbox.

Posted with my iPhone X.


____________________________
Don’t you know you can’t go home again? Ella Winter

The reason Federal makes #7 TSS is because 9 isn't legal in some states nor is the .410. TSS is such a bust that Stevens has designed a .410 around TSS #9.
https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/shotgun/stevens-series/301-turkey

Now the company named after the greatest inventor of modern firearms has a line of TSS shot for turkeys:
https://www.mackspw.com/Browning-12-Ga-TSS-3-1-3-4-oz
When someone says that everyone who uses TSS has a dense head and that same person rants against its use one has to wonder who has the dense head. Stevens, Federal, Browning et al.?? Nah...
BTW, Federal has used Tungsten #7 15 g/cc for close to 15 years in the Heavyweight series, but only last year introduced the TSS load which is tungsten shot with a specific gravity of 18 g/cc. Gil

How are you going to get your turkey scope on that thing?

Do you have a problem with American workers making a decent wage?

https://www.henryusa.com/news/henry-repeating-arms-to-manufacture-rifles-in-wisconsin/

Just wonderin’.


__________________________
Nice gun. Have fun with it.

I suspect he wants one for free, like this board....

Nope. Why would I? I was just surprised at the cost. I've seen a lot of Henry rimfire rifles, but not one of these.

Lots of new ones on GunBroker in the $350 range. Yhey look good and have all the newest safety features...Geo

I still prefer the NEF and H&R versions though.

Didn't take long for a TSS'r to show...cc this cc that.

Now we got one quoting Izack Newton...talking about specific gravity.

Mmmm...Mmmm...mmm

jOe I think you are going to have to give up the fight on the TSS issue. No matter to me, I use my old guns and find low pressure RST No. 5's to kill them dead enough for me. Flopping in the pine straw is all I ask for...Geo

George there is no fight...how do you fight someone that doesn't have clue as to what theyre talking about.

Geo, It's got to gall him that the namesake company of the inventor and manufacturer of his beloved Superposed now promotes a line of TSS shot for turkeys. But then, what does Browning know about shotguns and ammo? LOL. Gil
https://www.mackspw.com/Browning-12-Ga-TSS-3-1-3-4-oz

Come on jOe, we had this discussion about this same time last year. I then posted 13 dead turkeys for you in the picture thread - all mature gobblers, all called up and all killed with one shot of TSS.

Every one of those gobblers would have told you that TSS is very effective, but they can't, cause they're all dead.

Mr. Roberts, good luck with your new Henry.

If I posted some I killed with a BB gun would it only prove how dumb I was...

What would hurt more hit with an ice pick.or a ball peen hammer ?

TSS just like some heAds is harder than lead...it takes 3 fairy dust sized number 9 size TSS pellets to weigh what one lead #4 pellet weighs.

When a 3 times heavier #4 lead pellet hits a bone and flattens out and doesn't exit it impacts all the energy it carries on what it hits...when a little solid TSS #9 or #7 pelet's zips right through what it's hit it takes its energy with it.

There is a mathematical equation for figuring energy based on weight and velocity...only way a TTS #7 or #9 like you shoot can win is if you up your velosity...when in reality ou are shooting your TSS at a lower velosity than my 3 times heavier lead #4.

Put that cc in your gravity pipe and smoke on it...

What’s wrong with the opening lever on the blued Henry in the picture?

Prefer the “Companion” single shot, no hammer, non automatic safety, 3” chamber 12 gauge. But, prefer a double gun, more.




Best,
Ted

What you say about the comparative weights is true, but it is a moot point. How far does a #9 TSS pellet penetrate? The answer is - far enough. As long as they have enough energy to penetrate into his head or neck, they will kill him.

I'm sure you know this, but I'll share it for those who don't turkey hunt. We kill turkeys differently than most anything else. We body shoot upland birds, we body shoot waterfowl, we body shoot deer, but the last thing in the world you wanna do with a turkey is to body shoot him with a shotgun. The long neck and head are the areas of the turkey that are vulnerable, and since we shoot them while stationary it makes sense to tailor your gun and load to fill the head and neck with holes. I have found that it doesn't seem to make much difference how big the holes might be. The smaller shot kills them just fine if you punch holes in the head/neck.

I just checked my hunting log that I have kept all my life. I have killed 88 spring gobblers with TSS handloads. I have killed them with size 7, 8, 8.5, 9, 9.5, and even killed a couple with 10. I have killed a lot more with lead than I have with tungsten, so I think I have a large enough sample size to form an opinion. I started out using TSS #8 shot, which is a 6.4 if you wanna compare it to the weight of lead. That size certainly has plenty of penetration to kill a turkey, but it has so much that it will kill a turkey way further than I wanna shoot one. Other folks were having success with #9, so I decided to try them. What I found was that they have plenty of penetration to kill the turkey, so I'm able to use a more open choke and a smaller gauge gun. That gives me a wider pattern and more room for aiming error, which I think is a good thing.

Turkey ammo has come a long way since I started hunting back in the 60s. The Longbeard loads that Joe mentioned are much superior to the lead I used back in the day.

Good hunting to all.

True we do try and shoot turkeys in the head...but some fail to remenber we are shooting a shotgun with an ever growing pattern. If you only hit the head then the rest of your 20 to 30 inch pattern is going somewhere.
I'd rather not deal with hundreds of small pellets in and through my meat...the best range to shoot a turkey is between 25 to 35 yards. A #4 lead is devastating at those ranges and if a few get in the meat they're not hard to find...and if you miss judge the yardage the #4 will not let you down

Actually, TSS has a lot fewer flyers than a comparative lead load. It's 16" from the top of a gobbler's head to the base of his neck if he is standing up straight. That gives you plenty of room to put the pattern on his vitals without getting it into the breast. Any shell will have a few flyers outside of the kill pattern, but any of the denser shot will have fewer of those than lead. I have shot a lot of patterns with both, so I'm not guessing at this.

Nothing "wrong" with the top-lever on the Henry. I just think the thumb push opener on the H&R and the NEF is more ergonomic for me. It is right under where my thumb is on the gun after a shot and I can open the gun without changing its position. I wish they'd put one on a double...Geo

No, Geo. Look at the picture on the site that John posted. The blued gun has the opening lever riding up what looks like 3/8ths of an inch higher than the other gun in the picture.
It looks like the opening lever is coming out of the frame.

Best,
Ted

Ted...he's not b buying a BSS.

That Firing pin block on the H&R was a good idea, don't know if Henry is using the same design or not. While it Was a Good Idea it was in fact rather poorly designed. Back in the 1980s & 90s when I had an FFL & did some gunsmithing I always kept several of these in stock. The block itself was comparatively heavy but connected to the trigger on only one side by a fairly thin leg. I replaced a good number of these during that time. I don't know if they have improved it by now or not. I have a 30" barreled H&R 12 gauge with the thumb push opener which I inherited. I have not shot it but will say if & when I do it will not be with a 3" Mag, even though it is so chambered. It is simply too lightweight for such power.

I can’t be the only one who noticed this:



Look at the opening lever on the blued, or black gun- it is projected out of the frame. Not by a small amount, either.

Best,
Ted

Up close it looks like this

The engraving kinda leaves me cold...

Why is the lever on the other gun in the picture so much lower?

Best,
Ted

Pretty sure it was a pre-production gun used for photos. I did notice it myself, Ted. Looks fine in Brentd's photo of his gun.
JR

Ted, it is still pretty high in this picture, but in the other, look at the top tang - it is white. I think the first picture was clipped and then mounted in front of the white background. When they did it, the clipping operation took a little too much.

Just speculation. It is still too high in this picture, in my opinion. Brush and grass will get caught under it.

john roberts - not my gun. I don't own a Henry. I just went surfing for another picture because I thought the first one was a little suspect and probably a digital error.

Seriously John R'a thats a kOol single shot...I'm thinking about getting me two of them.

I figure I could get me a couple rad'e ator clamps and clamp them together and have me a double trouble turkey shoot'n machine.

During the off season when I wasn't stuntman turkey hunt'n I could use them to stake out my pole beans...

What say you.

I say yOu can glue two of your best box calls together, tie a string to the lids so you can work ‘em at the same time and make an old savvy gobbler think he’s got two hens instead of just one. Should be a neat stunt. But you might ought to start practicing soon. And you can shoot ‘em with your cobbled up two-row. Should make for a great stunt-hunt.
JR

I only have two box calls and they are both "best"....the one I made in 1995 has sat in on about 75 kills...the other one I made in 2007 has sat in on over 100 kills...

I ran into this dumb azz lawyer (from Georgia of all places) after seeing all the notches on the chalk box tell me he didn't believe I'd killed all them turkeys with those two boxes.

My reply was....Let me ask you something don't you think that if I was going to lie the 1995 box would have alot more notches than the 2007 box. I don't use a box on every turkey I call to or kill..if they are part of the kill they get a notch. It's a family tradition my uncle started back in the 1950s.

Reading the rest of your reply it's easy to see how you drank the TSS kOol aid.

I don't hunt for stunt...

I shoot a 12ga. a man's gun loaded with a manly sized shot...I don't hide in blinds behind a dA'coy spread and I have no need to practice calling.

And I drink Whiskey not kOol Aid...

Ted, I saw the gap in the top-lever, but I think it's just the angle of the photoshot of the two versions of the gun. What I object to is the top-lever itself as opposed to a thumb latch..Geo

A friend of mine with the OWD wrote this article for your consideration.

http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/hunting-old/turkey_loads.htm

Hope you get lots of turkeys with it John. I’m beginning to think they are the 21st century version of locusts.

Shoot it and them in good health.

Best,
Ted

Thanks Ted. I don't care to kill a turkey as much as I enjoy calling one to within 25-30 steps. The kill proves the hunt, but I much prefer watching my son Ross doing it. He is absolutely ruined when it comes to turkey hunting. We have the very best father/son times in the Spring woods.

Our local population, right in the heart of where it all began, has fallen off badly. One a year for us, personal limit.
JR

Sorry to hear of the decline in numbers for y'all, John. We've got just the opposite scenario here, it seems. Our population is high. I saw three separate droves today and yesterday. Not all on our land, but some of them were. Hope I can find the time to hunt some this year with a couple of my old doubleguns.

Good luck with the new gun. Give my best to Ross and Judy, please.

SRH

Turkeys and deer are a pestilence in these parts.

Best,
Ted

It's the farming, or rather the lack of it here, Stan. Your peanut crops are like candy to turkeys. Close cousin to the chufa that they so dearly love. Surprised the hogs aren't hurting the turkeys.
JR
Edit: should have mentioned nest predation is actually the worst problem. Skunks, raccoons and possums are wiping out nests.

"Heart of where it all began"...

You thinking Mississippi is the Garden of Eden of turkey hunting...bOy o bOy O boy.

If you call a turkey at 25 or 30 steps it don't take some super hard TSS shot to kill it..

Truth is when TSS came out people were regularly bragging about 80 to 90 yard kills with TSS #9 shot....

That is why the TSS kOolaid is dranken...

To kill a turkey farther not closer.

Get over the sanctimonious turkey hunting crap couzin John.

I held one of those exact guns on Monday at the Ace hardware store outside of Winchester. Build quality was really nice. Super piece of walnut on it. One thing to watch for was the trigger was problematic. It would not pull back. Gun was taken apart by the shop and put back together again and seemed to work fine then. They said the transfer bar was sticking. Said they had never seen that before and would probably send the gun back.

PS. The new hot gun because of TSS is the Steven 310 turkey version in .410. They can't keep them in stock. Camo and with a Weaver type rail installed and a choke tube designed for TSS. No where in stock anywhere. Folks are getting 40 yard groups that are flat out amazing in a package that weighs about 5 lbs.

Double PS. Avid turkey hunter, just telling you what's out there. My Benelli SBE is currently on GB being sold. 4 years ago I switched to 20 gauge and haven't looked back. Shoot size 7 Heavyweight and have a 20 year supply most likely. I don't shoot TSS in size 9. I would however try it in size 7 if I had a need.

FWIW, they have had some issues with Longbeard ammo and misfires. Apparently in really hot environments the resin that encapsulates the shot charge has melted and leeched back into the powder charge and caused squib rounds. Bad things can happen when you don't realize that and go to pump another round in to shoot a fleeing bird.

You two ought to get together in the Garden of turkey hunting Eden for a Tss coming out party.

Dang Joe, all I wanted was a little lightweight gun to tote and be sure it was fully capable for my style of turkey huntin'. I just don't shoot if he's not fixing to be in my lap...
JR

Dang Joe I said I don't even use TSS. Go ahead and fire up the International with the 8 track tape deck this spring and have some fun chasing those turkeys.

Think that gun will serve you will. Not everyone needs a 12 gauge to kill a turkey.

What's a TSS?

Tungsten shot. I think it is being promoted as another non-toxic shot, although it really isn’t.

Best,
Ted

Not really, Ted. It's being promoted in this application as much deadlier with small/high pellet count shot, than lead shot on turkeys.
https://www.federalpremium.com/products/shotshell/premium-turkey/heavyweight-tss/ptssx259f-7
JR

Solid Tungsten shot....harder than some turkey hunters headz.

When they first started promoting it for duck hunting they recommended shooting it out of guns with throw away barrels.

All I hear is density...density...density.

It's not as dense as the fellows head that fAlls for the hype...notice that Federal calls it Heaviweight but fails to show any actual weights.

If I ran a company like Federal ammo and I could not make a shell to compete with Winchesters new shot lock technology shooting devastating patterns with #4 size lead shot then I'd be promoting small shot too.

jOe don't need no stinkin' density...
JR

Lead has worked fine for a 100 plus years...

Yup. And I've got bags of big lead.

These guys like fAiry dust sized shot...like you shoot at little fAiries.

Lead worked fine for 100 years and so did black powder. 100 years ago people road trains or horses when they went to the hunt or walked out the back door to the woods. Now they ride trucks or cars to the hunt. 100 years ago turkeys weren't shot with plastic stocked Italian inertia action shotguns. They used pumps, single shots and doubles. Now some do. Lead still works good. So does TSS.

I'm really surprised that Frank doesn't permit only flintlock fowlers for turkey hunting. I am also surprised he sinks so low as to use a wooden box call. ANYONE can do that. Even me. Hardly sporting when I do it....

Along comes BrentD aka "Freddy the free loader" singing back up to a song he doesn't know the words to...

I guess that the double rifle/shotgun combo's have fallen out of favor.
I know that Savage sold a .222/20 ga. combo called a "Turkey Gun".

Ken, not just fallen out of favor but illegal in most states. I think Virginia is among the few that still permits use of a rifle to shoot turkeys. However, even among those that don't, some permit solid ball muzzle loaders. I don't know how far one would get carrying the rifle/shotgun combo in a turkey woods during spring gobbler season explaining to a game warden that only the shotgun portion was in use. Gil

A little OT...but I'm not a Turkey hunter and never have been. But Thanksgiving Day 1968, twin brother and I freshly back from Vietnam, all the aunts and uncles came up to Tuscaloosa. We were directed to take the young cousins out of the house on Thanksgiving morning while the cooking was going on. We scrounged every shotgun we could find...several pumps. That's an old single shot savage I'm carrying. Twin brother carried an old blond stock M-1 Carbine for some reason. Went out to the wild, put the cousins on line - the two of us walking behind like drill sergeants - and walked 400 yards up a stream bottom opening.

A 30lb gobbler got up and flew down the line at 30 yards. about 7 shots were fired, all 8 shot and they just rattled off his feathers. At the last minute as the Turkey disappeared across the stream, brother snap shot the carbine at about 125 yards - Special Forces had been teaching the technique - and dropped the Turkey. Actually, it wasn't that difficult a shot - but he made it out to be. Legal? I have no idea...but to this day the cousins think that was a great event.

Argo, that's a cool story and photo!

I know I've probably posted this picture before, but THIS is what a combination gun is good for:



...Geo

I bet you know a good lawyer....

We have only a Spring turkey season in GA, but wild hogs are open all year...Geo

By the way, I was by the local outdoor store this morning to pick up a 5 round box of twenty gauge TSS 7's ($34.50), and they had the Henry single shot guns from the OP in stock so I checked them out. The brass frame is probably good for something but it ain't hunting, I don't think. The blued version like JR bought looks pretty good to me. It has all the safety features I'd want on a hammer gun, and a screw on forend so you could use a sling. It was $450 in the store and I pointed out you could pick them up on GunBroker for $350 brand new.

Yea...but can you tote a combination gun turkey hunting ?

Geo, the rules in Georgia on private land would permit use of air dropped napalm on wild hogs. Anything goes; anytime; night or day. On National Forest Lands outside of WMA's:

"Hogs may be taken with archery equipment during archery deer season, with deer weapons during firearms deer season, with turkey weapons during turkey season and with small game weapons during small game season. No night hunting. No hunting over bait. Hunting license requirements must be met. Hunter orange is required during firearms and primitive weapons deer seasons"

The nearby military reservation, Fort Stewart, expressly forbids hog hunting during turkey season. Gil

Problem is counselor that is not a legal turkey weapon...

Here's the Georgia law on weapons used for turkey hunting. As I stated on the preceding page, I wouldn't want to have to explain the hybrid nature of a Cape Gun to a game warden in light of:
"It shall be unlawful to hunt turkey with any weapons except shotguns using No. 2 shot or smaller, muzzleloading firearms, longbows, crossbows, recurve bows, or compound bows. Any person taking turkey in violation of this paragraph shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as for a misdemeanor, except that a fine imposed for such violation shall not be less than $250.00;"

There you go counselor...

Guilty pay the fine.

I don't know how a game warden would react to a Cape Gun. I know game wardens who will charge hunting from a road (illegal in Ga.) if one is walking down a road with a loaded shotgun. Not so if it is unloaded. There could be an argument that unless one is in possession of the rifle ammo while turkey hunting, it is not hunting to have the gun if one is only in possession of shotgun ammo. I don't have a Cape gun so I am not faced with the dilemma. I've run into a Georgia State Patrolman (who by the way made turkey calls for sale on the side) who hunted turkeys with the Savage Turkey gun, the O/U with shotgun barrel on top, rifle on the bottom. He made a point of saying he didn't have the rifle ammo while hunting turkeys. Knowing Geo, he isn't going to hunt or shoot turkeys with a rifle.

I had an O/U, 12 gauge over .222 Rem, made in Finland for Ithaca called the "Ithaca Turkey Gun". It was a very nice gun. For turkeys you had to load the .222 Rem down to 22 Hornet velocities or the turkey would be torn up.
Jim

The classic turkey rifle was the Win. M70 22 Hornet.

Not so fast.

I'll figure this one out over the next few weeks. With waterfowl lead shot in possession is a no, no.

However, the turkey firearm rule specifically makes "taking" a bird illegal. I suspect that if I keep my .43 Mauser rifle bullet in my pocket I'm ok. So long as I don't shoot a bird with the rifle, I think I may be OK even with the bullet in the gun.

I'd rather have a ruling from the DNR in my pocket than argue with a GW though. I've actually never been checked while turkey hunting with my Sauer combination gun...Geo

I hate to argue Gil but I think an Alex Henry double is as classic as it gets for turkey rifles

Sorry Steve, but I completely agree with the GA law making shooting a turkey with a rifle against the law. What you guys out West can do safely is not the same in a crowded Eastern State like GA.

If I shot a hog with my combination gun it would be in the woods where I would know my target and what's behind it. I'd never shoot it across a field.

Even if the biggest Gobbler around were hung up 150 yards out there. I wouldn't, really! Now way! Most likely anyhow...Geo

I was just teasing Gil Geo. You guys know your laws and what is safe.

Really glad I had the rifle to make the long shot on that gobbler Geo....He had to be a full fifteen yards out.

Hope you guys have a great Spring season on them.

Steve, nice looking double rifle. What caliber? Gil

"Classic" would be a Winchester 1892 in .25-20 or .32-20 (big bore turkey).

Im pretty sure Pennsylvania still allows rifles for turkey hunting.

It just goes to figure that If rifles are against the law to hunt turkeys with then any gun capable of shooting a rifle cartridge will be illegal to hunt with.

I'm betting that keeping your bullet in your pocket story wouldn't hold water....no more than claiming you left your rifle bullets at home would.

Ask the deer spot lighter that didn't possess a gun when they caught him how it worked out for him.

I figured you jOe'ja lawyers were smarter than this...

Just saying

I don’t reckon that’ll go over too good with judge Buford T. Justice.

jOe, good to see you and Ted back at each other’s throats. The universe is back in balance.


___________________________
90 days, Geo! When you hot, you hot!
https://youtu.be/0rdF7o08KXw

Rifles are legal for turkeys in GA, as long as they are muzzleloaders.

I've used a .36 cal. longrifle for turkey, with patched roundball, and missed............ legally missed.

SRH

Not to worry, suspect and think will become KNOW by turkey season. I think it's a loophole...Geo

If spotlighting was illegal he was in the wrong. If they convicted him of night hunting he was robbed. Clearly needed a better lawyer...Geo

jOe, you been watching too much North Woods Law.

When calling in turkeys you also call in coyotes, bobcats and probably lions too. In a combination gun that's what the .222 rifle is for. In CA you can kill coyotes anytime, bobcats you have to have a tag and there is a season. Lions are protected.
Jim
PS - Gil you are right about the Win M70 in 22 Hornet as being the best choice for a turkey rifle. See the authority: Davis, Henry E. - The American Wild Turkey.

Just be sure it’s not a noose.


_______________________
Heavy sigh. Wings lost (again) to Ted’s Wild.

what is all this palaver about, can shoot turkey with this but not with that ?
What does it do for the turkey ?
What does it do for the hunter ?
What does it do for the state ?
What difference does it make in the real world if the turkey is shot with a 32 cal muzzle loader or a 32-20 Winchester ?

I do not live in U.S.A.

O.M

Never have seen a hockey game. If you are going to fight, just fight, screw the sticks and skates, and pucks.

Best,
Ted


__________________________________
I can’t even skate. I was a Golden Glove. Dad said we could afford that.
That, and Track.

Shining fields at night is ilegal in Tennessee...reason being we had too many smart lawyers that thought they could just ditch their guns and get away.

O.M. most states are shotgun only.

After reading Henry Davis personal hunting diary I'm not sure if he was an authority on turkey hunting or a lawyer that that was an authority on writing....I lean towards the later.

Henry Davis wrote another book "Hunting with a .22" thats a really good read and has pictures of his custom rifles

No doubt the Henry Davis turkey book published in 1949 borrowed heavily in the way of turkey knowledge from this earlier 1914 book.

The Wild Turkey and Its Hunting” by E. A. McIlhenny.

This was the first book ever written on the sport and the tale of how it came to be reads like a murder mystery. While McIlhenny’s name appears on the title page, almost all the book was written by Charles L. Jordan a gamewarden that was killed by a poacher.

I believe he was shot in the back.

mr.Ted gets awnery when he finds out his engraving makes him cold.

Just trying to make some kind of sense to the regulation.

O.M

Moses, the restrictions on seasons, bans against baiting and guns used on turkeys was a push-back against the widespread slaughter of Eastern wild turkeys from a bygone era where the population was severely reduced to the point of elimination in most of its original range. Widespread trench baiting and year round hunting of wild turkeys wiped out turkeys in some areas. There were isolated pockets of good populations scattered throughout the Southeastern U.S., mostly in remote river bottoms or in the sparsely human populated rugged sections of the southern Appalachians. In the last four and a half decades, huge strides were made in repopulating turkeys throughout their original range and into areas where they didn't exist originally. This was made possible by the development of the cannon fired net and release of wild birds into suitable areas for population growth. Previous attempts of releasing birds hatched in hatcheries and then released into the wild were dismal failures. The reintroduction of wild turkeys throughout the US is one of great success stories in wildlife management. Not everyone in the US thinks this is good as in some areas, the birds are a nuisance. Not so where I live. Gil

From a historical perspective, Davis's book is a good book. I have hunted some of the Savannah River areas he mentions in the book. Much of the areas he hunted are now under square miles of man made lakes.
He hunted with rifles and shotguns. One of his favorite shotguns was a Greener. The owner of one of the places Frank has hunted here in Georgia reportedly paid $100,000 for the original manuscript and one of the author's wingbone calls. Gil

Shooting deer at night by spotlight is absolutely legal in GA................ if you have a depredation permit. Been doing it for many years with the game warden's blessing. Ive got his cell phone number, and usually text him and tell him where I'm going to be so the helicopter crew doesn't get all jacked up.

SRH

He paid $50,000...for the call and manuscript. I warned him before the purchase that from what I had heard I was sure something was fishy. He didn't listen...turns out the diary was public record and anyone could copy it...the call I'm sure belonged to Davis.

The year he bought it...he had his secretary copy the manuscript and send me a copy and when I went hunting that year he handed me the call and said "go kill a turkey ithv it"...which I did.

As far as the Greener he hunted turkeys with...it was made about 1920 with no signs of any wear...I don't recall reading in his hunting diary about him killing a turkey with it maybe he did.
I don't recall many turkeys in the diary...lots of blue whislers and deer hounds...fact after reading the hunting diary I looked at Henry Davis differently.

I found out from the editor of "Garden and Gun" Art Carter that a writer doesn't have to walk the walk only type the hype.

After Arts death my life time subscription to Garden and Gun lasted a couple of years...I started to call and ask them why it stopped coming...but the deal I had made was with a dead man I didn't figure they'd care to hear about it.

The best fishing and hunting has always been in print and we all know of an outdoor sports writer who writes better than he can hunt or fish. One acclaimed "honest" fishing book, Fishless Days, Angling Nights by Sparse Grey Hackle (Allan Miller) has exactly one puny trout caught in the book. A buddy after reading a published account of a trip, remarked that he always wanted the writer to count fish and game because he didn't remember the same numbers and he was on the trip. Gil

That's something I was naive about...I always figured if you could write or talk the talk you could walk the walk.

About 25 years ago I met one of the well known turkey hunting writers....I won't call any name because people still see him as an authority on the subject....when I met him I was shocked when handed any type turkey call he was mediocre at best when it came to playing it.

After meeting him I discussed this with Art Carter...his reply was he's a good writer.

It changed my whole perspective on turkey hunting.

Charley Waterman, fishing, Charlie Elliott, hunting, were two writers who could walk their talk. I never met the two gentleman but from all accounts they were good folks. Gil

A buncha states have different rules. In Va, you can shoot them with a rifle or a shotgun. Lots of folks used to use the Savage model 24 O/U with 22 hornet over a 20 gauge. Good from close and decent out far. Personally, I can't imagine hunting them in the spring with a rifle. However, in my old days I shot a few with a rifle (including a muzzleloader) during the fall. All were gobblers even though hens were legal.

I was on a dove hunt in Illinois once where there was a minor outdoor writer also in attendance. He'd brought some kind of .410 and wasn't shy before the hunt bragging about how he was going to shoot a limit with his little gun. It wasn't a good year and the doves were fairly scarce. He ended up with about 6 birds. Then went around and borrowed birds from other hunters so he could take pictures for his article of the 15 bird limit he shot.

The gun show up yet?

Best,
Ted

Most of the rules of this nature were made back in the Days when a muzzle Loader was a True Muzzle Loader not one of these modern abominations shooting sabot bullets etc.
There is a World of difference in the carrying range of a .32 caliber round ball & a .32-20 bullet. These rules were for the most part made due to safety factors.

Yes it did, Ted. It's a pretty dang nice little gun. Took it out and touched off a few rounds yesterday. Decided to try some old Rem. 3" 1 1/4 oz. 6's I've had for years. Let's just say recoil is "noticeable".

The piece is well made and has a lot of visual appeal from its "blued steel and walnut" straightforwardness. Excellent satin blued receiver and polished blued barrel that's not too shiny. The contours of the receiver and the little "step" where the forend meets the receiver are nice, along with the very slim and trim forend. I've put a slip-on, lace-up leather pad (one like Stan has shown here before) on to increase l.o.p.

I like it.
JR

John,
Congrats. I think I touched off 1, 3” round in the Companion, but, it would have been 45 seasons ago, when I weighed 112 lbs.

Never had the urge to do it again.

I don’t use the gun often, but, it is handy for snowshoe grouse hunting, an obscure form of hunting that burns a ton of calories, and has never rewarded me with an actual grouse, but, has given me some startling flushes when I snuck up on a grouse in a snow den, that rocketed out from between the tips of my snowshoes. Tough to get a shot off, but a thrill.

What is the deal with turkey hunters and single shots? Wouldn’t a double give you a fast second shot? I ask as a non turkey hunter.

Best,
Ted

mr.Ted didn't you know it was manly to turkey hunt with small guage single shots and fairy dust sized shot...

Very seldom does a second shot present itself spring turkey hunting but when it does he'll be wishing he had brought more than a child's gun to a turkey fight.

I’ve been hunting turkeys since1975 and I’ve never killed one wth a second or third shot. When you miss or wound with the first shot, subsequent shots are 99.9% worthless.
JR

JoE, you don’t need a cannon to kill a turkey unless you’re shooting them too far. Let that sink in a little before further bloviance.
JR

Ted,
Shooting at a turkey’s head while he’s leaving as fast as he can by foot or wing is foolish. Most of the time you miss spectacularly, but on occasion you actually hit him somewhere. Nothing sadder than watching a wounded gobbler go out of sight.
JR

If I was wanting to shoot turkeys real far I'd be shooing TSS like you are...now days in the woods I shoot a .710 choke #4 Winchester Longbeard ammo.


If I only had intentions to kill one turkey a year I guess I'd hunt with a single shot too.

Is killing one turkey a year worth the effort.

Just saying.

You are shooting a shotgun with a certain sized pattern that changes size according to the distance to your target.

How could you be so sure that any shot is a total miss because the turkey flushed, ran or flew away ?

I've killed hard hunted gobblers towards end of season that the breast meat was gangrene from being shot.

I called in and shot a gobbler on Moss Island on the Mississippi river one year at the shot he flew up through the giant cotton wood trees like a 747 leaving town. About 150 yards away I see this dark flash...I'm thinking he went down.
I marked a big tree in my head picked up my calls and about 200 yards away I found him shortly after I reached the tree. I had to hold the gun up a long time...I'm left handed and was twisted as far to the left as I could...about a 20 yd shot. Open hardwood bottom no blind no decoys.

Years ago hunting in Missouri I shot a gobbler at about 35 yds and he took about three steps and sailed down the side of what looked like Mt Everest. I was pretty sure I had hit him. There were other turkeys gobbling so I turned my attention...that didn't work out so I came back to the spot. Started down the steep ridge when I got where I thought he might have landed I stopped and started a grid search....about the second time I moved down I noticed a 12" knee high stump with just a faint cover of briars...lucky I had my gun ready he came out like a Kentucky race horse. I still wonder how I touched him with the .650 choke I was shooting.

The point I was trying to make was most every turkey you shoot at with a shotgun is hit some where with shot....even the spectacular misses.

Frank, sounds like you are an expert at wounding turkeys, and pretty much suck at shooting them cleanly. Why am I not surprised.

If you were a real manly turkey hunter, you would hunt them without a call. Anyone can call one in and whack it with a shotgun -well actually, you seem to have difficulties, but average hunter can.

I'm not going to pretend that I've killed as many turkeys as Frank, but I've killed enough to feel comfortable giving my two cents about wounding birds and follow-up shots. First of all, a single-shot gun has it's roots in hunting and not as a stunt gun. Ruger No. 1 has a serious following among big game hunters. With a single shot for turkeys, it takes discipline. Actually, it's the same discipline that should be exercised by all turkey hunters regardless of how many shells the gun holds. Don't shoot until you have a killing shot, both in distance and in the clear. Don't shoot at a bird flying away from you. Some hunters have a false, erroneous confidence in repeaters in taking a shot knowing it's marginal. I've heard enough rapid three shot volleys by others in a turkey woods to know the results. While there may have been others, I can think of one instance where it took follow-up shots by me to put one down for the count. It was a stupid shot with my former SBE; one that I shouldn't have taken. We all are guilty one time or another of Stupid Turkey Hunter Tricks. Another time, I shot out of shells at a bird with a three shot Moss. 835 shooting 3.5" Nitros that I had to kill barehanded. (The second and third shots didn't connect.) Got the bejeebers spurred out of me doing it. I had to run it down and jump on it and break its neck. No small feat with barehands. As for gauge, I had a bird run off after being shot at with a 10 ga. double. It was in range. I couldn't believe it wasn't stone dead after the shot. In disbelief, I went looking for it. I was about to give up on the edge of a marsh when to my left, I heard it flopping in a pine top and recovered it. It was 150 yards from where I first shot it. Point is, gauge of gun is no guarantee. With a heavy load and big gauge, recoil is such that it makes a second shot recovery all the more difficult. In hunting cover, which is most of what I hunt, a second shot is just not going to present itself. As for only killing one bird that comes in with others, that's how I've done it my career even with repeaters with one exception in Texas on Rios. I prefer to go back later in the season and call up his buddy. John, have a good time with the Henry. Are you going to shoot it off the bead, rifle sights or red dot? Gil

I'll use the bead, Gil. My eyes are still pretty good.
JR

I can't see or hear you Freddy the free loader.

But you are not ignoring my Frank. You read every word. I think you are my biggest fan.

Honestly you've never typed a sentence on here worth reading...I might glaze over your post but put no stock in anything you post.

Hard to ignore the stench from a free loader.

Again, you read every word of the posts you claim to ignore. I wonder what motivates you sometimes. You seem to have some serious psychological problems.

How many birds have you wounded and lost I wonder Frank? Sounds like a bunch.

I don't entertain conversations with free loading liberal idiOts....

Maybe not, but you seem to love to converse with me. And read everything I say.

How many wounded Frank?

Thanks. Never have hunted turkeys, but, if I can figure out how to work a Setter into the hunting of them, I might give it a run someday.

Or, not.

Best,
Ted

Reads like an admission...

What say counselors.....Did he or did he not admit to being a free loading liberal idiOt ?

I say Guilty as charged.

You have admitted to wounding several birds already. Sound like you need to rethink your ammo, or maybe not go at all.

Do you see a shrink? If not, you should.

You think he could shrink my brain to the size of yours Freddy ?

Ted, it is pretty darn cool when dogs point a turkey in heavy grass. Everyone gets a little bit of a charge out that. I'm surprised it hasn't happened to you at least once or twice. The dogs get a bit edgy and when the bird breaks out, everyone is surprised. It's a good laugh for sure.

Superman Ted can't save your Free loading azz...

Just saying

Who needs saving? You Frank? Good luck with that.

Here's a new turkey gun project...12ga. Remington 870 Wingmaster Magnum. 26" rem choke barrel (left hand).

Shoots a killer pattern with a Pattermaster Code Black Goose tube with 3" #4 Winchester Longbeards. I installed a Pachmayer Decelerator Sporting Clay pad and had ever part I could Cerakoted in Cobalt.

It has happened exactly one time. Hunting Amish property near Little Falls, MN, my buddies GSP pointed turkeys that had backed up to a creek. My English Setter had seen, chased, and grown weary of turkeys for a decade, right on my own 1/2 acre yard in the suburbs, and didn’t acknowledge them as carbon based life forms.
They sounded like bombers trying to fly through the trees. We continued pheasant hunting after that.

Best,
Ted

My explanation for usually choosing a single shot for turkeys is simple. The last time I had to tote sixty pounds of gobblers two miles out of Bear Garden Swamp was the last time I took a repeater turkey hunting. If I have three shots and three come in I seem to go into automatic kill mode...Geo

Pitiful, George. Just pitiful.
JR

George is a killer...

JOe'ja is one of the few states you can kill the limit in one day.

Tell us again how yOu used to be able to kill 5 turkeys in one day in TN, (I remember the pics) and how now the turkey population has crashed, and how Tennessee is such a "Great State".

SRH

It ain’t no Mossberg 500, the safety position is all wrong, but, you learnin’ boy.

Best,
Ted

I owned one Mossy'turd pump in my life...

It was one too many.

Damn, this article must be fake news.

http://www.randywakeman.com/TheReasonforFederalHeavyweight6forTurkey.htm

He's as full of chit as a Christmas turkey....

"Federal Heavyweight #6 with its 15 gram / cc density is the equivalent of firing lead #2 shot. At 50 yards, Federal Heavyweight #6 has the same retained velocity and the same penetration as #2 lead, with a dramatically higher pellet count: 268 pellets vs. 144 pellets assuming the same 1-5/8 oz. payload. It actually has a higher pellet count than #4 lead, very close to #5 lead, yet with the 50 yard performance of #2 lead."

Only thing the internet Wizard has right are the pellet counts....

How can a lighter weight pellet like Federal Heavyweight #6 started out at less velocity than a heavier lead pellet end up with the same performance at any yardage....

Stupid plain stupid.

Don't shoot the messenger. Why don't you contact Randy directly and let him know of your concerns:

http://www.randywakeman.com/contact.htm

I ain't got time to fool with him...

You have more time than anyone else on the whole planet. You waste 100% of it right here on this forum.

Brent nosleinad don't you have a liberal ecology class you need to be teaching....

Dave sent me a PM thanking me for my donation...he tried to refund the .50 cents I donated in your name...something about it being more than you are worth.

Interesting....

Awesome Frank. Glad you let me know. I knew, for absolute fact, you could not resist posting.

You keep sending in money for me. I'll keep billing Dave for your behavior. Obviously, he sure likes you a whole bunch.

Not really wanting to get in the middle of a personal argument, BUT, just to lay out a few facts. The ability to maintain velocity & to penetrate, other things being equal, is based on a factor known as the Ballistic Coefficient (BC). The BC is derived from a factor known as Sectional Density (SD) times a form factor, thus if we fired two 30 cal bullets of 150 grains weight with one having a flat point & the other a long nose "Spitzer, the pointed one would retain a higher velocity down range & would also give a deeper penetration. Sectional density is derived from the weight vs the cross-sectional area of the bullet/shot.

In the case of shot pellets, all being round, they have the same form factor so that part of the equation can simply be ignored & it falls to Sectional density only. The weight of a sphere/round ball goes up in proportion the cube of its diameter while area goes up in proportion to its square. Thus the sectional density of the same material is proportional to its diameter. Thus a #2 shot @ 0.150" has a 36% higher sectional density than a #6 @ 0.110".

Lead shot has a density of around 11 gram / CC, don't have exact figures here but pure lead is 11.342. Thus the Heavy shot @ 15 density is 15/11 or
36% higher than the lead.

There are of course other factors involved, the larger diameter will disturb more tissue, cause more severe bleeding & unless extremely hard the lead shot is more likely to flatten a bit on impact giving a better energy transfer even though lessening its penetration a bit.

Miller, thank you for your post and perspective regarding pellet density. The Wakeman article is moot as Federal doesn't use the 15 g/cc any longer but instead uses 18 g/cc effective last year. Browning now offers ammo in 18 g/cc effective this year and Stevens has designed a .410 single-shot, the Stevens 301, using TSS loads. Using KPY Shotgun Ballistic software here is a comparison of chilled lead #4 versus TSS #9 with a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps in each load. The lead load contains 217 #4. Using a gel penetration of 1.5" as a standard, the #4's 1.5" penetration limit is at 59.6 yards. The TSS #9's 1.5" penetration limit is at 58 yards. The 1 5/8 oz load of TSS 9's contains 580 pellets. This load is a common load handloaded for 20 ga. by amateurs for more than a decade in 20 gauge and now by Federal and Browning. Severe bleeding is not the goal in killing a turkey. Shock to the central nervous system (CNS) is the goal by hitting the head and neck, a much narrower target profile than the turkey's body. The difference between chilled lead compared to Nickel plated or 5% antimony alloy is 4 more pellets and 57 yards as the limit for 1.5". The tungsten shot doesn't flatten against a hard surface and bores through. It also tends to shoot tighter than lead regardless of the type of buffer used in the lead loads. Folks can draw their own conclusions as to what this means hunting turkeys. Stevens, Browning and Federal have made their conclusions as well as hundreds of handloaders over the last decade. It's fair to say either load would be devastating inside 50 yards or more if put on target. Gil

Energy transfer is beyond their scope of reasoning.

As you just witnessed above there is little chance of your explanation penetrating the thick skulls of the TSs crowd...

Fact is Miller most of the boZozs are shooting a #9 size pellets thinking they are shooting steel plated turkeys and some routinely braged about 70 to 80 yard kills untill they got called out for doing it.

Then their story changes on the long distance kills...sadly they think it takes 600 fairy dust sized pellets to kill a turkey

There you go again. What worked for you in the third grade name calling isn't persuasive coming out of the mouth of a 63 year old man. Everyone is out of step but you. You are pretty sanctimonious about how you hunt turkeys, according to you only calling them under 40 yards and shooting them with #4 shot. Assuming it was you, what load "shot" were you using when you shot the bird with the scoped rifle pictured on the wall next to your 870?

Plastic bottled water, and hemp sex lubricant, next to a cheap 870 express.

Seen it all, now.


Best,
Ted

You stalking me mr.Ted ?

Actually that's a turkey my late uncle killed in Mississippi with a Marlin .219 Zipper back in the 1950's.

Ps...mr. Ted shame on you....you have such a twisted mind that's actually Hemp hand cream I bought at Walmart.

I'm going with the TSS #7's, 1 1/2 oz. load @ 1100 fps in my 20 ga. Henry. We'll see what happens at 35 yds or less, but I've got a pretty good idea. The few gobblers (tom is a Yankee term for a gobbler) I've shot recently were all inside 35 yds, some much closer.

I just don't think it's any sport in long shots on turkeys, the whole point being to fool him with your calling and tactics until he's about to be in your lap if you don't shoot.

And I absolutely abhor decoys. They're for rubes who have no skills with a call, tactic knowledge, or respect for their quarry. I ridicule them at every opportunity.
JR

Why do you think you need TSs inside 35 yards ?

When you hunt a turkey out of an enclosed blind with decoys you have defeated a turkeys only means of defense...his eye sight.

It should be against the law...just as 7 and 9 shot should be against the law to shoot a turkey with.

I might go rogue and shoot him at 40. I put blinds in the same category as decoys. Chickenshit method of murdering a turkey.
JR

Do you still feel it was okay to kill five turkeys in a day in TN? You justified it to me by saying it was "legal". Now, you ain't got all them turkeys to hunt, like you did. Told me so yourself.

So, it's okay to be legal and kill five a day, but not okay to be legal and kill one?

SRH

How much you want to bet there’s a real purist with a string attached to a stick with a noose at the end of it hiding under a bush saying the same thing about a guy with a $400 shotgun and $10 shells saying the same thing?


__________________________
I’ll give you odds too.

Any amount you're comfortable with, lonesome, but I wish him well.
JR

Why do you think you need 1.75-2 oz. of #4 lead inside of 35 yards?

Next time you have a turkey coming in and he's out of your sight, start singing "Turkey in the Straw' or howl like a coyote and see how that works for you if you think his eyesight is his only means of defense.

Gil;
I'm a bit confused by this statement. Is that supposed to read 5/8 oz of shot? And is this a volume measure using a measure graduated for 5/8 oz of lead shot. 5/8 oz of chilled lead would count to about 599 pellets & would weigh 1.022 oz using the 18:11 ratio.
What kind of powder does one have to use to push an oz of shot from a Fo-Ten?

There are approximately 360 #9 TSS pellets in an oz. I have bought some batches higher in count, closer to 380 per ounce meaning slightly smaller than 9. The actual density exceeds 18 g/cc. According to the provider it's 18.5. In TSS 9.5, there are 420 pellets/oz. In 1 5/8 oz. of TSS 9's there are 580 using the 360 count pellets. It is my understanding that there are 585 lead #9 in an ounce. I am not aware of a 1 oz. .410 load. Gil

Wish I could think that fast, Gil. Well played.
JR

Bravo..bravo

Answer a question with a question...guess he learned that in lAw skool.

Fast on his feet...What he said was silly it took some really fast thinking to come up with an hour and a half later.

A turkeys only real means of defense his eye sight...to think otherwise just shows you learned nothing hunting them.

Stan glad you survived eating the toad'e frOg.

The population decline state wide had nothing to do with me killing those turkeys.

Want to take another crAck at me jOe'ja toad bOy ?

As to noise in the turkey woods, a turkey has remarkable hearing. Bet you've busted more than one bird moving to one in the dark on the roost. At the first turkey sound a hunter makes, if he hears it, the gobbler knows to the tree where the sound came from. Not all noise spooks them all the time even on occasion walking under them in the dark. The noise of a shotgun blast sometimes spooks them, sometimes it doesn't. A turkey hears thunder often and maybe a shot sounds like a nearby lightning strike. I've shot enough birds to know that his nearby buddies sometimes will run; sometimes they won't and come in anyway. I've seen them stand around and spur the shot bird. Hunt'em enough and you'll see it. I've heard them gobble to a nearby shotgun blast and to a distant M1 Abrams firing from tank tables. But no one recommends singing "Turkey in the Straw" or "Oh, What a Beautiful Morning" or randomly shooting the gun into the air as part of a hunter's bag of tricks. And, no, Frank, no one hovers at the keyboard for hours or loses sleep thinking of a response to your kindergarten level insults like "toad boy". Gil

Actually no, I've gotten bored and I'm bowing out. It's no fun doing a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Guess you'll have to find another recipient for your ........... "wisdom".

SRH

It sure is Stan when "whit" is something you lack...

Did you ever have it or has father time taken it from you.

Truth is your panties are still in a wad over your pigeon gun thread....you know it and eYe know it.

I knew you'd come after me when I poked fun at your pigeon gun. You could've took it in humor like it was intended....

mr.Stanley you're alot easier for me to read as any gobbler.

And your stupid chit is not worth a reply counsler....

Ticket, please. All aboard...

Hard for you to defend toadmAn when he keeps taking the stand...

And you, a snake.

All this because you have little shot...

Ps...toadmAn will be back.

Frank, what happened to your post where you said I was as easy to read as a jAke? Is it because it rhymed with "snake"? I see you changed it already.

Ok, gentlemen (you too jOe), I opened this thread, so, with your permission, I'm now pronouncing it closed. Thanks for your input and participation. Any other contributions are null and void, but that doesn't mean there won't be any, especially since Ol' CoxEy will want the last word and piss on the fire. His retort in 10, 9, 8, 7, 6...
JR

Miller, check your pm's. Gil