So I'm always on the quest for American made doubles, and I've got an itch for an O/U, are there any Remmy O/U owners here? What's the good, the bad and the ugly with these guns?

This is kinda nice --

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101115462

Seems like a reasonable price. Maybe a pair?

I presume you are referring to the M32, a darling among the trapshooting crowd. It might be telling that the shooters never seemed to feel the need for a Miller trigger.

I haven't looked for a while, but up until five years ago or so the prices always seemed to be pretty attractive. I almost jumped on a very nicely engraved four-barrel skeet gun for $4500 , and have kicked myself once or twice on account of it.

As to the GI example, it is a stunning gun to be sure, but I suspect one could replicate it a couple times over for the price.

I was thinking something newer, 3200, 332 or 300.

I love 3200’s. I currently have a field grade with 28” bbls that I use for waterfowling on nice days. They’re heavy, robust, strong as an ox. I wouldn’t even think to carry it upland hunting, it’s just too heavy. Waterfowling, dove hunting, pigeons, etc. is what it seems to be built for. Pat Laib in Minnesota is the guy that does repairs, updates, upgrades and has a ginormous inventory of parts. Do some research...there were many updates and variations throughout the years. Most clapped out 3200’s you’ll find we’re basically shot to pieces. Hundreds of thousands of rounds shot to pieces. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that it was the first American designed gun to win Olympic medals in the shotgun events?

The 32-hundy has the best safety/barrel selector ever devised imho. Love it and have no idea why other o/u’s haven’t borrowed it.

I don’t know squat about Peerless, 332 or 300 Ideal, so can’t help you there. All I know is that none of them stuck around very long and I don’t know anyone that has extensive experience with any of those models.

I currently have three Remington 3200s.
Both skeet and field grades. One with barrel sets.

They are heavy and wonderful
Do look for the dot between the O/U and Serial number
on the bottom of the action to insure factory upgrades.

What will you use the 3200 to do?
I use mine mostly for skeet shooting and
expend many thousands of rounds per year with them.

Except for the 3 inch Mag model, they are not rated for steel shot.

P.S. Added and I also called Remington way back then
and got the answer NO STEEL

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?p=879215

I would stay away from the 332 and 300 guns

Mike

I shoot steel through my field grade....a lot of it. My 3200 digest 2 3/4” HV steel loads without a hiccup. I had the chokes opened to IC/Mod.
Same rules apply to almost all modern guns made from high strength steel....no steel shot through chokes tighter than Modified.

The 3200 is a beast.

I shoot a well-used model 32 skeet on pen-raised pheasant and chukar. Reliable, but awfully heavy.

From the link you provided...
Seems Remington agrees with me...

“Remington response:
Response (Ron) - 06/11/2007 11:13 AM
Dear William,

Thanks for contacting Remington Country. Yea you can use steel shot in the 2
3/4 shotgun, Remington only recommends not shooting steel in extra full choke
tubes or choke tubes marked lead shot only. If you use Improved, Modified or
full choke tubes they only state not to use larger then #2 steel shot in the
full choke tube.”

Remingtons second response:

“Dear William,

Thanks again for contacting Remington Country. I addressed your question this
way because you did not say what choke your barrel was, this way you have a
complete answer on all the chokes.

The good: It goes bang-bang. The bad (and the ugly): Have you seen one? Mine is a first year 3200. Pat Laib did what he felt was needed to it. Not all mods were needed according to him. I bought it second hand over 35 years ago not knowing the knock on it. It was before the internet. Maybe before electricity was commonly in service. Gil

In the link I posted at the start of this thread you're paying for the Winston Churchill engraving. the gun it is on is irrelevant.

From their introduction in 1973 I went through a handful of Model 3200 Skeet Guns, but settled into a dirt plain 1977 Model 3200 Skeet Gun with Skeetmaster tubes that I used exclusively for the next 11 years. Several of those years I recorded 3500 registered targets. Kept a second Model 3200 with the safety on it for Dove shooting. They are heavy tanks. More suited to shooting clay targets then hunting. In 2015 I dropped my gun off at Laibs, on my way east to the double gun event at Hausmann's, and asked them to do anything they thought it needed except for cosmetics. I was driving through Iowa on my way home when the called and said it was ready, so I swung by and picked it up. Haven't shot it much since. At 72 I'm more suited to my seven pound 20-gauge Superposed than the Model 3200s 9 pounds six ounces!!

Thanks guys! The weight thing is a downer, I had planned on upgrading from a Trojan to an American made O/U, the Remmy's seemed like they would fit the bill, but with the weight, I'll just keep the Parker.

I used to shoot skeet with a guy who was in love with the Peerless. So much so that he contacted Remington and wanted one in 20ga as soon as they came out. Never happened. One of my hunting partners has a Peerless he inherited from a good friend. From his experience with it, and from those of my skeet shooting acquaintance, who put a lot of rounds through his, they seem to be pretty reliable. Not sure why they didn't catch on.

Shot skeet yesterday with a guy who has a 3200. He doesn't shoot really high volume, and at least from the gun's exterior appearance, it doesn't look very used. But then if used only for targets (and I don't know whether he bought it new), it probably wouldn't show typical hunting wear. Anyhow, very first round, he couldn't get the gun closed on station 1. I suggested that he take off the forend, break the gun down. When he did, a piece of metal fell out. Broke off a part that sits just inside the front edge of the receiver. Not sure whether his gun has had the factory updates, or whether that might have been part of the problem. But someone did tell him that he should contact Pat Laib.

I'll fall in line with all the others that have carried a 3200 in the field and commented on its weight. I used my skeet gun once, only once, in grouse country.

Maybe a Marlin model 90 would scratch the American O/U itch?

John

Or a Savage Model 420 or 430. Also, the Marrone.

Everyone’s forgetting the only American designed, American made O/U which was designed as a field gun. Ruger Red Label. Find a 26” or 28” gun and enjoy it. I like the early fixed choke guns and find the IC and MOD guns to be very good in the field. Weight is fine. They are not made for heavy volume of clay shooting like the 3200 was or K80 so they don’t tip the scales at nine pounds.

The Model 90 feels like a Woodward compared to the American-made Savage OU's (which were only produced for a short time prior to WWII. Post-war, Savage put their names on OU's imported from Finland and Italy.) My first double was a Savage 420. Had all the dynamics of a 2x4. And that was in 20ga.

L. Brown's friend broke a part that has to be fixed by Pat Laib. Remington won't fix that part any more. I am down to one 3200, a very lightly used field gun. I shot competition NSSA and NRA International birds for many years with no problems. As long as Pat Laib is alive, I would shoot them in competition again. The 1984 Olympic Gold Medal was won with one, shot by Matt Dryke.

A 12 ga. Ruger Red Label of the original design is a heavy, ugly, ill-fitted pig-on-a-shovel. The 20 ga. is ill-fitted, but has decent dynamics. Triggers are awful.
JR

If the 3200 was so great it would still be around. On GI there’s a Remington 32 for sale with Krieghoff barrels. Interesting gun.

Actually a Remington 32 can be a usable field gun. I have one with 28" barrels, double triggers and no rib, it weighs 7 lb 9 1/2 oz.

Gosh John, don't beat around the bush. Tell us what you really think. LOL

He obviously is carrying an agenda.

Not cousin John....no way.

There was or is a Premier model Remington over under that I can find no mention of on google or Gunsinternational or anywhere else on the internet. I saw one sell at an auction over the weekend, a delightful litte 28 gauge, case colored with gold birds and Remington logo in gold on the bottom. I found out that it was made by Sabatti, a known Italian company. I knew nothing of its retail price, so I was in the dark and couldn't bid. I would have bought it in a heartbeat if I knew what they sold for when they were being catalogued. I believe it sold for about $1600, but I could be mistaken. I looked it up. It sold for $1650. Does anyone know anything about this gun?

It was a Sabatti.
They were always considered heavy for gauge.
The Peerless had some traction around here in the 90's, but as they broke, they disappeared from our local clubs. Haven't seen one in years. Repair was a cumbersome process.
I never saw a 28. That would be a rare item.
Plenty of 12's around.

I have a Red Label Sporting in 20 ga with 30" barrels and I actually prefer it to my Beretta 687 SP-II 20 ga with 30" barrels. The Beretta is prettier and has better wood, but the Ruger handles better for me. A Red Label 12 ga makes a very decent duck gun.

I have a Peerless that works well as a field gun, and I have used it for sporting clays a moderate amount. When my son got old enough to wield it I passed it to him, but got him an 11-87 when I felt like the high volume was rattling the little O/U apart.

I had an early model 32 with a plain (no rib) barrel and that weight reduction helped quite a bit. I still kick myself for selling it. It was choked .004 and cylinder and it was the devils right hand on birds over a pointer.

CHAZ

No agenda, just calling 'em like I see 'em. The 2nd gen. 12 ga. Red Label was a vast improvement over the first, but it died soon after introduction. I like Ruger guns, but if you ever held an original 12 ga. Red label, you know what I'm talking about. VERY nose heavy due to overly thick barrels to accommodate their choke tubes, gaps in wood-to-metal and metal-to metal fit, horribly mis-matched wood, crunchy and heavy triggers, unreliable mechanically.

The best Red Label by far was the first run 20 ga. with the blued receiver and no choke tubes.
JR

My BIL has an early 12. He loves it. Me? Meh.
While some others might vociferously disagree, I see no reason to not "call them like you see (handle or own) them."

I also have one of those, 20 ga, 26", IC/Mod. Great chunk of wood on that one. I think the best Red Label is the 28 ga/28". Have one of those, too. I am guilty of liking Rugers.

I watched Matt speed shoot a round of Skeet riding on a unicycle once. Shot the entire round in less than two minutes. Went straight. Might be a video of it on YouTube. One heck of a shooter. Back many years ago, the service branches had several great shooting teams in clay target as well as what most people think of as marksmanship disciplines.

I saw John Michael Morris, of S. Carolina, shoot a round of skeet straight (25 X 25) from the hip in 60 seconds flat, timed with a stopwatch. He then shot a round of skeet, straight, from a bicycle shooting with one hand from the hip, as he steered the bike with the other.

I saw Tom Knapps former partner and now Benelli exhibition shooter, Tim Bradley, perform in Savannah a couple years ago. John Michael is so much better than Bradley he makes him look like a rank amateur.

SRH

There's two guys at my club who shoot Rugers. I've looked at both, not sure what gen. they are, but both have good wood to metal fit and decent wood. Ya, they look a little different, but nothing I find offensive.

Some of the guys at my club struggle with shooting a high/low pair in 60 seconds.........

Off topic, but regarding Ruger RL’s.....when I first got into double guns (early 1990’s), I remember fawning over a Ruger RL 20 gauge at a now defunct sporting goods store in Wichita. Rusty’s? Anyway...I thought it was gorgeous. Truth be known...I still like them. I’ve never owned one, but I would. I thought it was a nicer gun than the Citoris, Berettas, etc that I’d asked the to see. When I’d stop into that store to pick up reloading supplies, I would always ask the salesman if I could hold that Ruger RL. I couldn’t afford it (E-5 didn’t make as much as they do now), the salesman knew it too, but he didn’t seem to mind letting me dream.
I do know quite a few people that do or have owned them. I’ve never really heard a complaint other than reading on a few bbs’s about issues with barrel regulation. All the ones I’ve seen in action have worked as they should. If I ever get a hankering for a 28 gauge, it’ll be a RL.

And just to stay on topic....I still love my 3200. Took just a few limits of greenheads with it this season and I love taking it to the clays course too. And as to why they don’t make them anymore....bean counters. That’s it. Other guns can be made much much cheaper than the extremely well built 3200. And ya....they’re that good EEB.

People just need to understand that the 3200 is not an ideal rough or walk up hunting gun. With that said, if I was doing a typical push & block type hunt for pheasants, damn straight I’d block with my 3200. Clays, Doves, pigeons, waterfowling...the 3200 shines.

Well stated re the 3200, LeFusil. The Remington 3200 was and always will be one of the world's great over/unders. It's not for everything, but neither is any other shotgun.
JR

I have two 28” 28’s which I use to break in new shooters. I almost had to tell my son to breakup with my future daughter in law. She liked one so much she just did not want to give it back. Also have a 30” 20 which does well on Sporting Clays. Son has a 30” 12 that works well for him. Our total number of problems with all these guns is zero. Load them, shoot them. About as simple as it gets.

Tried my best to bring my son up right, with sxs guns. Turns out he took to OU's instead. Asked me to find a nice one for him. I got him an early RL 20ga, 26", IC/M. Very nice wood, case colored receiver. About the only knock on them is that they're not very light compared to various Beretta and Citori models. Getting older, so thought I'd find an even nicer gun for the kid. Came up with a Citori Grade III in 16ga. Said it was a nice gun but he liked his RL better.

Red Labels are seriously under rated by a lot of hunters and shooters.

Not an American O/U, but I have owned a Savage(Valmet) Model 333, 28", M/F, 20ga, 3", since 1976. It was the first shotgun I owned and has been used for everything. Heavy, built like a tank, and zero issues since '76. I am told the Valmet is a Remington/K gun clone.

John

Hard to get any more
American than a John Browning Superposed.

American design but not American made.

Who's fault is that ?

Winchester’s. Entirely.

Joe, Not a matter of fault. John Browning grew tired of Winchester buying his designs only to never make them. I’m sure he expected future redesigns or a Royality. Winchester bought his designs so no one else could compete with his designs they already owned and made. Had a heart attack not occurred, Browning arms might never have been a company, importer or anything else. We'd see more Remington made Browning designs.

Original issues of this post were American Design and American made. If you want to split hairs, which you never do, the 3200 is both but not for the reason most think. The 3200 is not really much to deal with the 32. The Remington 32 is mostly a upgraded copy of a French design as I remember. The 32 was the inspiration for all Kreighoffs k32, k80 and do on.

I use to own a early version of a gun which predates Kreighoff K32. Mine had heavy Germanic engraving and was exactly like the Remington 32 in every way. It was a Europia. I think it was made under contract by Kreighoff. The Kreighoff K32 is a improved copy of the Europia which was a copy of the Remington 32.

The 3200 is not really a copy of the Remington 32 or K32. The barrels are open in the middle, there is a receiver hood and it has two barrels but everything else is different. So in the end the 3200 is technically an American designed and American made gun. I’ve owned many of them in the past but am now down to six or eight of them.

I know all that.

The superposed was American designed and FN made that's a hard combination to beat.

One of the touted features of the 3200 was its fast firing speed. Also, the safety on/off and barrel selection is one movement, left or right, as it's none of the "up and over" one way or the other as in some OU's.

Safety is easy to operate but Skeet and Trap shooters almost always removed the safety and locked it into ready to fire position. Did this to prevent accidental putting the safety back on when in use. That’s why you will find so many 3200s with no safety levers on them. I never did this but countless shooters did. I figured you should be smart enough to not put it on by accident.