I wanted to pass along some info I got from Kent regarding their bismuth loads. Yhe 2.75" 12 gauge loads are loaded to 10,000-10,800 psi. I had asked if they were loaded to SAAMI or CIP standards as Kent's Gamebore ammo is in the U.K. Sou ss like its within the service pressures for nitro proofed 3.25 ton guns!

More infro reported in 2016

Bismuth 2 1/2” @ 1400 fps 1 1/16 oz. - 9800 psi;
1 1/8 oz. - 10,000 psi

Tungsten Impact 2 3/4” @ 1400 fps, 1 1/4 oz. - 9900 psi;
1 3/8 oz. - 11400

1925 - 1954
2 1/2” & 2 5/8” 12g maximum service load was reduced to 3 Dr. Eq. with 1 1/8 oz. shot with a mean pressure of 3 1/4 tons by LUP = 9,800 psi by Burrard’s conversion.
The 2 3/4” 12g max. service load was 3 3/8 Dr. Eq. with 1 1/4 oz. shot with a mean pressure of 3 1/2 tons = 10,640 psi by Burrard’s conversion.

The conversion provided by the Birmingham Proof House in 2001
2 1/2” / 3 tons = 8,938 psi
2 3/4” / 3 1/4 tons = 9,682 psi
3” / 3 1/2 tons = 10,427 psi

I've been shooting Bismuth for years...what does what you posted have to do with Kent Bismuth ?


dOc I'm not sure where you googled your info. I've not saw any 2.5" bismuth shells...not saying they aren't some out there.

(Ps...try and do better on your copy and paste instAnt research next time.)

jOe, I am not sure of dOc's sources or how his info relates to the info provided by claycrusher1990 who was giving info on the "new" Kent 2.75 bismuth loads.

However, RST sells 2.5 bismuth in 12, 16 and 20 gauge and I have shot those.

jOe: I know how much thinkin' hurts, but try to follow the dots

Kent has (boomer) Bismuth loads
http://kentgamebore.com/products/bismuth-premium-shotshells.html

Kent markets Gamebore Traditional (lighter) Bismuth also
https://gamebore.com/uk/cartridge/game/12G-Gamebore-Bismuth

IF the box of the shells to which claycrusher is referring is marked
These cartridges are suitable for use in:
70mm case length: Guns with a chamber length of 2 3/4” or longer, nitro proofed to a service pressure of 3 1/4 tons per square inch (900 kg per square cm)
We can believe the shell maker

10,800 psi however is not what the British consider to be 3 1/4 Tons, which I assume is the service pressure for which claycrusher's gun is proved

Trying to be of help here. Feel free to share what you've not saw and correct me. I cOuld be lying ya' knOw.

And, Bismuth Upland loads new for July 2018:

http://kentgamebore.com/upland-loads/bismuth-premium-upland-shotshells.html

Would these shells be within the service pressures for guns nitro proofed at 3.25 ton?

Kent, owned by a Canadian, anticipated making lower pressure for the load but magnumitis won.

If you do need 2 1/2" Bismuth cartridges then Eley make them if they are available to you. Lagopus…..

Here are the Eley specifications, and they are boomers also; pressures are not reported
https://www.eleyhawkltd.com/products/game-cartridges/vip-bismuth

I did not find a U.S. Eley dealer, but Maxam Outdoors owns both Rio and Eley Hawk. Here are the Rio Bismuth loads
http://www.rioammo.com/en/rio_ammo/products/non_lead_cartridges/bismuth

I had seen that Rio had an affiliation with Eley and even thought they might be producing the bismuth ammo in the UK under CIP rules, but when I asked for pressures I never got an answer when I was assured that "they would get back to me". That's what's nice about B&P. If you go to the Italian web site you get pressure curves for everything. Unfortunately, no non-toxics except steel from them. Maybe things will change in the future.

As for RST they seem perennially out of stock for non-toxic offerings. Although they seem to have stock now, if you like 7/8 ounce loads in 16 gauge. I have a bunch of 16 gauge 7/8 non-toxic I picked up from Griffin and Howe when they were closing them out. They are quite dirty. I have a Connecticut Shotgun Revelation coming in the next couple of weeks, I'll just shoot the Kent bismuth. All of the public land I hunt in WA state requires non-toxic ammo.

Bruce

I don't have any trouble thinking doc...you know my hunting dog passed too but I'm not going to use him to get sympathy.

But unlike some know it all copy and pasters I have shot bismuth shells hand loaded and factory bismuth shells out of a Damascus barreled guns and several newer guns.

No doubt in my mind. I'll assume you were trolling for a reply again. They say confession is good for the soul. How many tears did you cry to get this thread locked, when the ploy to use your deceased dog for sympathy and diversion blew up in your face like a set of badly pitted barrels plugged with mud?

How to Besmirch the memory of your dead dog



I realize that detente is supposed to be a little more snarky, but I'm still learning how it's done.

I got my doubts about him even owning a dog.

I'm willy willy good at following da dOts Doc....

....dOc sAid he knows when eYe think it huts....

.....that's his nice Christian way of say'n he thinks I'm a heAthen reee...tard....

.......Dr.Drew loves his Damascus.....

....dOc loves to talk and dream about Damascus....

....Dr. Drew told me he did nOt own or shoot any Damascus guns....

....dOc is a master on internet research and copy n pasting making dumb people think he discovered something....

....I bet ol'dOc has sore fingers from copy an pAst'n his internet ree'search.....

...dOc thinks that kicking and scream'n on the internet call'n folks liars is the proper Christian way and some how makes him look like the superior mOnkey....

....did I miss any dOtz dOc ?

....PS....dOc I wish you could see me when I paint be'twingst the lines.

Drew, I think we may have discussed the guidance on British shotshell boxes previously. Unfortunately, that guidance contains a fairly significant disconnect. We know that 3 1/4 tons, as stated on the box, is a service pressure measurement. However, we also know that 900 kg per square cm is NOT a service pressure measurement, but rather a proof pressure measurement. The British, even after converting to metric marks, continued to use proof pressures that were, in fact, lead crusher values. 850 bar, per the Birmingham Proofhouse, equates to a SAAMI proof pressure of 13,920 psi, and a service pressure of 10,730 psi. If we go by the more recent (metric) figure and increase those values based on 900kg or bar, we arrive at a service pressure which is just shy of 11,400 psi--bumping up against the 12ga SAAMI service pressure figure of 11,500 psi.

All of which leaves some doubt in my mind. I own an Alex Martin 20ga, original proof 2 1/2", 7/8 oz. It has since been reproofed and properly marked as 2 3/4", 3 1/4 tons. Should I shoot my Gamebore Pure Gold 1 oz 2 3/4" loads in that gun? Going by the 3 1/4 ton reference on the box and my gun's 3 1/4 ton proof, I would seem to be good to go. IF that gun carried the 900 bar (or kg) mark of a more recent 20ga reproof, I might do so. But given the gun's age and extremely light weight (under 5 1/2 pounds), I think I'd stick with the Gamebore Traditional Game loads made for 2 1/2" guns, service pressure 3 tons (850 kg/sq cm). Or even better, I might opt for RST 7/8 oz factory loads.

The two different service/proof pressures do leave a degree of doubt . . . but I'd sooner err on the side of caution.

As always thanks Larry...I just wish us and the Brits spoke the same language

I don't know about the pressure in these shells, but I was completely unimpressed with their killing power on Blue-winged Teal in a 20 gauge.

Drew, I think they're still trying to get even with us for the Revolution!

I am reminded why I dont visit this forum much anymore. So many ready and willing to share, a few always looking to tear down and trash talk. Ill check in again next year.

Rogers has them on sale guys

I bought an assortment from Roger's, but won't get to try them until mid-October. When I ordered mine weeks ago, there were only a few loads listed at sale prices, but those prices were very good.