I have found a 2 1/2 12 gauge with 2 sets of barrels. one is cy/cyl, the second set is ic/mod.
Is it feasible and practical to convert the cyl/cyl set to 16 or 20 gauge? The shotgun now weighs 6lbs 3 oz with either set of barrels. Would the conversion/sleeving add much weight? Any thoughts on cost?
If it isn't a bad idea, who would you have do the work?
What about Brieley full length tubes? It would be cheaper than sleeving and weigh 13 oz if I recall correctly
rtw, Toby Barclay makes a series called Aceptor that are light 12 bore guns sleeved to 16 bore. They usually handle more like a standard game gun rather than a light game gun. So, yess, it is both possible and, in cases, practical. It is not an inexpensive idea, though. Usually, only higher grade guns or special interest guns warrant sleeving. There is still a considerable supply of shootable guns at prices that make sleeving seem expensive.
I recently had Toby do a gun for me and the results are super satisfactory.
DDA
Not sure if you are interested in only chamber sleeving the cyl/cyl barrels? If so, Briley charges $375 per barrel to sleeve from 12 to 16 gauge.
http://www.brileygunsmithing.com/c-879-full-list-of-shotgun-gunsmithing-pricing.aspx
They make chamber adapter for 12/20 gauge conversion. They work fairly well and add almost no extra weight to the gun that may change how it handles. Any change like this is best if reversible and not too expensive to try. The Briley tubes are great because you can just remove them and the gun is back in its original condition but they do add about 13 ounces to the guns weight. That may make the gun handle very differently.
I had a 16 with ruined chambers which I made a set of 20 gauge reducers and installed them permanently. Had to replace the extractor and re-cut the rims lightly. Ended up with a over bored 20 which is great on clay targets and pass shooting doves late in the season.
Gun Handling 101!
There are four factors to gun dynamics: weight, teeter-totter balance (at center of gravity), unmounted swing effort (moment of inertia at CG) and mounted swing effort (MOI at butt). There is no such thing as overall balance that sums up the gun's handling. Contrary to popular belief, gunmakers did build to certain weights and to certain teeter-totter balance. Unfortunately, they never picked up on swing effort. A gunmaker may or may not have built a given gun to a client's specification for weight and balance. Swing efforts went their very own way. Gunmakers built to only two of the four factors, if any at all. Do not lose sleep over what the maker "intended to build." He didn't know.
Every shooter interested in shooting better/well should know his preferred stock dimensions and his preferred weight and balance. Advanced shooters should learn their preferred swing efforts. In the case of both stock dimensions and handling factors, the farther from you preferred dimensions and factors the more you will have to compensate.
Handling factors can be changed without undue effort. Adding weight experimentally is as simple as taping on things of known weight, like wheel weights or medicine bottles filled with shot to a known weight. Reducing weight is more difficult except for pulling a butt pad. The amount of weight you add or remove will be exactly additive or subtractive to the gun's prior weight.
Balance is changed by the amount of weight added or removed times the length from the weight's location to the CG of the gun. Usually, experimenting with weight, balance and handling are best conducted starting with a lighter gun and adding weights.
If anyone is interested, I'll discuss further.
DDA
A 6 lb 3 oz 12ga is a delight to hunt with. Sounds like you have a perfect early season woodcock and grouse rig and a great late season grouse and pheasant over dogs all in the same gun.
If the 2 1/2" chambers are the problem a MEC 600 with a 2 1/2 conversion is a much cheaper solution. I load lead 11/16 9's for skeet 7/8 oz 8's for SC and trap 1 oz for upland hunting and 7/8 oz of ITX 6's and 1 oz of bismuth 5's for waterfowl. I even shoot 2 1/2's in all my 2 3/4" shotguns just so I don't have to deal with two different length shells.
Thank you all. I'm still sorting through options and learning, hopefully, as I do.
Rocketman-I, for one, am interested in your continuing. Michael Mc(notch wrote about this some in his book, "Shotgunning and Shooting".
Briley no longer chamber sleeves down a gauge. They will sleeve at the same gauge but not down a gauge. I spoke to them last year about sleeving a 10 down to a 12; they would not do it.
Thank you all. I'm still sorting through options and learning, hopefully, as I do.
Rocketman-I, for one, am interested in your continuing. Michael Mc(notch wrote about this some in his book, "Shotgunning and Shooting".
OK, rtw, here comes Gun Handling 102.
Make up a 4 oz bottle of shot. Tape it to the gun starting at the muzzle, every 4 inches to the butt. Measure and record distance from teeter-totter point to front trigger for each weight location. This experiment will give you a good understanding of how weight changes can change balance point. Hold the gun in your hands with each weight location. Pay close attention to any urge to shift your front hand. The balance point where you are most satisfied with your front hand location is "close" to your preferred balance. Repeat using a 2 oz weight to see how smaller weights can have the same effect as a larger weight when further from the CG.
The above will give you a good basic understanding of balance, your preferred balance location, and how to move balance to a more preferred location.
Questions?
DDA
Briley no longer chamber sleeves down a gauge. They will sleeve at the same gauge but not down a gauge. I spoke to them last year about sleeving a 10 down to a 12; they would not do it.
That is interesting - did they give a reason why they no longer do it?
Briley did not give me a reason, but from those who have used Briley for that service the word is the guy who did the chamber and barrel sleeving left the company. All the expertise retired or was laid off.
The biggest thing I learned from Don about gun handling is that weight of the gun alone is a terribly poor indicator of handling characteristic(s). It is generally assumed, as was by me, that a lightweight gun is too "whippy", and moves too fast. It is further assumed that this causes all sorts of maladies in shooting flying ........... stopping the gun when you fire, getting too far out in front, and others.
While weight plays a role in this, where the weight is concentrated in the gun plays a much bigger role. If the mass is concentrated in the "center" (the action), and the ends (muzzles and butt) are relieved of mass, the gun will indeed move very easily between the hands, often too easily, and we won't shoot it well. But when the same weight gun has it's center mass lessened and moved towards the ends it "slows it down" a bit, the result of having greater swing effort.
So, it is easy to see, once we understand this truth, that greater swing effort may be a great plus with a very lightweight gun, while less swing effort may be desirable for a very heavy gun. Don spun a little 4 lb. 14 oz. Yildiz S x S .410 of mine and found that the MOI of the gun was almost identical to that of many 12 ga. English game guns. It helped explain to me why I shoot the little featherweight as well as I do.
Hope I'm not boring anybody with this, it's just extremely eye opening when the "light comes on" concerning gun weight.
SRH
Stan,
Not at all, very informative and glad you posted this. It explains why some of my lightweight guns shoot well for me. Some of the light alloy framed guns seem slower because of the weight extremes at the ends.
Karl
No-the gun I had looked at came with 2 barrels. I decided against purchasing it.