Why are double guns especially English, dropping in value with a soaring and bull stock market? And American guns aren't that great either. The DOW is 23,500 for Christ' sake. There's gobs of money out there. You got me as to why??

Just a theory, mind you, but I suspect it has more to do with demographics and politics than money. As the Boomers head for the exits, their toys and hobbies will likely head there with them. As much as I hate to admit it, our country is changing now at a fairly-rapid pace. I find many of those changes both alarming and distasteful (I am a Boomer after all, albeit towards the tail of that "pig in the python"). Cars, real estate and other big-ticket items are also similarly challenged.

Own stuff because you love it, not because you think it will be a good investment.

What Lloyd said. Anything 12 gauge is tougher, it seems, inspite of it being the most vesatile.
If M. McIntosh and D. Zutz were still writing books about double guns, I supect they would be complaining how hard it is getting to be to sell them, too.

Best,
Ted

So, point me at a bargain.

All I ever see is overpriced shit.

Where are these great deals?

What Lloyd said! The stock market is only providing $$$ to people who have money in it. And if you have money in the market, you aren't pulling it out to buy an asset that has questionable long term value (at this point in time).

Of course, I'm with shotgunjones and can't find a great deal.

Ken

My late Great Aunt and late mother both had entire houses full of antiques and fine china. The value of it has dropped by more than half in the last 20 years of their life. And it has continue to go down in value. Since demand for antiques is low, even in my family, I had complete choice of what I wanted. But still, I can only deal with so much stuff. It is the same with guns. Interest is dropping every day in the general population so as demand goes down and soft prices are getting worse. Decent Fox shooters, which would have brought 800 ten years ago, are worth more like 500 now. Beaters are just about impossible to sell and same with worn out British doubles. High quality will always have a market but lesser guns will not bring decent prices ever again.

I keep hearing about this, but everything I'm looking at does not seem and cheaper than 3 or 4 years ago. Maybe the middle end of the English gun market hasn't changed? I did have a heck of a time selling a mid level Spanish double 2 years ago, but English guns seem high and often over priced still

If the price seems high it’s because of a wishful seller trying to get his money back. Make an offer.

I look at it as an amazing time to buy high quality guns to use in the field. It’s a time to hunt with some the best guns ever made. There are better ways to make money.

It's very likely that sales for the entire industry is down, the threat of increasing restrictions have eased for now. After that, discretionary spending means hugely different things to different people, and probably lags day to day stock market swings. I'd bet looking over statements for smaller stock based funds might have a bit to do with confidence in spending.

By many accounts here, the preference is cultivated with very few started on doubles, but almost none that are in the market for used single shot 22's and pump shotguns. We'll see.

Very much the same here in the U.K. with bargains galore. I put it down to youngsters these days not going into fishing or shooting but spending too much time on their smartphones instead of going outdoors and doing things. High end guns are still up there but decent middle of the road; but still desirable stuff, is going very slowly. Recent local gun auction had a leather H & H gun case that I was mildly interested in with a guide price of £100 to £120. It had various oil bottles and bits and bobs in the case though not marked H & H. I was going away at the time of the sale but thought of leaving a mid range bid. In the case was, believe it or not, a free gun to go with it. A plain and well used; but still sound, in proof and with clean bores, Belgian box lock ejector. Case and gun fetched just £70! The oil bottles alone were worth about that. Wished I had bid on it now. Same sale was a very nice, clean, tight little lightweight box lock non-ejector 12 bore by E. Anson of Birmingham in its original case; guide price £220 to £250, so I suppose a reserve of around £200. It didn't even get a bid. I did buy a 16 bore box lock non-ejector by the Midland Gun Company in its factory canvas case and about 95% original colour hardening for just a bid of £120. Great little gun that would have been three times that price 25 years ago. Hammer guns are just about holding up if they are in decent condition as are small bores. Strange times! Lagopus.....

Prices remain high even when demand is relatively low. If you spend time browsing and visiting various shops...you’ll notice most of their stock has been sitting for YEARS. And if there is a price drop...it’s extremely minimal, almost laughable. I don’t know exactly how some of these guys remain in business to be honest. What kind of business can survive when things sit on your shelf for years??
I have noticed that there is a huge uptick in gun services though...most Gunsmith-gunmakers I know are thriving and have more work (mostly big jobs, the expensive kind) than they have had in many years. People are making money...they’re just not buying vintage guns en-masse like they were in the 90’s and early 2000’s.
Another observation...even though most doubles do not seem to be selling at a fast pace, prices do seem to be increasing, especially on over/unders. Used guns that were selling for 1k a few years ago...have climbed into the 1.5 to 2k range.
Explain that.

Gun shops do tend to keep slow moving guns for what I would agree is way too long. But we are thinking about the Walmart high turnover marketing model and many gun shops don't. If they turn over the black guns fast enough they can be happy to keep slow moving items on the racks for a very long time. Last year I was looking at two Ithaca 28 ga. pump guns which had been on the racks since the current maker took over making '37's and brought them out in 2009. We are talking about the next best thing of a decade. Brand new, without the box guns, on the racks for years. If he had the boxes I would have bought them just to sit them aside. The owner seemed in no hurry to move them and he was selling other guns while I was there. He sold three long guns and several hand guns while I was in the shop. His price was decent on the 28's but his prices are his prices and he does not come off them which is his right. His business model seems to work because he has been open for decades.

Another reason gunshop owners don't sweat selling slow moving guns is because some are consigned rather than owned by the shop. Gil

Stock market doing great money very good many classic guns will be coming into the market so looking for special needle in a haystack of guns will be fun. The top prize is the pinnacle of gun making skill of time past where least steel was used to make gun pass proof be durable and safe to use. The contestants come from StEtienne or Birmingham. Who will win?

An overlooked factor seems to be the California Effect. With over 38 million people, this gawdawful state represents more than 10% of the country's population, and that is a huge section of the market. The state gummint has done everything it can think of to make buying guns and ammo as difficult as possible, not just with the paperwork but also with increased costs. Many shops and FFLs either won't do interstate transfers at all, or they price the service so that it makes no economic sense for the buyer to bring in a low to mid-range gun. Buying a parts gun is almost out of the question because it can easily cost $200 in fees to bring in $150 worth of parts. The state's ban on lead ammo for all hunting statewide (fully effective 7/1/19, I think) is making many older and small bore guns essentially useless for hunting in this state. And forget about ordering specialty ammo from RST or Polywad or anyone else, because the state has banned internet ammo sales effective 1/1/18. Local dealers don't stock about half of the factory ammo I use, and what they do stock is grossly overpriced compared to online stuff. And after January 1 it will be illegal to bring in more than 50 rounds from out of state. Load your own? I'm not going to load steel .410s for doves with my full choke Model 42. So the old guns are getting less and less use, and my two recent purchases are Winchester Black Shadow gas semi-autos in 12 and 20, because they will take any ammo I feed them. We are screwed, and I suspect that is affecting the market for doubles.

Voting in local elections for state legislature and other representatives is really important. Inability to get shells to the door and mandate for non-tox shot use for upland gunning would have significant impact on this already struggling segment of gun market.

I'll have to agree there. I see a lot more states going from red to blue than I do seeing states go from blue to red.

You are right, Treblig.

I think the reason for this is because the majority of blue voters arent conscientious voters. They are asked whether they want more of something, and ignorant of how those things get paid for, they always enthusiastically say YES. Its just so much easier to vote blue...MORE of EVERYTHING! Yay!

This is whats happened to New Hampshire...the "Live Free of Die" state.

People in Taxachusetts started noticing how much cheaper life in NH was (no income tax and no sales tax, legislative reps have offices at home, and only go to the capital to vote on something).

So they move north in DROVES. But then they start voting for all the same nonsense that drove them out of MA in the first place! They are like locusts, and they dont even know it.

Texas is experiencing this now too. All the major cities are now blue, as are some of their suburbs.

We have to educate people how govt works, because ultimately if you get away from the dumb voters they will follow you and not even wonder why its better where you are than where they left.

The public has been dumbed down to the point that polls indicate they have no idea how the govt even works. Couldnt even tell you the 3 branches and their supposed functions.

NDG

I have a good friend who just picked up two Boss guns at the Julia's Auction for under 20K.
Now these are not collector's guns mind you but still at Best Guns London made.
They need some tidying up but to buy a Boss 16 for under 10K you have lot's of room for making improvements.
Now I own four nice English guns and wonder if I would ever be able to see me getting at least my money out of them based on this last auction.

The comparison of double gun prices to stock prices is very interesting.

If you bought tech stocks when tech stocks were peaking, and sold them when demand for them was lower, you probably didn't do so well. Same for energy stocks, pharmaceuticals, automotive, etc.

If you put all of your money in high capacity semi-auto rifles and ammunition in 2013 when demand for these guns was at an all time high and 5.56 ammo was selling for nearly a buck a round... if you could find it... then you probably aren't going to recover your investment anytime soon. At least until the sheeple and the FUDDS are dumb enough to put anti-gun Liberal Left Democrats back in power.

Guess what? The country didn't elect a Republican House, Senate, and President because the country is turning Blue. If you wish to believe anti-Conservative CNN type propaganda and the same fake polls that said Trump never had a chance, then nothing I say will ever change your mind. Kalifornia gun owners seem pretty much content to get steam-rolled without ever fighting back. Many of them who post here seem to spend more time denigrating the NRA and pro-gun Republicans than they do fighting to reverse the slide of their state into anti-gun Socialism.

Those same stock market rules apply to doubles as an investment. Guns in general have lagged the stock market, and it appears that high end British Doubles just are not as hot as they were ten or fifteen years ago. However, many other doubles are selling for considerably more than they did ten or fifteen years ago... even in 12 gauge and in lower grades. Pick up a 10-15 year old copy of Gunlist, and even "Dick and Craig's" prices seem pretty reasonable. And if you seriously think that Gen-X'ers and younger people just aren't interested in guns anymore, check out the huge price appreciation of Colt "Snake Guns" and Winchester or Marlin leverguns.

Of course, you could be like Jagermeister, who doesn't own even one lousy double gun, and congratulate yourself when you are on your death bed, for waiting until you are too old and too sick to ever enjoy owning and hunting with one.

Nobody seems to worry about getting there money back on a vehicle after a lifetime of use.

You make no money in the stock market until you sell your stocks and pay your taxes. Most of the increases you are seeing is from large investors, not individual ones, like retirement funds and mutual funds or hedge funds. So if your retirement fund triples ten years before you retire, it does not mean you have anymore disposable income to use now, plus why you be spending that money on guns now instead of letting it continue to grow. It is the same problem with increasing land prices and better housing prices. You don't make any money until you sell. Been land poor for many years as they say.

So I am not surprised to see no direct relationship between rising stock prices and gun prices. just as I don't tie them to land or housing prices. What I do worry about is that baby boomers are aging fast and when they get out of the gun hobby there will be a glut of guns on the market, with fewer buyers interested in them, for many of the reasons others have mention above. Same thing for silver flatware, fine china, antiques of all kinds. The future market is not rosy for everything.

That would all be very nice except for one nagging little statistic.

The number of guns in the United States has increased by 50% since Hillary Clinton's husband was sexually molesting a young girl in the Oval Office.

Some of the buyers of these guns have been decrepit old farts. But very many have been purchased by young men and women. The oft predicted decline in the number of gun owners is as unrealistic as the dishonest polls that say over 80% of gun owners want the same sort of restrictions that is killing the sport in Kalifornia. Why do people keep falling for this crap?

That said, I'm glad that I didn't invest in high dollar 1970's muscle cars when English Doubles were very hot. Those who did might have made some money though, if they liquidated and took profits in 2015. The Haggerty Index for collector cars has been like a roller coaster since before the 2008 recession, and is plummeting to the bottom of the tracks right now. But market bottoms have always presented buying opportunities for those who are willing to take carefully calculated risks.

If a person's entire retirement fund is wiped out, that doesn't change their disposable income either. Their mindset, optimism and confidence in the future may be completely different. I think that's how discretionary funds are decided to be spent, consumer confidence. Particular tastes blow with the winds, but I do strongly suspect that most double gun fans started off on sporting firearms of some other configuration.

Craigd, I agree but people are missing the main point. For most people money invested it the stock market is not discretionary money but long term investment and retirement money like 401K which they can't get to spend without serious tax problems. It is not the little guy who has caused this market to go up but the big hedge funds and mutual funds. If it were the little guy there might be more people cashing in while the market is high. Of course there are always those who wont want to sell early trying to get every last cent of profit out of a bull market. Pigs get fat (make money) and hogs get slaughtered.

Here I found you a nice one. The values doubled in surprising short time. If I remember correctly famous guns scribe that used similar one hailed from same state as you and hunted in wetlands of Arkansas......
It fell from car bumper and famous nimrod was trying to get it back for long, long time.

9 pound plus 3" 32" 'Duckling' from Philadelphia Pa.....

The barrels made to blueprints of famous farm boy from Western NY. Better choice than 3" Model 21. Well to do American will still reach for "AA Black Card "to buy one. As American as apple pie. Alas the apple pies I eat are baked in Canada. Canadian apple pies are very, very good.

Dang, he did find a nice one...Geo

The barrels on that Fox make it clear that you cannot go by barrel convergence to determine whether they've been cut.

‘AA.........’

Alcoa?

How ‘bout a link to those pies...


__________________________
Lampin’
https://youtu.be/CZ3PoN4dMsE

None left! Canadians ate them all in celebration of the Flames pasting the Wings last night.

Finding and actually buying are two different things Jagermeister. I don't know why you waste your time providing links to guns that you will never buy. I don't click on your links anyway, because you have shown us that you are an internet troll who cannot be trusted. You have repeatedly lied to us about guns you claim to own and about your reloading and hunting activities. I hope you get the same satisfaction from tire-kicking, drooling, and lying that most of us here get from actually owning and shooting double guns.

You would rather have that Fox then a Model 21?

I know I would!

Thing of it is though, a Super Fox is so rare unlike a Winchester 21 or an Ithaca NID in that configuration, 12 gauge with 30 plus inch barrels with 3 inch chambers, I would be hard pressed to use it.

That is a nice Fox though.

Super Foxes were made to be used. With a little reasonable care you can kill ducks with one and not diminish the value of it one bit. And, even if you did put a little more wear on it and diminish it's monetary value some, is it not worth it? I think it is, and mine kills ducks every year.




Not hard pressed, SRH

The 12-gauge Super-Fox is not really rare, or even scarce, with 950 produced. On the other hand, the 87 magnum-framed, 12-gauge, 3-inch, Ithaca NIDs are pretty scarce. I have never seen the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet that there were far fewer 12-gauge Winchester Model 21 DUCKs or MAGNUMs than 12-gauge Super-Fox doubles.

Back to the stock market discussion, if you are not bored by now. Investors do not use their stock market appreciation to buy bird guns. Most of them have enormous taxable capital gains involved in selling stock. Most guns are bought with ready cash or an accumulation of paychecks.

It has to do with supply and demand. Something taught in Economics 101,

In today’s market the old coots with the nice doubles want to sell and, for the most part, the next generation couldn’t care.

Moreover, except for the Winchester Model 21, anyone buying a SxS has to assume that they will have trouble getting back the purchase price when they go to sell.

Well,

I'm in the boat with Shotgunlover on this. Show me the deals. I haven't begun to see them yet, but hopefully I'll live long enough (now that I'm done with motorcycles).

Maybe the stars will align at the Vegas show in a couple months, and all these low priced fine doubles I'm hearing about will be there. But .......... I ain't holding' my breath.

SRH

I'd have to disagree with the idea that Super Fox guns are not "rare, or even scarce." 950 guns is a very small number when you consider the desirability and number available to meet the demand. But they were a working gun, meant to be used for hunting. Taking a gun hunting doesn't automatically mean it should be abused, dropped, tossed in the bed of a pick-up, and left wet and dirty.

The 1963 Corvette split window coupe is considered rare. There were 10,594 examples produced. If I should ever be lucky enough to own an Optimus grade Lefever, there is no virtually doubt in my mind that I would shoot it and take it hunting. But if it was one of those days or one of those places where a slip and fall is more likely than not... I'd pick something else for that day.

"In today’s market the old coots with the nice doubles want to sell and, for the most part, the next generation couldn’t care."

The younger fellows prefer to shoot O/U's and semi-auto's -- both with choke tubes. They see no attraction in old SxS's, Browning A5's, or pump guns such as Winchester Model 12's or Ithaca 37's.

As mentioned earlier above, many/most of the millenium's have no interest is shooting or hunting. My grown kids fall into this category -- and want none of my guns. They said "sell them all Dad, and put the proceeds into the grandkids' college funds." And I'm doing so....

Most of us "GEEZERS" grew up coveting a Fox or Parker, an engraved Superposed, or A5, etc. Now we are retiring, dying off, going to the nursing home, etc. and are guns are being sold. The "Golden Age" of SxS's is now past. Sad, but true.

gold40,
Very good observation. I too have sold off all most of mine to keep the funds. I have however kept a few of my cherished doubles, and I intend to take them with me so to speak. I truly believe that there are some heavenly coverts in the next life.
Karl

My plan is to go out shooting. They'll never take me alive. Gil

He who dies with the most toys wins. If you make it to those 'heavenly coverts' but didn't die with some good guns to use, it just won't seem like Heaven at all...Geo

Geo.,
I'm taking 5 of my favorites.
Karl

A beautiful but very old 500 yo painting just sold for half a BILLION dollars. Who would have thought? Quality always has value just like this rare DaVinci. As time passes there will be less and less of these quality guns, many of which are artistry themselves. With a rising population, it will be about supply and demand, in my humble opinion. I guess I'm not as pessimistic as some of you other old guys ready for the skilled nursing and extended care facilities.

+1 Buzz. This statement deserves to be framed and hung on the wall.

Quality and craftsmanship never goes out of style. People who bought high and sell low will never get it.

If you plan to end up in an old folks home at 80 that's where you'll be. Optimism coupled with eating properly and continuing to work into old age will keep you here much longer. There's always the possibility of cancer taking you out, but that can happen at any age. As for me, I plan on staying away from motorcycles, and shooting a limit of doves on my 100th birthday ............... Oct. 13, 2051, with a 135 year old Fox..

SRH

To you guys with expertise, permit me to make a dumb comment: Do you all remember the book "Dispatches" by Micheal Herr from the Vietnam era? A Leftist magazine sent a correspondent to interview Herr in a hospital in Saigon to show once and for all "The futility of the romance of war". (the corespondent was a Brit coming out of the Brit anti-military tradition from WWI - read "The Wasteland" and compare it to Kipling to see how WWI changed Britain). Herr raised himself up on an elbow and said, "Romance? Have you ever seen the effect of an armored brigade with full force going into an assault? And that's not romance?" (paraphrased).

Well you all know I'm not a collector or dealer and have a few sxs's to give as shooters. But I hope I have passed on to sons and their wives the romance of shooting a sxs. And that trumps black guns everywhere.

Argo,
I enjoy the romance of SxS's by attending vintage shoots and hunting beautiful birds with them. If I really can't take my 5 favorites with me, my son will be sure to enjoy using them in memory of his dad. I'm 70 and in reasonable health because of my actice life style, but one never really knows his expiration date.
Karl

Comparing fine art like paintings with international market devoid of special regulations is not good analogy for market pertaining to firearms. As I said when it comes to old guns one must choose wisely to have something that retains or increases in value. I have shown you one example of a gun that is a safe bet. Contrary to common belief the 12ga SxS market isn't "flat", stale or struggling but one must pick the right "needles out of the haystack". A haystack that is going to get bigger and bigger in foreseeable future.

Why should anyone even consider your advice Jagermeister? You don't own even one lousy double gun, and you were dumb enough to admit voting for the extreme anti-gunner Obama twice... proudly!

You claim to be looking for the right double, at the right price. But that charade has been going on so long that even an internet fake like you has to have a hard time believing it. By the time you actually find a gun that suits you, and has a give-away price tag that you can afford, you will be too old and decrepit to shoot it. Brilliant!

Sadly, and hopefully unlike guns, these beautiful old painting gain more value from who owned them rather than who painted them, or their subject matter.

On to double guns, I think most double guns are beautiful, even my old Winchester model 24 has a type of beauty, but perhaps I feel that way because she was my first!

I really don't own any collectible doubles, well maybe one, but every single one of them is precious to me, and hopefully some of them will be to my children, my oldest son seams to be smitten by the lore of the double gun, but the other two not so much, it seams like if you can't wash the blood off with a garden hose, and throw it in the back of the truck it's not a good gun.

A couple of years ago I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, turns out it was Mercury poisoning, but it has taken two years to recover, this year I have done more duck hunting than I have in a few years, and it feels so good to be out in the field with my new favorite sxs, I call her the "Magic stick", she is one of those guns that just points it's self, and never (almost) misses, most young shooters don't appreciate the feel and balance of a gun like that.

TM

You make perfect sense, Jager, if you're into markets, retailing, buying to make a profit, as grocers buying low and stocking shelves as their wares go out the door.

Choosing wisely to "retain or increase value" would take the fun out of guns for me if the primary value you express of buying old guns is to make money.

As an old man of winter, the value of my guns is the pleasure they give me; even from the glance I give all of them as I choose the lightest "best" for the role.

It's been the SKB 20 Kent TM every day this week for decoying ducks and geese. When it's gets serious, the others get their turns to please me equally.

You know more than a little about guns, Jager. Choose one that fits and you can shoot well. You can't lose. You're not living if you're not having fun.

(I enjoy reading your messages.)

good plan

“...these beautiful old paintings gain more value from who owned them...”

Wonder what I could get for my Black Velvet Elvis? I’d be loath to sell it though as it is the perfect counterpoint to my collection of beer cans.

Phoenix (worst team in the league) beat the Kwee-beckers at home. Made me feel good. Not half a billion good, but pretty good.


___________________________
Pies and cannoli and ravioli.

No mention effect of magnumitis on desirability and sales of older doubles. Without handloading, it's abuse to use majority of my American and European classics for my needs. I'm limited to 20 SKB and 12 Beretta 686 with TM and bismuth. Kent's catalogue says TM is "safe to use in nitro-proofed, high grade, fixed choke barrels" and bismuth "suitable for use in all shotguns including those with fixed choke barrels." They are superb loads but their pressures and velocities are unnecessary---generally.

Jager & King;
One thing of tremendous importance to remember, in order to make a profit on a gun, you have to "BUY" it first. Otherwise you cannot "SELL" it for a profit.

You raise a couple interesting points, Miller. None of the gunners I know buy guns thinking of profit. My guess neither do a majority here. Jagermeister professing profit and pleasure equally while apparently not owning a double may be because he's not old enough to buy one. He's a mystery to me. He appears to read a lot about guns and is perhaps mature beyond his years for the way he blithely ignores his critics. That's worth noting, too, and I admire him for it.

That is rich! It appears that King is blithely ignoring truth and reality once again in order to create a false narrative concerning one of his fellow Liberal Left anti-gunner supporters.

Why attempt to make the silly and disingenuous excuse that Jagermeister may be too young to own or purchase firearms? We all know that Jagermeister is at least voting age since he repeatedly admitted to proudly voting for the anti-gunner Barrack Obama...twice! And Jagermeister has also repeatedly told us about guns he claims to own, and other guns he had had on Layaway... before reneging on the deals. Then there was this proof from Jagermeister that he is certainly old enough to purchase firearms. Being mentally fit to purchase guns is another story entirely:



And the statement about Jagermeister demonstrating maturity by "blithely ignoring his critics" is as laughable as it is inaccurate.

I've been quite critical of Jagermeister recently, ever since I noticed glaring inconsistencies in his stories about guns he claims to own or buy, his blatant lies about reloading, and the fact that a guy who doesn't own one lousy double gives so much advice about them. Far from ignoring me, Jagermeister responds directly more often than not, and he frequently takes the time to QUOTE my criticism. The only thing he ignores is the simple question... "Why does a guy who doesn't own even one lousy double feel the pathetic need to post regurgitated crap on a double gun forum about things he has no actual experience with???"

Is it any wonder that our PRO-GUN President Donald Trump has such low regard for journalists? Talk about Fake News!

There's several reasons for that.

Here's one...as more and more people delve into vintage guns they become more educated to their faults and flaws.

You should replace word "recently" with "permanently". There are no glaring inconsistencies. We both know your attacks started on misfires and are continuing here.

Must admit I had not considered the role education plays in driving the price of double guns down

I have believed that education usually feed the passion and demand for them, but as you note it also makes buyers more discerning.

Ultimately, while you maybe right that it is a factor, I doubt it is as dominant as the demographics are changing along with reduced hunting opportunities.

If it were driven more by aged guns and their flaws then new manufactured gun sales would not be as they are.

you think its tough now......wait till the market tanks.....

Stan's comments about living well and long parallel my thoughts and actions. At 72, I recently moved to a much larger house and three times the property of the place I vacated after 44 years. I continue to look for and buy expensive double guns that I know I will never have time to sell. I presently have three great guns in the mail, plan to buy a few more, and have no plans for a retirement home. I am also planning for a long life by recently selling my Harley Davidson that I have owned for 37 years. It is in the hands of a friend now, and it will never kill me. Dead is surely dead, but my friend Stan and I are not there yet. Bill Murphy in MD.

Bill, what are the three guns you have in the mail?

Jagermeister, you just can't stop telling lies, can you? Here are a couple "glaring inconsistencies" about guns you have claimed to own when they were actually on Layaway until you reneged on the deal, and about your reloading activities. I'll post some more when I get time, but I have a lot to get done before I go deer hunting:



You told us several times about your Remington Police Magnum 870 pump, you even told us how effective the recoil pad was. But it turns out that you never actually took possession of it:

Post #476286 3/27/17

If one pays attention, it's pretty easy to see there are many inconsistencies in your stories. It is much easier to remember the truth than it is to remember lies.

Here's a couple more of your lies, this time about reloading shotshells:

Post # 472881 on 2/22/17- Thread :" 16 ga loads not filling the hull?"--

Post #475337 on 3/17/17- Thread: "Reloading Herter's 16 Gauge Shells from Cabela's"--

I've once again proven what I said Jagermeister. I've done the same many times in the past, yet you return to deny your own lying words again and again. A gentleman would apologize, but you are no gentleman. A normal person would be embarrassed about getting caught lying so many times. But you are not normal. I have no doubt you will be back with more lies and more bullshit. Why would you and your Liberal Left lying friends think you should be able to run away from the dishonesty and anti-gun rhetoric you posted in Misfires? You guys forced me to save it and repeat it because you tried to cover your lies by accusing me of ignorance or dishonesty.

That's not nice! And it sure as hell ain't good manners.

I'm out In Africa for a little while, yet again, 73 years old, and look with dismay on the wreckage of a very professional double-gun site. Please stop the BS.
-- There are trolls here who delight in provoking...it's their morning high-their coffee. And no one really knows what guns they've bought, sold whatever...the only clues anyone has are the insights they provide on the subject matter at hand.
-- And there are the bulls who respond to the red cape foaming at the mouth with repetitive fulminations and who are as destructive as the trolls with endless rantings that only feed the former.

I know this is the internet and probably modern America - but for the love of God, grow the F-up and stop it. We know when a dispute over double-guns is informative (I loved the exchange between Ted and Larry on a possible "R" powder in late 19th century French Guns) and when it's just personal "look-at-me" claptrap.

I guess posting this was just as useless as any internet plea.... but if there is stupid on one side there will be the mirror effect on the other. Oh well. get to it..enjoy. Nothing else to do...or you could be out shooting.

Or I guess I could just block a ranter...but then I might miss the one thing he says in 50 posts which is informative and not personal or political. - unless of course the troll and the bull are the same person - it's happened before.

Good for you, my friend. Live long and live well. Hope to see you at the Spring Southern next April. I'll have a "box" for you and the lovely Ms. Linda. I think you know what it will contain.

BTW, I'm thinking of having a T-shirt made up that says on the back......

FORMER BIKER

SONS OF ARTHRITIS

IBUPROFEN CHAPTER

........and a skull with crossed connecting rods and pistons behind it. If I do I'll have you one made if you like.

All my best, SRH

Bill, I live close to you...I'd love to see your collection someday. I'm neither a collector nor a big hunter..I shoot clays mostly....but love art ..and opera....and a slim line double is both.

1966, Fort Bragg, 1965 Triumph Bonneville..check out the single shoe front brakes, the kick starter, the right foot shift..and the cool Corcarhan jump boots along with the 3rd Special Forces Group Flash on the beret and the chapel. I sold my tourer Honda Goldwing back in the late 1990's. My wife and I were ready to buy another about 2010 when the IRS nailed us for an extra $20,000 in taxes that year. It's time to stick to the Jeep.

Nice pic, Argo. You said "It's time to stick to the Jeep". I agree wholeheartedly. After my "slide for life" 33 days ago I don't want anything under me that doesn't have a wheel on all four corners. My '87 Wrangler ............. 350 Chevy small block w/ Edelbrock intake and carb, and TH350 Chevy tranny. Just a hunting rig mostly, but with the power it's got, and an effective rear wheel ratio of 4.55, it's fun on dirt roads. I've since put 11.00 tires on it. They work PDG.





SRH

Hey Bill,

I'm with you. I'm staying in to the bitter end. To give up now would be like lying on railroad tracks in front of a train. This is what keeps me alive and makes me wake up in the morning. I hope my last purchase is delivered the day of my funeral.

Roscoe (Curl)

Argo, that is a great picture. My Fort Bragg experience was in 1967 and 1968. Stan and Capt. Curl are two of my favorite gun guys, real men who hunt, shoot, and spend money on good guns. I will comment on the "guns in the mail" when they arrive. My friend Roscoe will be happy to know that all three are rifles.

If you block the meatheads you will absolutely miss nothing other than the ill feelings they inspire. Probably not JMO

I'm pretty sure that you can trust me on this one

The board is inspirational for the way it handles dedicated troublemakers, making it what Dave and members intended it to be, not a place for axes to grind.

If that is true, how come you are still here....
Oh, I guess Keith keeps it real.
PS - Seen Mr Cohen?

[quote=King Brown]The board is inspirational for the way it handles dedicated troublemakers]

My 1986 CJ-7 bought used in New Delhi in 1988, driven up to Lahore, Pakistan and back to India, and kept for 26 years. Driven all over India, the Balkans (in Greece), on the beach at Marathon and over Mt. Pendeli, and Italy-up the Dalmatian Coast shortly after the end of the Serb-Croat wars. Still was a daily driver in 2014 but didn't feel like I could spend the time restoring it and fighting some rust issues so sold it to an ex-Marine with kids who would raise them right.

The French girl, who came out to the Congo in 1980, pictured along an irrigation canal in Uttar Pradesh in India, where we shot ducks, is still the same and still speaks beautiful French. The jeep was kept stone-cold-stock...as was wife. You can't do better than to raise a family with a Jeep and a William Evans 20 gauge double (her gun) (posted before but the photo was hijacked by photoshop) (and I admit as I did in the EM Reilly line that I shot an 870 until I ran across that Damascus barreled Reilly hammer double gun that satisfied an itch...sorry - I apologize).



(1950's advertising philosophy - pack the ad with honeys and they will respond)

We won't hold the 870 indiscretion against you, Argo. I just took possession of the first pumpgun of my life today, and I've shot doubles since 1959.

BTW, how do you not keep a wife "stock"?

SRH

Perfume. If she changed from Terry Mugler "Angel" It would not be the same. Ducks like "Angel" too..

Thanks, I need to remember that.(?)

SRH

OMG Stan..please don't. Perfumes are skin PH sensitive and change according to the body. About 6 years ago I took a footlocker full of womens' perfumes to Afghanistan to give as gifts to Afghan officers for their wives...I told them it was for women...you know..women.!!. The stench of multiple skin detonated women's perfumes on men's bodies the next day in the training room was...how do you say....overwhelming.

I know. My beautiful wife's chemistry reacts perfectly with a perfume I picked out for her many years ago named Tuscany. Other women ............ aaaaaahh, not so much.

SRH

The world cries out for 'eau de la Federal paper'.

How about classic cold weather special made prior to World War II? It could serve well if gloves need to be worn on cold Michigan day. A 12ga twenty eight inch barrels MOD/IMPMOD, DTs 70mm chambers well suited to American 1&1/16oz and 1&1/4oz loads. We could call it late season wild pheasant special. Buyer will have to pay the $1650 asking price plus expenses because guns designed by famous Mormon farmer gun designer warrant a good price. A gun with very KOOL feature. Kool is good when it comes to selling gun at future time. Pics are dark but it looks like it's in real good shape. If the butt plate bothers you replacements are available. I'm not going to make it easy for you. Please see Schwardt Classic Arms site. Can you find the gun? It isn't going to last long.

PS. If you remember our now sadly gone friend from St.Peterbung Geno that was among his favorite if not the favorite shotgun. His gun had one trigger this one has two "single triggers".