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Posted By: chopperlump Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 09:59 AM
I have a very early (1939?) Utica Savage Fox Model B in 20 ga. with 28" tubes choked IC/Mod. Apparently these early guns could be choked as requested. Mine also has a serial number on the flats of the breech, assembly marks by workman, well-struck barrels without a lump or dip. Rib is plain, straight, brazed, water-tight. Double triggers (plated nicely), well-done if plain checkering on black walnut stocks, pistol grip uncapped butt and splinter forend. Gun weighs 6 lbs. 6 oz. and is handy, a good pointer unlike later clubs by Stevens and Savage when they started fooling with tree-sized BT forends and bogus stamped vent ribs secured by Phillips head screws. I rust blued the tubes as someone had cold blued them years ago, polished the frame to a nice coin finish, and am totally happy with a gun I just traded for $260 bucks. I know the old vintage hardware store guns aren't in the same league as the fancier names but there is a certain pleasure in owning these oldies. I also have several early Stevens 520 20 ga. pumps made for Wards and Sears that display a level of workmanship way beyond that found on contemporary guns. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Thanks for your time and attention. Chopperlump
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 12:05 PM
Chopper;
Yes, I have a few thoughts. Those older Savage Foxes as you say are a total cut above the later trashy ones. You are fortunate indeed to have acquired such a gun at that price in a 20ga. I have extremely fond memories of an even earlier (pre WWI) J Stevens 12ga which I foolishly traded off many years ago, was the first shotgun I personally owned. Most of the Pre WWII Savage/Stevens guns I have seen were all reasonably well built & gave a lot of folks a very good value for the price. That 520 pump as I recall was a Browning design & had several worthwhile features, a person owning a good one need not feel envious of someone with one of the "Better" pumps.
Posted By: limapapa Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 01:36 PM
Ditto on a Ranger 12 ga. side by side in 98% condition including case colors I picked up on consignment at a local shop for $250. The 1933 Sears catalog shows this gun for $18.45, a Fox Sterlingworth for $36.50, and a Winchester Model 12 for $44.25. Hardware store guns all!
Posted By: Researcher Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 02:02 PM
At the Nimrod last weekend, Don Hardin displayed a Krupp barrel 16-gauge J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. No. 375 that had seen quite a bit of service, and Ron Hunter displayed a minty mid-grade Meriden, then took it out and shot it in the Nimrod Classic.
Posted By: Fin2Feather Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 02:32 PM
I've got three pre-'49 Stevens 5100's: .410, 20ga and 16ga. The .410 owns up to being a Stevens; the 20 is a Ranger and the 16 is a Springfield, but all are stamped 5100. All have twin ivory beads, real (albeit crude) checkering on real (tho plain) walnut, and the 20 and 16 have factory Jostam-type pads. Lots better guns than the later Steven offerings, IMO. They've been good to me; the 16 was my go-to for years. It and the 20 are more rainy day guns now, but I've never been ashamed of my hardware store doubles.

Chopper, it would be neat to see some pix of your Model B; I had a chance to buy an early 20 and .410 "pair" once but I was cash poor at the time; I have always wished I could have bought them!

Fin
Posted By: riverman Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 02:52 PM
Hello the Camp,

This is my first post here. In fact I just discovered this site, yestereday but I already love it.

Anyway, I too have an old Stevens 16 ga. I know it is pre-war but I'm not sure which war. It is definetly not one of the newer ones that resemble a model A car axel more than a nice S X S shotgun. It is marked J Stevens but I can find no model number on it. I would love to know more about it but I don't know where to start.

Thanks,

Chris
Posted By: dubbletrubble Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 04:03 PM
I'll take all the Crescents I can find.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 04:20 PM
Ranger doubles, as we've discussed previously, weren't all Stevens. I've seen several Ranger-marked Hunter Fultons, and I think someone here may have indicated that Lefever Nitros were also sold as Rangers, although I've never seen one of those.

With Stevens and Fox B's, the older the better--for sure.
Posted By: chopperlump Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 05:20 PM
Lads, I will post photos of the early Model B when my daughter visits on Sunday. I also have a Lefever Nitro Special 20 ga from 1926 that is marked Wester Field - MW & Co. Paid $275, shimmed the hook, shoot 7/8 oz. through its 28" M&F tubes and have killed as many doves and club pheasants as I ever did in the old days of the 12 ga. obcession. Thanks for your support. Chops
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 05:25 PM
Here's a Hunter Arms Fulton/Ranger for Sears



and a Fulton Gladiator for Sears 1917-1919

Posted By: L. Brown Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 06:03 PM
What the heck's a Fulton Gladiator? That's a new one on me.
Posted By: Chuck H Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 06:13 PM
Maybe a Sears label?
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 07:00 PM
Gladiator was the trade name of Albert Aubrey on shotguns made for Sears, Roebuck and Company. Sears also sold "US Gun Co Gladiator" single shot shotguns with external hammers manufactured by Meriden Fire Arms Co, 1905-1915.
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 07:37 PM
Larry and all, there was a Sears Gladiator Ideal, which was a steel barreled hammer gun retailed by Sears from Hunter Arms. I think, without looking, that Brophy said there was only one, or was there a few ? I had one that I sold to a friend, but do wish I had the same merchandise today. It was engraved between the Ideal and the next grade up. Daryl
Posted By: treblig1958 Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 08:08 PM
Welcome to the Board Riverman!!!!
All the best
Posted By: L. Brown Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 10:20 PM
Daryl, that must've been a rare piece for sure!

Aubrey . . . I haven't seen that many, but all the Aubreys I've seen have been sidelocks. Any of the rest of you familiar with Aubrey boxlocks, like the one in the photo?
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 10:25 PM
Chris;
My old J Stevens had cocking cams which protruded through the knuckle joint & were opperated by the fore-end iron. The frame was totally square with no sculpting at forward end of the bar. It was actually marked J Stevens Arms & Tool Co. It was either a model 325 or 335 but can't recall which now.
Posted By: chopperlump Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/24/07 11:00 PM
In my youth (50 years ago) I bought a Fulton marked "Ranger" in 16 gauge for 35 bucks at Klein's Sporting Goods in Elmwood Park, Il. The gun was almost 100% but I was too stupid to think that a Sears Roebuck gun could be anything worth owning. In those days it never occurred to me that all their Store Brand guns were made by reputable American Arms Companies. I sold the gun a few weeks later for $30 and considered myself lucky to have only lost $5. Gads, I wonder who has that sweet little 16 gauge now. Oh, yeah --- in those days we mostly thought the 16 would soon be obsolete. Hah! Your grandchildren's granchildren will still be shooting 16's --- one of the greatest ideas ever hatched. I love em, they'll do most anything the standard 12 will and carry lots easier in the field. Chopper
Posted By: M D Christian Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/25/07 11:32 AM
Larry; There was aso a Fulton Gladiator, An engraved boxlock, just like the Fulton, only marked Gladiator, The came in 2 or 3 Grades, I've only seen 1 in the flesh, but there was one for sale on the auctions a while back.. MDC
Posted By: postoak Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/25/07 03:21 PM
I'll suggest that the early 20th Century Hopkins & Allens be added to the list also.
Posted By: David Williamson Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/25/07 03:54 PM
In 1917-1918, World War 1, Hunter Arms Co. was making flrearms for Sears and some under the Gladiator name. Most were a variation of the Fulton Gun, some were the L.C. Smith Hammer Gun with special engravings and markings. The Sears statement says "Through a special contract from a widely known Eastern firm for firearms we offer a line of high grade shotguns at remarkably low prices. etc,etc."
All barrels were high grade carbon steel having a tensile strength of 85 to 95,000 psi.
The Gladiator (engraved Fulton )12 or 16 ga $24.60 (1917).

Records indicate that there were 233 Gladiator Field, 66 Gladiator-Diamond, and 66 Gladiator-Tournament in Hammerless (Fulton model).
Hammer (L.C.Smith) Gladiator Field 173, Gladiator Ideal 1.

Daryl, I would say that was a rare gun you got rid of, since there was only 1 made.
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/25/07 03:58 PM
MD and Larry-I got those pics of the Fulton Gladiator and Ranger from an auction site.
Posted By: M D Christian Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/25/07 04:59 PM
Rev: There's a nice 12 bore Ranger by Nunter on there now .. Almost mint, unless I'm missing something.. MDC
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/25/07 05:05 PM
MD-The pic is one p. 1
Posted By: james-l Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/25/07 07:22 PM
here is something a little different in a Fulton 16ga

http://www.auctionarms.com/Search/DisplayItem.cfm?ItemNum=8008642
Posted By: Researcher Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/25/07 11:15 PM
There is a gun that looks for all the world like a Fulton pictured in the 1912 SD&G catalogue and called their Manhatten Arms Co. gun. The "Books" say the Fulton with a half-pistol grip was introduced in 1915 and the Fulton Special with a bit of engraving and a capped pistol grip was introduced in 1916. I wonder if Hunter Arms Co. was making these economy boxlocks under contract for SD&G for a few years before they brought them out with their own name?

The Fultons had a wedge bolt while the later The Hunter Special had the rotary bolt of the classic L.C. Smith.

In the 1929 Stoeger Catalogue there were two grades of The Fulton -- The Fulton for $29.00 and The Fulton Special for $35.00 with a little bit of engraving, a capped full pistol grip, and checkered stock cheeks. Both were wedge bolted and offered in 12-, 16-, and 20-gauges. By the 1932 Stoeger Catalogue the price had dropped to $22.55 and $28.35 respectively. By the 1934 Stoeger Catalogue the Fulton was down to $21.85 and the Fulton Special was no longer listed.

In the 1939 Stoeger Catalogue The Fulton was $25 and $31.60 with a non-selective Hunter single trigger. The Hunter Special was $30.75 and $37.35 with a non-selective Hunter single trigger. Both offered in 12-, 16-, and 20-gauges.

By the 1941 Stoeger the prices were up for The Fultons to $29.95 and $36.70 while The Hunter Specials were $35.10 and $41.75. In the 1948 Stoeger Catalogue only The Fulton is listed at $75.70.

While Stoeger never seems to have picked up on it, by about 1940 these guns were also being offered in .410-bore.
Posted By: Roy Eckrose Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/26/07 03:17 AM
Rev:

"and a Fulton Gladiator for Sears 1917-1919"

That's sure an interesting one!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/26/07 02:46 PM
I have a Henry 12 ga hammer double of the hardware store variety. Shot little if at all. Locks have three moving parts. Must have retailed for about $3. Henry Co. was in St. Paul, MN I believe.
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/26/07 03:05 PM
Here's one from a St. Joe, Mo. , Co. It's a 20 ga.

Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/26/07 03:08 PM
Yes, it was rare and quite nice. Also sold the sam fellow an A Grade Smith hammer gun. I think it is in the new Smith Book. Two guns I wish I still had.
Posted By: Chuck H Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/26/07 05:47 PM
That Wyco Hammerless looks suspiciously like a Crescent.
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/26/07 06:01 PM
Chuck, yes, full blown hardware store gun, for sure. If you could have been there, you could have had the same gun, named "Chuck's Short Range Wonder", but maybe that wouldn't sell too well. You choose.
Posted By: Dave Katt Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/26/07 06:02 PM
Daryl, that has to be a Crescent doesn't it, made for the Wyeth Hardware Co.? I had one that looked just like that in 20ga., that I sold to me Dad. It was marked though "America Gun Co."
Posted By: Chuck H Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/26/07 06:20 PM
The fitter at Crescent that put that gun together must have been aspiring to work at Parker. Note the screw slot alignment.
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/26/07 06:55 PM
Chuck, maybe the gun just hasn't been shot so the screws didn't rattle loose. I was sort of hoping you weren't satisfied with "Chuck's Short Range Wonder".
Posted By: Chuck H Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/26/07 07:03 PM
Daryl,
I was thinking more along the lines of "Chuck's Chukar Chomper"
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/26/07 07:34 PM
Well, being from the midwest, Chuck, I don't think those buyers,in that period, and maybe they were the premo Crescent buyers, really knew about a bird like that. I think back then, and times have surely changed , chukkar was something you did out the car window with , well, whatever. Actually, I had thought of the screws being well aligned when I took the picture. It's odd, but lots of times, even on the finest of guns, we allow photos of untimed screws. I got a gun , a Daly Diamond Grade, back from a well known gunsmith, actually it took three trys for him to do the job, and each time the screws were not indexed properly. It said "loads" about the gunsmith and I never went back.
Posted By: Chuck H Re: Vintage Hardware Store guns - 05/27/07 06:00 AM
Yeah, I suppose you're right. Chukar didn't get imported to Calif until 1933 or there abouts.
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