I posted an image of this gun in the leg of mutton thread and had a compliment by PM from 67galaxie. Thought I would elaborate on this elegant round body gun and interested if anyone has any additional info on this maker. Have read in that the late 19th century there were as many as 600 independent gun makers in Birmingham at any given time so there must be a lot of lost history. Quite fond of this one and very enjoyable both to carry and to shoot. 2 3/4 chambers and seems never to have been messed with. Left barrel is marked "choke"
the water table:
That Birmingham view mark seems to be this:
and think that places it as pre 1904.
Here's a high grade 20 ga. sold by James Julia:
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-3267-e-roberts-hammer-damascus-double-barrel-shotgun-59867/
It's proofed for 1 1/4 oz loads; I would imagine the chambers are 2 3/4". Very nice.
Your gun went through the Proof House in the 1896 to 1904 period.
I have an E Roberts single barrel 20 bore listed at 141, Steelhouse Lane. Brown's Birmingham Gunmakers has an Edgar Roberts list there from 1903 to 1923 and at 5, Steelhouse Lane from 1897 to 1901 so that will narrow the date of your gun. It will have most likely have been retailed and/or finished by Roberts rather than made by him. The style of the gun is fairly generic for the Birmingham trade around that time. Looks like a good solid useable gun. Lagopus.....
Love the fiddleback on the stock. I am guessing with the heavier proof it was made to a 7 lb.+ weight, perhaps a wildfowler with long barrels? Looks like it could put up a fight on a pheasant stand.
Love the fiddleback on the stock. I am guessing with the heavier proof it was made to a 7 lb.+ weight, perhaps a wildfowler with long barrels? Looks like it could put up a fight on a pheasant stand.
Well, just under 7 @ 6 lbs, 15 oz. 30" bbls. Yes, pheasant would be the ideal fare for this. More likely will have my first hunt with it on snipe. To date have been shooting 5-stand mixed with a little skeet using 7000ish psi 700x 1oz reloads. Like everyone says, 'she does her job when I do mine'. My downfall on doubles is lifting my head to see whether the first one broke. Find that less of an issue with internal hammers/tumblers.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. A week at the lake coming up and for me vacation means unplugging. (so the OP hasn't bailed, just temporarily incommunicado)
Records show the following information on Edgar Roberts.
5 Steelhouse lane 1897
22 Weaman Street and 141 Steelhouse Lane C1900
Rear of 22 Bath Street 1930
1940 Not Listed
Sold cartridges under the names, The Reliance and The Forward.
The cases are marked, E Roberts Practical gun maker.
Thanks to Lagopus and Roy H I learned the DOM within narrow time window (1897 to 1900). Previous internet research did not even find first name Edgar.
Indirectly related, what is your highest recommendation for resource book covering Birmingham trade during the golden age?
This is what IGC has on the firm, just a couple more facts to add to Roy's post:
Given Names
First name/s: Joseph Thomas
Surname: Roberts
First Address: Back of 39 Lower Loveday Street
City/Town: Birmingham
Other Addresses:
Back of 26 Weaman Street
Back of 26 Weaman Street & 5 Steelhouse Lane
22 Weaman Street & 5 Steelhouse Lane
22 Weaman Street & 141 Steelhouse Lane
22 Weaman Street
22b Bath Street
Trade: Gunmaker
Dates: 1871-1936?
Notes:
Joseph Thomas Roberts probably established his business in 1871, but it was first recorded in 1873 at Back of 39 Lower Loveday Street, Birmingham. In 1884 he moved to Back of 26 Weaman Street, he had additional premises at 5 Steelhouse Lane. In about 1901 he moved to 22 Weaman Street which appear to have been his workshops, but kept the 5 Steelhouse Lane premises which appear to have been his offices and showroom.
Joseph Roberts retired or died in about 1902 and his son Edgar was recorded at 22 Weaman Street and 141 Steelhouse Lane from 1903 to 1923, and at 22 Weaman Street only in 1924. At some time between 1925 and 1928 Edgar moved to 22b Bath Street where he traded up to about 1936.
Other:
As Edgar Roberts, the firm sold cartridges under the names the "Forward" (post 1900) and the "Reliance".
Two books to look out for. 'Birmingham Gunmakers by Doug Tate, published by Safari Press, and 'The Birmingham Gun Trade' by David Williams, published by The History Press.
Tim
Additional reading:
English Gunmakers, "The Birmingham and provincial trade in the 18th and 19th centuries". By De Witt Bailey & Douglas A Nie. [This is a fact book not a picture book].
History of the Birmingham Proof House by Clive Harris.
The books ,The House of Churchill, by Don Masters and The Greener story ,by Graham Greener, both provide insight into the workings of the Birmingham gun trade.
The book The Birmingham Gun Makers, mentioned by TRW; contains an excellent map of the Birmingham gun quarter as it existed 1946-1950, This book contains a picture of W.W. Greener,s head office on St Mary,s Row, Birmingham, which unfortunately is incorrectly labeled as Greener,s London Offices!