I must attempt to make amends for what has become my sometimes rude and callous manner of posting. I have realized this because I have been made aware that I have alienated a longtime forum friend on here. He, very graciously, private messaged me, and in a very gentlemanly way, caused me to do some self evaluation. I realized that I had responded to a post of his in a sarcastic and caustic manner.

I make no excuses, and apologize not only to him, but to all my friends on here to which I have become less than considerate. I especially thank him for being man enough to point out my indiscretions in such a way as to cause me to take a good look at myself. I am grateful for that.

The very things I have disdained in a few here, I had carelessly become. That is hypocritical on my part, and I will work to correct such behavior in the future. I am grateful for the many friends I have here, and hope to restore your confidence by becoming more like what I admire in so many of you.

All my best, SRH

We don't want to hear it. Its too late for apologies and we know that you're nothing but a grumpy old curmudgeon.

Just like the rest of us.

Stan,
I'm glad you are here. I bet a lot of us could stand to do some of the same. I'll work on it, on my end. I thank you for the reminder, which, it really is, since none of us is perfect.

Hope this year's crop is a good one for you. You know, every year I age a little more, and find myself looking forwrd to the fall season with ever more anticipation.

Do treasure every, single, one. How many of them do all of us really have?


Best,
Ted

eYe luv you teddy bOy....

Stan, this right here is why you are a valued member here.

James

stan, et al: i could take offense at some of what you have posted here, but i do not...this forum for me is a source of doublegun information, but also it is a source of entertainment...stan, you sound like a sincere, self reflective individual...that is good...thing is, try not to take what is posted here seriously...fact is, for the most part we dont know who or what we are communicating with here...so keep it light and positive...and most of all, be happy!

Stan, I took a quick look at all of your posts that you made over the last several days, and saw nothing that should have elicited an overly emotional response from any man who isn't overly sensitive himself. I did note however, that you most graciously shared your thoughts and techniques to help others become better at shooting clays. Maybe your great sin against humanity came earlier, but somehow, I doubt it.

You did admonish the gunsmithing methods and trolling of our resident anti-gunner Ed Good a couple times. But then, I seriously doubt if Ed PM'd you to say you hurt his feelings. More likely, you made him happy that someone paid attention to him and his trolling.

You've given me a few curt replies over the years when I said something that you disagreed with. Somehow, I survived without having an emotional breakdown. What this place really needs is free tissues and a cry room. If some of the whiners and crybabies we have here worked with the guys I work with, they would either quickly grow some balls, or spend their days quivering in the fetal position. But I'll have to ask Miss Manners, our Thread Moderator, what she thinks.

I think treblig1958 made an excellent response to your apology.

resident anti gunner? gee keet, i thought that title was held by king...speaking of which, haven't heard from him here in awhile...

anyway, i must decline this new title, as i really dont feel up to the task...

oh, and one more thing, as to my gunsmithing methods...i do no gun work of any kind...

Very gracious. I think we all can use a little periodic introspection as far as how we react emotionally. Strong topics ellicit strong emotions, but fortunately our great country allows the freedom to respond as we see fit. But, as true Americans who actually value the concepts of Freedom and Equality, we should always keep in mind Common Courtesy and a respect for other's views, no matter how much we may disagree with them.

Regards
Ken

Oh Ed, King isn't an anti-gunner. Just ask him. He has denied it hundreds of times... despite having his own anti-gun, anti-NRA, anti 2nd Amendment words and blind allegiance for anti-gun politicians replayed for him over and over.

Come to think of it, that's the same sort of trolling dishonesty you display here on a regular basis. Here's a little reminder for your senile and dishonest little brain:



By the way Ed, I have also noted that your denial about doing any gun work is also a falsehood. You did tell us that you took a gunsmithing course, and you did tell us that you built some muzzleloaders. I think that counts as gun work, unless you were doing like Jagermeister and telling us lies, so cut the crap already.

My opinions of you two are based solely upon your own unedited words Ed.

keet: out of respect for stan, i will not continue to respond to your off topic posts here.

If you had any respect for Stan, you'd go and hang yourself from the water pipes in your cellar. Stan has scraped better things than you off the soles of his boots when working around farm animals.

It's the Lord's day.
Bro. Stan believes the Bible.
Maybe he was reading Matthew 5:23 and wanted to make things right.
I respect that he has the compunction (a good Puritan word), and cojones to do that.

Matthew 5:23-24New International Version (NIV)

23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

dr drew: does Matthew 5:23-24 work both ways?

meaning that if you are offering your gift at the alter and there remember that YOU have something against your brother or sister, do you first go and seek reconciliation, or not?

My gift to Ed Good and King Brown is simply the TRUTH... in their own words.

They have repeatedly rejected my gift to them. They have used the cover of faux civility in a vain attempt to continue their deceptions. They have repeatedly denied their own words and actions. And as of late, they have Gladys Kravitz, I mean old colonel, to defend them.

That's gratitude for you! Anyone got a spare tissue that isn't already water-logged?

Please stop Ed. The boundary line of grace is where falsehoods, manipulation and enabling sin starts.

BTW: If you are hiding, you might ask Google Maps to removed the address and map to your "antique appraisal service".

well drew, you too are going off topic here...so out of respect for stan, i will not respond to your off topic posts here either.

Lol...ken, I guess Keith didn't read any of your posts. There is a problem on the forum...and he is one of the biggest. As you can read, he just can not resist the temptation to slag others.

Sad really, particularly in a thread where you and others are asking the opposite.

So I guess this thread will now turn into another pissing match. Thanks Keith.

I can not quote from the bible but I do know when a good person has the balls to say sorry.
A very 'English' apology and a pleasure to read.

It's not that hard to temporarily "lose it" here, especially if something hits you wrong on a bad day. We all do it. Thanks for the reminder, Stan. We can all work on holding to a higher standard of behavior than is often evidenced on the Net.

Stan, I hope you're having a nice Sunday. It would be selfish of me to make a judgement about your business, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if a friend could approach you and work something out.

Stan, you act as the gentleman you are, and are a credit to this board.

I hope we all, to include myself, can strive live up to your example.

The friend that I offended and I have already worked it out. He is very gracious. Grace is something I understand, as I have had a great need for it.

Thanks to all for the best wishes and encouragement. You're a good bunch of guys. My best wishes to you all.

All the best, SRH

You've never been anything but a gentleman in my dealings and conversations with you, Stan. My only "issue with you" is that fate wasn't kind enough for our paths to have crossed at the Southern. Hopefully we'll remedy that soon.

I agree. Stan is nothing other than top notch. Always interesting posts and...who doesn't get a bit wired at times?

My friend, Stan Hillis, is merely trying to transfer the title of Chief Curmudgeon from me to him. It isn't going to work, Stan. I will always be a few steps ahead of you in the Curmudgeon category. I have met and briefly broken bread with Stan, and consider him a master hunter and gun guy, no small compliment. Bill Murphy

Hey, fank yoU for saying that my IQ was <28 ...... ... .

You're alright, Jag. I'd say you're smarter than a dove but dumber than a crow. Right in the fat part of the bell curve.


__________________________
Hope les fellows from Kwee-beck are enjoying their golf.

Generally, there's no need for apologies here. This is a board of significant generosity of spirit and information. I learn something here from my daily visits regardless of my fatigue and managing the vagaries of a busy life.

Trolling is a petty annoyance, a pernicious form of enjoyment to make another miserable, ridicule from the anonymous to make others move off, a masculine deviance of superiority synonymous with writing on a toilet wall.

Misanthropes will always be with us. Members interested in doubles have moved the mean and mischievous to the margins. When they do appear, their threads sink quickly to the bottom from a lack of interest. No moderator needed.

Hi, King!

Interesting post. But on to more important matters. Someone needs to spear Crosby in the nuts and slash one of his fingers off. See how he likes it.

I'll grant you mischievous. It's my nature (youngest of 7) But mean? Harsh.


____________________________
I'm rootin' for whoever is playing Pittsburgh.

Well stated Dr Hause

Watched an interesting game last night. Stanly Cup finals, 1964 (I think) Leafs against the Red Wings. Bower and Sawchuck were in net, sans masks. My son was agog...Howe running roughshod over everyone (but in a losing effort) and not a helmet or face mask to be seen.

Jagermeister, have you considered the possibility that I was being generous in my assessment of your intelligence?

I mean, just how bright can you be to think you could just continue to post conflicting stories about the number and type of guns you own, and about your reloading activities, and so forth? Why not take it to the next level and tell us you were close personal friends with John F. Kennedy? Hopefully you will one day learn that it is much easier to recall the TRUTH than it is to maintain a web of lies.

But I seriously have my doubts. However, you can take comfort in the fact that your friend King Brown feels that someone who exposes abject dishonesty is misanthropic.

Dishonesty still ain't civility. So grab a tissue and maybe cling to one of your toy stuffed animals.

I love it!!!! Sid the Kid's third cup coming up shortly!!!

Spelled it right also, my hats off to ya. Pittsburgh is always spelled with an 'H'. Goes back to the French and Indian War.

I have added breaking bread and clays with Stan to my bucket list. Will have to make sure it is also the first day after the last day of August. :), or whenever the gray rockets are aloft in that bastion of Gentleman and Southern hospitality, also known as Georgia.

It gets old being around people who are never wrong. The old carpenter from the great state of Tennessee that I was an apprentice carpenter under said a couple things that have stayed with me: "If you ain't making mistakes, you ain't doin' any work." And, "Mike, the difference between an apprentice and a journeyman is that the journeyman knows how to fix his mistakes."

Hats off to Journeyman Stan

Mike McDaniel
Flower Mound, Texas

Hi Stan.

I don't know you, or if you act like you describe or not, but I am glad to read your message here. I have appreciated your experience with doubles. I believe that our less-than-wonderful-behavior can in fact help another avoid similar behaviors. I have found myself becoming impatient, with a constant general undercurrent of angry, grumpy, resentful, and so on. I don't want that to become me permanently.

Your post reminds me that we can come see ourselves (or be informed by others) in a way that is fresh and sometimes shocking, and from that turn towards something better. I need to do that. You being brave enough to post this helped someone, me, and I hope that helps you.

Take care.

No one likes to see a player trying to injure another but I wonder to what extent superstars Howe, Richard and Hull lashed out from continual pounding they received from the less skilful. Turning the other cheek in a rough game seems uncommonly human.

Stan's apology is analogous in that it brought out a generous outpouring of admiration for his coming to grips with what he considered inappropriate behaviour. Trolls are rightfully scorned on the other hand for making-up ridicule of valuable members of this board.

Vilification of old colonel is a perfect example of a troll at work: misogynous, gender-casting him as a whining silly woman, ostensibly unaware of Michael's distinguished and honourable service to his country and community in war and peace, the anonymous troll is made happy, immensely happy.

If only a petty annoyance, trolls dishonour this forum.

King, I'm perfectly aware of what old colonel was... and equally aware of what he is here and now. In my opinion, the comparison between him and Gladys Kravitz is almost perfect. I say almost, because Gladys never struck me as being hypocritical and anal-retentive. Gladys would probably never use the dishonest fallback position of faux civility and good manners whenever she wanted to dance away from the tough questions concerning hypocritical behavior as you and your little friend old colonel do.... along with the rest of your Liberal Left mutual admiration society.

Maybe you ought to take the advice given by Ken61, and just recant all of your anti-gun rhetoric and support for anti-gunners, since your anti-gun words were causing controversy and derision here for years before I decided to keep it all front and center. But that will never happen because you can't be honest enough to acknowledge your own words. And Gladys, I mean old colonel, can't admit her actual and patently apparent agenda is to silence opposition to the anti-gun rhetoric that trolls like you and Ed Good have polluted this forum with for far too long.

Dishonesty will never be civility King... just ask your imaginary friend John F. Kennedy.

Too funny eh King? The less skillful trolls vs. the uncommonly human pc'ers are in the cup finals. Do the pc'ers line up in pairs like figure skaters and do a disney on ice show?

I'm diggin' the hockey analogies. Hockey is life. Beauty and violence.

Slash Howe like that, King, and he'd go get stitched up and come back oot and rearrange your fookin' face.

You guys are nuts. The whole bloody lot of ya.

Probably not a good time to bring up the tariff, eh?


______________________________
Whenever I'm happy I elongate my diphthong. (It's a Canadian thing)

You can't do that anymore because that is what they want. Gordie Howe with a game misconduct and off the ice. That's why they surrounded Gretzky with 'Goons.'

Trouble was, Gretzky was so good that he made even their Goons good. And won how many Stanley Cups?

Nicknamed "The Great One",he has been called "the greatest hockey player ever"by many sportswriters, players, and the league itself. He is the leading scorer in NHL history, with more goals and assists than any other player. He garnered more assists than any other player scored total points, and is the only NHL player to total over 200 points in one season – a feat he accomplished four times. In addition, he tallied over 100 points in 16 professional seasons, 14 of them consecutive. At the time of his retirement in 1999, he held 61 NHL records: 40 regular-season records, 15 playoff records, and six All-Star records. As of 2014, he still holds 60 NHL records.

Nothing funny about no-pc'er Ovechkin possibly finishing career of world's greatest hockey player.

Nothing funny about posting anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric on a firearms forum either, eh King?

Come on King, hockey begins with Bobby Orr, ends with Wayne Gretzky, with the Montreal Canadians filling in all the rest.

You are very, very close. You just forgot the late 1970's Winnipeg Jets with Bobby Hull, Ulf Nillson and Andres Hedberg. Assessed by the Russians, after playing a bunch of NHL teams, as the best team in hockey at that time.

I sort of think that way at times but then along comes Crosby, who played street hockey five-on-one with my grandsons---"and he always won, Grampy."

Emotions are unfathomable in hockey: your opinion of Canadian eminence and my hopes for an American Stanley triumph because of Crosby.

Only yesterday in correspondence with another member, I commented that Crosby playing like a lion is one bad hit away from ending his career.

King, I'll bet that if you played against Crosby with your imaginary friends John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King, you guys would beat him like a baby seal.

After the game, you could go to Oslo to accept the almost Nobel prize for Street Hockey Excellence. Then you could all celebrate with a glass of your award winning wine... which was actually made by someone else.

Don't you think this has gone far enough? Please stop this useless banter.

A solution to trolling and continual caterwauling messing up our great forum is embodied in Stan's apology, plain as pudding:

"I must attempt to make amends for what has become my sometimes rude and callous manner of posting. I have realized this because I have been made aware that I have alienated a longtime forum friend on here. He, very graciously, private messaged me, and in a very gentlemanly way, caused me to do some self evaluation. I realized that I had responded to a post of his in a sarcastic and caustic manner.

"I make no excuses, and apologize not only to him, but to all my friends on here to which I have become less than considerate. I especially thank him for being man enough to point out my indiscretions in such a way as to cause me to take a good look at myself. I am grateful for that.

"The very things I have disdained in a few here, I had carelessly become. That is hypocritical on my part, and I will work to correct such behavior in the future. I am grateful for the many friends I have here, and hope to restore your confidence by becoming more like what I admire in so many of you."

To have the forum we want, the one we joined for, and to be the men we want to be and not the ones we are, requires a modicum of common decency that we extend to face-to-face encounters: respect and no unwarranted accusations and designating as liars and anti-gun those of varying opinions.

Fifteen years of my almost daily visits here confirm there are no anti-gun members. There's no reason we can't participate in the same generous way we discuss our opinions of hockey and whisky. Nothing seems certain and no one knows everything. Stan's integrity is no sure cure. It's a good start.

Can I suggest a modicum of common decency to get beyond a one size fits all notion? Shouldn't we be building bridges, not walls? I am micro aggressed to find that there is no room for a yes in the members only tent. Whew, I feel better, do you?

The board, particularly among newer members, has demonstrated individually that one-size doesn't fit all by not being caught up in the deplored behaviour.

They're here for what we looked for when we joined, and look what we lost by not following the rules. They're following the rules. Makes me feel better, too.

As for no yes in the members' tent, there's been a lot of no and yes between us over many years of varying opinions with no loss of respect.

Hahaha, that's really funny King. It goes well beyond sick to see you perpetually in denial of your own anti-gun rhetoric.

I posted one of your anti-gun, anti-2nd amendment QUOTES right here in this thread earlier today. In it, you were once again dishonestly proclaiming that the Individual Right to Keep And Bear Arms was not the intention of the Framers. You have repeatedly been corrected on that... even before I was here. The Heller and McDonald decisions reaffirmed it. But you are still attempting to persuade folks that it was a recent thing.

Bona fide pro-gun guys just don't say things like that. Ever!

I have been kind enough to re-post and QUOTE a lot of it for you in your own unedited words. I have repeated it and sometimes even put it in bold or colored print to make it easier for you to see. Gladys Kravitz, I mean old colonel, feels that's more than enough.

But obviously, it isn't enough. I can't easily pull QUOTES of your anti-gun words and post them again for you while using my cell phone. But as a special gesture of kindness, civility, and generousity of spirit, I promise to again post several QUOTES of your own anti-gun, ANTI-NRA, and anti-2nd Amendment words when I get home later this evening.

No need to thank me King. I'm glad to help.

Come on CB, the Canadians have 25 Stanley Cups!!!!

There is no other franchise other than the hated Yankees that have anywhere near that many championships.

You may have misunderstood me.

Les Habs are the best team in hockey, now and forever. The place of my birth and where I have lived half my life (and watched a lot of NHL and WHA hockey games) is Winnipeg. So I have some allegiance there. But the Montreal Canadiens are the best team in pro sports, bar none. (Mike drop) BOOM!

I promised to provide King Brown evidence of anti-gun rhetoric and anti-2nd Amendment sentiment that he (and others like Ed Good) have posted here on this firearms related forum.

King denied ever even seeing as much during his 15 year tenure here... even though I had posted one example of his typical denial of the Individual right to keep and Bear Arms just hours earlier. I don't think that Satan himself could be any more dishonest and deceptive about something. In my opinion, it would take a deep level of dishonesty, or severe mental illness, to deny that the QUOTES which follow are anything but anti-gun, anti-2nd Amendment, or anti-NRA.

I know for a fact that King has seen this one several times which was posted by his fellow anti-gun Troll Ed Good:



Here's a small example of King's devout and unwavering support for anti-gun politicians.



He dishonestly defends Obama by stating that he had "kept his legislative gun in his holster to position his party for '16." even though he knew damn well that Obama had done all he could to advance strict gun controls on law abiding citizens, and had already signed dozens of anti-gun Executive orders. King has voiced similar support for Ted Kennedy, George Soros, Bill Clinton, and a host of other anti-gunners. If any of us voiced similar support for KKK leader David Duke, King would pounce upon us and label us a racists. But he wants us to believe his unbridled support for anti-gunners in no way makes him anti-gun. Wow!

Here's a couple where King is selling gun control as a good thing, and criticizing the U.S. for not doing more to restrict guns:










And here's King using the exact same anti-gun propaganda as Handgun Control Inc. where he attemts to portray juvenile gangbangers and criminals as children:



King has repeatedly lied and provided false statistics to support his anti-2nd Amendment position. He has totally misrepresented the views of Constitutional scholar Marc Levin about his views on the 2nd Amendment. He has repeatedly flamed and criticized the NRA and Wayne LaPierre, and numerous times suggested returning to the same concessionary stance that led us to the Gun Control Act of 1968.

In spite of all this, and so much more anti-gun rhetoric from King, and Ed, and a few other anti-gunners, King can sincerely look us in the eye and say this:



When lies and dishonesty become as reflexive and second nature as breathing, you'll have that.

And it is that kind of dishonesty that Gladys Kravitz, I mean old colonel, wishes to enable by suppressing my calling attention to it. Has anyone seen Gladys b*tch about the off topic thread diversions when it comes to hockey??? Me either. Hypocrites like that disgust me, especially when their obvious goal is to enable anti-gunners.

Ever the kind and considerate member.

Have a good day Keith

You'd have to be pretty thick to believe that all those who voted left or right supported pro- or anti-gun positions, as if it were the only issue on voters' minds. Or that the Second Amendment is not an enduring debate. Or that those who supported Obama, Clinton and that avowed socialist Sanders from wildly radical Vermont were all anti-gun, and Clinton's 3,000,000 more votes than Trump (squeaking by on a College vagary of a total less that a college football stadium across three states) were all anti-gun, too! Guns were a far-down electorate concern.

I am in internal conflict. Does claiming to be multi issue allow me to justify anything? Anyway, there is no need to lobby for squeaking vagaries, we're all pro and the squeaky gal is starting her own lobby. I feel better now, do you?

Your posts always make me feel better, craig. I'm glowing from our even temperaments, even considering your side prevailed. It sure beats the broadcast troll hatred that creeps in from time to time.

King, this constant reference to the popular vote, by you and by so many other people, is meaningless. It is simply their system. Just as Trudeau has a majority "mandate" with 39.4% of our vote in 2015. Just as Harper had a majority "mandate" with 39.5% of the vote in 2011.

What is telling in these circumstances is that those on the losing side (Dems in the US in 2016, Liberals in Canada in 2011) scream about the unfairness of it all. But are quiet as church mice when the shoe is on the other foot. (Canada 2015).

Please, whatever point you are trying to make (and there may be a good one in there) don't mess it up with meaningless drivel that, when drilled into, actually diminishes the strength of your argument.

Popular or not, the meaning is the same: one side got more votes than the other---in the current US case millions more than the winner, whatever the system.

The number is not meaningless in the context of an absurd notion here that those who voted against the winner supported the anti-gun position.

I certainly do not believe that all of those who voted for the anti-gun Liberal Left Democrat are anti-gun.

Some of them could care less either way. Many do not shoot or own guns, and are likely motivated by other things such as a desire to keep the Food Stamps or Welfare checks coming.

But when it comes to you King... it is the totality of who you support, what you say, and how dishonest you are about it that make it so patently obvious that you have been decidedly and demonstrably anti-2nd Amendment. You have a long history of that behavior which has inflamed and disrupted this forum for years before I ever posted here.

You're not fooling anyone anymore King. You look like the arsonist who was caught at the scene of a fire in possession of matches, gasoline, and several prior convictions. When you tack on the number of times you have been caught red-handed in absolute lies, or posting absolutely false data or statistics to support your Leftist or anti-2nd positions... then you simply look pathetic and quite possibly pathologically afflicted.

This repeated denial of the obvious is sick. It is childish, and flailing and manufacturing silly and implausible excuses would be an embarrassment to any normal person. It is light-years away from the totally honest and repentant behavior exhibited by Stan at the beginning of this thread.

That said, I fully expect that nothing will change.

I feel threatened, can we get a comfort pony, free ranging and wild of course?

Why do you persist in pointing out our differences? Can't we build bridges, instead stew about what divides us? I have a solution to your concern. Since we're multi issue victims, why don't we have multi presidents? Some can have the real one, and some can have hill. It's a win-win and reflective of the great example society can demonstrate to our little neck of the woods.

I emphasize our commonality: the enormous generosity of the spirit and information of the finest board of its kind anywhere, and the decency demonstrated by members to make it what we want it to be. Each has a responsibility to the other to respectfully disclose from time to time the differences between fact and imagined reality, which is how our great countries were formed. Accountability is making the world less safe for fools.

Fools are people too. There's a fair chance we all have it in common. I wonder what stops the smart folks from making the world less safe for terrorists? Hmmm?

One time I went to a double gun bbs and a hockey game broke out.


_____________________________
Canada is Sault Ste Marie and Toronto. That's it. Oh, and Windsor.

Hey all, back to Stan's OP subject. I think Stan is a stand up guy. It takes a big man to admit he's done anything wrong and especially going public with an apology. I think we can all say that we're glad to have Stan on this board and my high opinion of him has risen even higher.

God Bless you, Stan!

Greg

Well said Greg. I could not agree more. Very happy Stan is an active member here and hope he continues for a long time.

You are drawing the line too long. Shorten it up. Dead give away.

Trawna doesn't even know where the Soo is. Windsor....isn't that the crappy part of Detroit?

What is this "commonality" you speak of King?

Is it yet another sales pitch for the stupid idea that we are, or should be, in one big tent... where Trojan Horses can undermine us and repeatedly stab us in the back?

Is it the repeated attacks on the NRA or the undermining of our 2nd Amendment Rights here on a firearms forum that you are speaking of. I suppose you could say that there is some "commonality" between you and Ed Good along those lines.

Then there is the limited "commonality" from the gang of "usual suspects" who act offended by any and all posting of gun rights topics, pro-2nd Amendment issues, and most especially any post or thread to inform real gun guys about the continual attacks from the anti's. You know who they are King. You are one of them who has solemnly vowed to stick to the topic of double-guns and who has complained bitterly about off-topic 2nd-Amendment diversions. But then you post more of your anti-gun rhetoric, and your support for avowed anti-gun politicians.

I did agree completely with your last line King:

"Each has a responsibility to the other to respectfully disclose from time to time the differences between fact and imagined reality"

Did you really say that King??? That is exactly what I have been doing to inform everyone of your anti-gun rhetoric and your anti-2nd Amendment behaviors. The fact that both you and Ed are in denial of those very obvious behaviors demonstrates the necessity to repeat it more often than I'd like. I believe that your repeated denials, when you have been caught with your hand in the cookie jar of outright lies and anti-2nd Amendment verbiage... so many times... is a perfect example of the differences between "fact and imagined reality".

I also like your mention that we have a "responsibility" to disclose those differences between fact and fiction. I believe that being a U.S. citizen, and an Endowment Life Member of the NRA gives me a "responsibility" to defend our gun rights, and to protect them from Trojan Horses and Trolls like you who operate from within the community of gun owners, hunters, and shooters.

I wish more people would feel and understand that standing up and protecting our Constitutional Rights is a little more important than some silly notions about manners and decorum on a double gun forum. And Lord knows that telling lies is not manners. And dishonesty is not, and never will be civility. Being an NRA member is, or should be, more than a tag line, or a hat or lapel pin that you wear at the skeet club.

I recently held the opinion that "critics for sport" had taken the fun out of this website. But the last few days have made me change my mind. Some of you guys are pretty funny. I think DJ now has more "off topic" posts than requests for information. I laughed more today than I have in months. But, one of you guys hold your nose, run in there, and grab a hoof on that dead horse. The Derby is tomorrow and I know you will want to start over.

Aha, exactly what I was advocating in another thread:

NRA now bestowing responsible citizenship halo with a paid-up membership? Reminds of Groucho not wanting "to belong to any club that will accept me as a member," considering what a full-badge member is broadcasting on this board.

Again with the dishonesty and twisting of words, eh King? Please tell us who ever said that the NRA bestows responsible citizenship?

I clearly stated that I feel it is the responsibility of a U.S. Citizen to protect the Constitution. Here on a firearms Forum, it is quite natural that sort of responsibility would pertain much more to attacks upon, and perversions of, the 2nd Amendment such as those posted very often by you.

I further stated that I feel it is even more important for an NRA Member to do more than the average citizen when it comes to protecting our Rights from insidious and dishonest attacks on the 2nd Amendment... and most especially when they come from devious Trojan Horses like you who solemnly proclaim to be pro-gun, but persistently eat at the foundations of our Constitutional Right through anti-gun, anti-NRA, and anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric... punctuated by totally dishonest denial of your own damn words.

These responsibilities to protect our Constitutional Rights certainly trump any silly notions that selective and faux civility and manners should supercede that.

Membership in NRA is, or certainly should be, more than a card in the wallet, a slogan on a hat or tee shirt, a lapel pin on your shooting jacket, or a tag line. Attacks on our gun rights are relentless. Defense against those attacks needs to be more relentless, and at least one step better.

Hey King, can you identify who said this:



Gee, I do believe that was you King... once again dishonestly attempting to portray Justice Stevens as a Conservative. And you lied about Constitutional Scholar Mark Levin's beliefs too King.

Want to hear what Mark Levin really has to say about the meaning and purpose of the Second Amendment? Take 5 minutes to listen to this:

http://therightscoop.com/mark-levin-the-...cal-government/

Hands up- Don't shoot,

Selby Lowndes

keith, i certainly agree with mark levin re the original purpose of the second amendment...it was to insure the protection of the people and the states from the possible usurping of power by the federal government ...however, now fast forward to 2017...we now have the radicalized nra, a most vocal defender of individual gun ownership rights, subverting the spirit of the 2nd amendment..in this day of advanced machine weapons, the individual right to keep and bear small arms has little to do with protecting us from government tyranny...

Didn't the President of the United States of America just address the NRA? He mentioned something about actual attacks on the Right, not subverting spirits. Do you think you mixed it up with subverting the spirit of your pro position?

A few years ago, a high ranking General in the Pentagon made the statement that there was no army on Earth that could defeat the U.S. Military... except for the armed civilian populace of the United States.

A few days ago, another Military Analyst made the statement that we are losing ground to the Taliban in Afghanistan... in spite of "advanced machine weapons", training, and backing from the U.S.

I have little doubt the U.S. Military could crush them if the political will to do it was there, but some lightly armed rebels and terrorists defeated the Russians and have kept us quite engaged for over 12 years.

Your silly and ignorant ideas about the 2nd Amendment being an antiquated relic that has no useful purpose in 2017, due to advances in technology, could just as easily apply to Government infringements upon the First or several other Constitutional Amendments.

I'm not at all surprised to see you denigrating the NRA again Ed, and incorrectly accusing them of "subverting the spirit of the 2nd Amendment." You and King have been in denial of the Individual RKBA both before and after the 2008 Heller and McDonald Supreme Court decisions. King has even taken it a step further and repeatedly lied about the Framers original intent concerning the RKBA, saying they never even discussed it or wrote it down. Surely you recall this one Ed:



I know your trolling won't stop until Dave decides he's had enough of your bullshit. But take heart Ed... Gladys Kravitz, I mean old colonel, is doing all she can to enable you and your pal King to advance your anti-2nd Amendment agendas. And I'll tell you what... if you are jealous of King, I'll place all of your anti-gun posts that I've saved in a Memorial Thread In Silent Doubles when you croak too. If you hurry, you can be first!

your friend,

Selby Lowndes

well, do you agree with levin and i, that the intent of the 2nd amendment is to provide the means for the people and the states to defend themselves from attack by a tyrannical federal government?

and, now if you wish to claim our individual right to keep and bear small arms is based on two recent court decisions, then i have a problem with that rather unstable foundation...a more secure base is my states and your states individual constitutions, where most guarantee a right to keep and bear small arms, subject to individual state statute:

http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/statecon.htm

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Ed, I must disagree. The NRA's position that the 2nd Amendment is an an individual right for self defense is one upheld by current Supreme Court decision. That is main stream not radical in terms of law with the stamp of the court.

I further disagree that an armed population is no threat to tyranny. However even if you were right, and I do not believe you are. That is not the only purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

If you do not agree with the Supreme Court's finding, then elect the legislators at state and federal level to amend the constitution. There is little likelihood the left can suceed as the majority of voters will not support the destruction of the Bill of Rights.

well, old you and the nra may be in agreement as to the purpose of the 2nd amendment, but levin and i are not in agreement with you and the nra as to the purpose of the second amendment...

i am in agreement with recent federal court decisions that support our individual right to keep and bear small arms, within the jurisdiction of each state......however, the older, more established individual right to keep and bear arms provisions of our individual state constitutions are stronger support...federal court decisions are easily overturned, subject to changing social attitudes...while state constitutions seem more stable and less subject to change...

as for resisting tyranny with small arms, good luck wid dat...when the gub mint comes after you with helicopter gun ships and weaponized drones, yo ass is fried.

and as for destroying the bill of rights, that will not happen, so long as donald j. trump is our president.

You cannot argue or engage in a civil discussion with a Trolling dishonest sociopath like Ed Good or his friend King. All you can do is expose them and their lies. Here's how Ed really feels about gun rights:










Sincerely, Selby Lowndes

uh keet...this is your same old pattern...when questioned or challenged you retreat and blow smoke...should have known better than to attempt to engage you in rational discussion...you jes cant handle hit...

You cannot argue or engage in a civil discussion with a Trolling dishonest sociopath like Ed Good or his friend King. All you can do is expose them and their lies. Here's how Ed really feels about gun rights:










Sincerely, Selby Lowndes

keet: you remind me of an octopus...when threatened you blow your inky camo and then slink back into your crevis...

keet, for once will you come out, answer my civil questions and respond to my engaging ideas? otherwise, this is no fun...

You cannot argue or engage in a civil discussion with a Trolling dishonest sociopath like Ed Good or his friend King. All you can do is expose them and their lies. Here's how Ed really feels about gun rights:










Sincerely, Selby Lowndes

ed, you remind me ed. If you want fun, why don't you be funny? Just ask'in.

craig: one can have fun without being funny...besides, i tried being funny here and bombed...remember the unfinished saga of my grouse finding pet owl? what was his name? ah furgot...an then there was my adventures in the everglades one winter, when kidnapped by the seminoles...and who can forget the horror of being swarmed by a horde of vampire zombie morning doves from georgia?

A little advice, ed...


________________________
...don't try. Charles Bukowski

I'm staggered that someone here even knows the name "Charles Bukowski".

and back to the OP

Never apologize - it displays a weakness and gives cause for them to attack

Wonker: you'll like this from Bukowski

“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”

Holy crap! Drew quoting Bukowski? We went from Gurnall to Jewish text to Hank. Aye, lads, a slippery slope indeed!


___________________________
Just think about the fool who by his virtue can be found in a most unusual situation playing jester to the clown. Gordon Lightfoot

Bukowski and Crumb. What a combination. On that level, I prefer Don Martin.

Regards,
Ken

Sorry lr How about this

Wisdom of Solomon 1:4-5 (Apocrypha)
"For into a malicious soul wisdom will not enter; nor dwell in the body that is subject unto sin. For the holy spirit of discipline will flee deceit, and remove from thoughts that are without understanding, and will not abide when unrighteousness cometh in."

Much better! That's the Drew we know and love!


_______________________________
The road to love is littered with the bones of other ones who by the magic of a moment were mysteriously undone. Gordon Lightfoot

did i ever tell you bout my cuzin ernie?