does altering forcing offer any benefit to shooters, as suggested here:

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.shotgun-forcing-cones.html

The link you provide makes the claim of "substantial gain in pattern density" I note they fail to provide actual statistics. Either in what exact changes they are suggesting to what current forcing cone angle and length.

A.C. Jones' work where he does provide data and does not corroborate their claims. He in fact holds the gain is negligible.

My belief is that in extreme cases of very sharp and short forcing cones you may experience some benefit, but those are extreme cases.

In terms of cost to benefit analysis I do not see it as a cost effective modification.

Shooters are often looking for that last percentage plus or some magic solution.

There are a number of modifications that can be done that give minor performance enhancements. None will yield the benefit of simply shooting more targets to gain proficiency.

The best investment is in putting the time on the range to build a consistent shooting style, determining a proper gun fit, and then more targets.

The shooter is the biggest part of the hitting equation.

Once you are consistent in shooting form it is simple; match the gun (to include choke) and the load. The results will improve.

Gladys, I mean old colonel, is this statement above one sentence, or is it two... or perhaps three???

And could you please provide an intelligible English translation for the following statement?



I won't be offering any disingenuous blessings to you today Gladys. Disingenuous blessings are your forte. BTW, did you know that Ed is an anti-gunner? That's why I won't be responding to his silly question about forcing cones. I don't help those who advocate disarming law abiding U.S. citizens, as Ed Good does.



I'm going outside now to cut grass and do some yard work. You have 8 hours or so to come up with a clever reply. Lot's of luck!

I don't believe that is true. Neil Winston once said something like - if the barrel wizards have some secret info as to how to make a barrel shoot better then I want them to take a good barrel and make it shoot worse and have it still look factory. Guess how many stepped up to show him?
I've shot some barrels that were absolutely hideous inside, a couple that were very likely dangerous, but it didn't seem to make any difference to the kill factor.
It's a shotgun - - - get over it

Every thread I look at the idiot Keith is in there, has he been released from the sicko house again ?

If I didn't know better, I'd think you don't like me 300846.



post # 446316 6/7/16

post #442091 4/19/16

I will be smiling the rest of the day just knowing I hit a nerve with you. Thanks.

Please:
No more lengthened forcing cones, back boring, porting threads......sheesh.

I would say lengthening forcing cone(s) does indeed offer better patterns, both in central core density and in overall size of the pattern. 20 years or so ago, I sent the barrels of my field grade Citori off to Seminole Choke in Fla. I asked them to give my barrels their 5" extra long forcing cone treatment. Within a couple of weeks, my barrels came back with the shiny new forcing cones so long you really can't tell where the end. As this is my main duck gun and I mainly shoot 3" hard non toxic shot out of it, I didn't devote much time to paper patterning.

Bouyed by that success, I ordered a 20 ga forcing cone reamer and forcing cone hone from Brownells to try my hand on my inexpensive Savage 20 ga single shot. This reamer cuts cones 1.5" long. This gun I did paper test and the difference in core density was noticeable. I told my buddy about it and he asked me to lengthen the cone on his inexpensive single shot Savage. I paper patterned his before and after and it tightened the total size of the pattern enough that I went and bought a choke reamer to open his choke up a little. After that I lengthened the cone on my Savage bolt action 58D and my Mossberg 500 in 20 ga. In all instances, I had a better looking pattern and reduced perceived kick.

Then I bought a 12 ga reamer from Brownells and a hone and did the cones on my Iver Johnson Hercules. That gun is full and full and shot exclusively with Bismuth. In addition to more even looking patterns, the front trigger no longer bleeds my trigger finger when I shoot the back trigger.

While it is fun to read other's opinions, as one who has done this particular modification, I feel confident in stating that there is gain to be realized.

Mergus

Sherman Bell reported one improvement from lengthened cones not mentioned in the link above: If you're shooting long shells in short chambers, there's almost always an increase in pressure, from a few hundred psi to sometimes 1,000 psi or a bit more. Simply lengthening the cone without lengthening the chamber will offset much of the pressure increase.

You naysayers either discount the .410 as not mattering in the discussion, or don't remember ChuckH's results from lengthening his forcing cones on his little guns to 4-5". He documented the results and showed before and after patterns on here. There was an incredible difference. Do a search and you can probably find the discussion.

If you're talking about only 12 ga. results you should say so.

SRH

"IF" it don't kick as hard then it don't shoot as hard, IE if you lowered the recoil with the long cone you also lowered the velocity of the charge.
There Ain't No Free Lunch!!

Maybe the long FCs are just nominally advantageous with lighter loads and shorter shot columns, but more significant with heavier loads and longer shot columns. In the instance of the .410 results Stan mentions, the forcing cones become a greater factor as all loads in .410 have very long shot columns. Like the gradual tapers in tight fixed choke. The more shot crowded into the the transition area, the more need to make the transition gradual.

Case in point, I had the FCs lengthened on a Win. 101 thinking I could get close to full choke performance from the modified choked barrel. There was no discernible difference after the work with trap loads. However, with tricked up hunting loads (plated shot, buffer, slower burn rate powders) the patterns percentages were higher with the longer cones. The full choked barrel could throw nickle plated #6s in the 90% range, with 70% inside a 20" circle at 40 yards.

Thanks Larry. Sherman Bell stated in his "Finding out for myself' series of articles for DGJ that he lengthened the forcing cones on ALL of his guns with short chambers, and then proceeded to use 2-3/4" shells.

A friend and I polished the forcing cones on a set of skeet tubes. There was a marked improvement in pattern uniformity in all 3 gauges. We counted the BB's on the 410 and after polishing we put 25 more BB's in a 30 inch circle at 22 yards. Choke was '002. If the forcing cone is rough it is causing flyers.

bill