Come on man,
lets see a few pic's of that fine Purdey Gun you were talking about..hammer gun, right?
Must be sweet...we'ed all love to see it.
Send them to a buddy if you can't post em
Love to see it!...Also that pair of cross over stocked guns you have,love to see them too.You can't beat good photo's
cheers
franc

Good luck with that. All we get to hear from him is how he writes checks and owns all sorts of tasty guns that nobody has ever seen. I've been here since the very early 2000's...and I can't ever recall a pic he's posted. Maybe I missed one?? I'd love to see some of these jewels he's yapped about for the last 17 years!

Hi Dustin..just hoping for some pics,
hope you are well man
cheers
franc

Lots of folks on several sites have been waiting years to see even one picture from Eightbore.

But he sure does like asking others to post pictures of their stuff.

Sure hope this is in jest, I don't mean it in any other way!!!

When I first attempted to join the PGCA, not knowing Eightbore or the "rules and regs"- I made the mistake of mentioning a high grade ejector 12 Parker left to me by my late maternal grandfather- when I refused to submit photos and give out the serial number and other data, things started to turn "strange"- as if he doubted that I might own/posses such a shotgun. I do- and both Larry Del Grego and Brad Bachelder have seen and handled it.

I sold it to a friend in AZ about 3 years ago-price is between him and me-and put the money into the MI college trust fund program for my grandkids future college education.

When he once posted that he bought a 12 gauge M21 from an e-bay ad for $500- I questioned that- firstly because E-Bay doesn;t allow gun sales, maybe gun cases and scopes- and secondly, because nobody today with Internet access to GI and GA and GunBroker would be stupid enough to "low ball" a M21-to a ridiculous figure. So, Eightbore is NOT on my Xmas card list.

I can vouch for one of the crossover guns, as I sold it to him.

If Bill Murphy, eightbore, says he has a particular gun .... he has the gun. I first met Bill at the Fall Southern S x S about five or six years ago. He is a straight up guy who, to the angst of many here, does not know how to post pics. You'd be better off believing if he says he has a gun, he has it.

Nuff said, SRH

Why would I be better off? He'd be better off learning how to post a pic of at least one of his guns rather than demanding over the years that everyone else post pics for his viewing pleasure. Quid pro quo eh? Seriously Stan, almost 20 years on a board and not 1 pic? Not even 1 pic that he could've sent via email for someone else to post?? I'm not a tech savvy guy, I know how to do it, what's his excuse!!?? He sure does like to tell everyone what he has and how he likes to write checks though. Seeing how you just vouched for him Donnie Brasco style though, I guess it's all good! :-)

I shoot with Bill, he has what he says.. the cross overs are neat, glad I dont need one to shoot.
The sidelock crossover is really cool as the locks curve along with the stock.
Not sure he has a camera or cares.....
Also pretty sure he doesnt like to write checks

I'll get the torches and the pitchforks !!!
Nah, forget that.
Thumbscrews, yah, that's the ticket !!! Thumbscrews !!!
No wait,
Trial by Fire....

My bad, LeFusil. I should not have said "You'd be better off". I agree that I wish Bill would post some pics. He has some screamer guns that I, and many others, would really like to see pics of.

I would not go so far as to say that just because he has been on the board 20 years he should have learned to post a pic. We are not all alike. Some of us are more dinosaur-like than others. If my son had not showed me how to post pics many years ago I would not be able to now.

SRH

I concur with you, Fusil-- quid pro quo. Anyone who knows how to buy and sell good graded guns should be able to use a camera and post fotos. I don't doubt that Murphy has the guns he describes here and on other forum venues- but remember this- No one man can be right all the time- we all make errors-the trick in life is learning from them--RWTF

How in the world did you come up with that, Francis? That is a stretch. BTW, how about a link to the last photo you posted, huh? I searched your posts 'til I got tired and didn't find one.

SRH

I think Bill simply doesn't care to share pictures of his guns on the Internet - for whatever reason. Lord knows we have directed him on several occasions to detailed tutorials on picture posting but to no avail. He probably enjoys the notoriety of being "The Curmudgeon Who Refuses To Post Pictures." I have even made the offer to go to his home and photograph his collection and post pictures supporting his claim of ownership whenever he talks about a particular gun. No, he didn't take me up on my offer.

Bill is the real deal. I was involved on the periphery of one of his deals and he is serious about this stuff.

Face facts, you have multiple generations on this site. Those young enough to grow up with computers assume everyone is completely literate in all things computer-wise. Then the next generation will have a decent knowledge, if they want to learn it or had to learn it for work or have someone in their immediate family who can post things like pictures for them. Then you have the semi dinosaurs who struggle to post pictures, like myself, and then true dinosaurs like Eightbore who neither know nor care to do it.

Does not mean they are less real, just that they did not grow up with computers, or in Mr. Bills case perhaps light, air and heat. Old guys, tell me things were always rougher when they grew up. Like the walking to school up hill and walking back home up hill.

I am terrible at photography myself. Going back to when film was king, I bought high dollar cameras with which I took almost no pictures. When it went digital I bought more cameras again and still never used. Now I have the latest IPhone with which I have taken many pictures, OK a few at least and posted perhaps five of them total. That makes me a semi dinosaur. It was up hill one way to school but down hill another.

This has nothing to do with anyone in particular but I have long felt that someone who admits they can't figure out how to post pictures on this BBS probably isn't smart enough to be involved with guns.

I rather think they are all too lazy to learn.

Having said that, the price of memory having dropped so low, most BBS's these days host their own photos. It's quicker and they are up for posterity, no more missing photos when viewing old posts....

It might not only be the learning it might also be the patience. Photo Bucket is so jammed up anymore I've practically given up posting pictures.

Might also be safety, he doesn't want someone breaking into his house looking for guns while he is away. Where I live the only lights are on the homes themselves and its dark and desolate. Someone could break in and be gone without anyone knowing it.

Bill just doesn't post pictures because I don't believe he uses a camera and even if you use a camera you have to be able to upload the pictures from the camera to the hard drive of your computer. I've seen some of his guns up close. Bill has nice guns and he's like a dog with a fresh steakbone in pursuit of new ones all the time.

Agree with Photo Bucket. It's a PIA with all the spam etc that goes on there. You have to wade through a pile of crap to use it. Picturetrail is a little more user friendly IMO. I do like that some of the other forums now allow you to upload directly from your Hard Drive to their website without going through the picture hosting services out there. Fox Collectors just added it a few months ago and its much easier to post pictures now.

Security is a real concern for many of us. I use as generic a name and address as I can. I never post as much as the name of the town I live in. I try to obscure the locations of what I can. You never know who is taking an interest it what you are posting. I never post current information on Facebook to let others know I am on vacation or have any interest in guns at all. Low profile or under the radar is my stance on the web.

Who cares? It's his choice. None of has any right to his gun collection

Because, Stan- I am 75 and not equipped with digital camera skills, and don't follow the outlines given on this forum for posting. Instead, I e-mail fotos to friend Raimey Ellenberg, and he has posted them for me from time to time. Fair enough? RWTF

I am older than dirt and as they say old dogs cannot or do not want to learn new tricks.Bill probably spends hours cleaning his guns and has no desire for learning how to post pictures. Bobby

Dam16 is correct. I have a reputation as a curmudgeon, especially in PGCA. I still have my first flip phone and still drive my '74 Country Squire, am starting, slowly, on the restoration of my '79 Harley Low Rider. I do have some published pictures of my guns. There is the DGJ article on John Phillip Sousa's Daly Sextuple, and a Remington Journal article on Sousa's Remington Model 10F. On the Ithaca subforum on Shotgunworld, you can see Walt Snyder's pictures of my Sousa Grade Ithaca Knick, one of ten according to Walt. I'll get right on this picture stuff. The Fox Collectors site seems to have some new tech that is user friendly. I am an early life member and have some interesting "BIG" Foxes to show. Eightbore.

Sorry Eightbore,
I posted only cause I love lovely Hammer Guns.
Didn't mean to start a row
cheers
franc

Franc, I love hammer guns also, and am anxious to show off the great Purdey. The week I got it, I was still laid up and couldn't shoot, so I took it to the range with three boxes of good English cartridges. I lined up the boxes on the gun rack and let my buddies break in the Purdey. We all had a good time that day.

I agree with KY Jon, If you are not careful, it is easy to find out who someone is and where they live. It would be very easy for a criminal to monitor the posts of a noted collector, learn something of the value of his guns and also learn that he has headed west for a week of prairie bird hunting...

"It behooves one to walk circumspectly"

I don't know if eightbore has the guns he claims. I do know I have argued with him about using a barrel wall thickness gauge which I believed too inaccurate to get good readings. However the next time I had occasion to use a barrel wall thickness gauge. I reluctantly followed his instructions. I got readings that checked out. I would think anyone that can use one of these infernal gauges knows a thing or two about old shotguns. I believe eightbore is for real.

Trial by water.
If he floats, he's a witch.
If he sinks, he's innocent.

Tough crowd. You'd think the poor guy voted for Hillary Clinton.

Well, FWIW, the first truly fine shotgun that I ever owned I bought from Bill (Eightbore). It was a Diamond Grade Lindner Daly. BTW, it was a two barrel set! The price was VERY fair. It did need some serious TLC but that's what I do. Do I believe that Bill has the guns that he says - absolutely!

My point was that you were pretty tough on Bill in your earlier post, and you admit you can't post pics either.

Bill's got plenty enough sense to post pics if he wants to learn how. If he doesn't, that's his business and nobody else's.

SRH

Hello All,

Wow, after going through the four pages I have come to realize that to some photos
make shotguns real!

Wow again!

Stay sane Bill, stay sane! ;-)

Jay Cee

Tough crowd. You'd think the poor guy voted for Hillary Clinton.

Based on the "I'd Rather Be Killing Communists" bumper sticker on his old truck, I kind of doubt it

I think it was Bill who once said no one can own all of the guns at one time, but one can own all of the guns, one gun at a time. Gil

Bills shotguns are real enough for sure. I've known him for a couple decades and if he tells me water is wet, I believe him. He probably has told me something that was not correct but for the life of me I can't recall it if it ever happened. If he tells you he has gun x you might as well figure gun x is off the market for now. Good thing is that he does sell his toys from time to time and his prices seem to be reasonable unlike some I know who think their guns are the best, most valuable guns on Earth. Bill knows a five K gun is a five K gun.

KY Jon, just the guy I want to see. I just broke my second .410 PW 800B and the broken part and installation is more than the cost of a new loader. I seem to remember that you had a solution for broken PW loaders. Maybe you would share it here.

I was "tough on Bill" in part because he got me booted from the PGCA gruppen. Absolute power corrupts absolutely- Now- as my German speaking friends might say- "Machts nicht" as I only have one Parker in my Browning safe- a 1928 era 12 Trojan Grade 28" M&F- DT.

Bill has his friends, and I have mine, and I guess never shall we meet, which is "Jake" with me- as I am not a serious clays shooter, as I surmise he is. I get my off-season shotgunning practice on area barn pigeons and crows, and I am just as happy and proficient with a 12 gauge Model 12 in hand as with any of my side-by-side guns: 1 Parker 12, 5 L.C. Smith 12's, 1 Ithaca NID 12 and 1 Utica Fox Sterly 20-- how many guns does any one man need nowadays-- we all know that after our demise, they will eventually fall into other hands, we are mere "custodians in the passing rush of time eternal"--RWTF

Murphy
Sorry to hear of your broken PW 800, they can be serious business. This is how My PW 800 B looked ((30 minutes ago)). Snowed here ever since our return from the Vegas Gun Show. With all the snow I spend much time pulling the handle on the PW 800 B. I may not live long enough to shoot all the shells. As you know when they get warmed up they can load a lot of shells. You can see I do spend to much time hunting and not enough time house cleaning.

Murphy
I would like to help you with the mote you now have in y0oour eye, However I am very busy with the beam that is in my own eye.
David Lien

My good friend, Mr. Lien, has probably used the 800B as long as I have. For me, that's about high school. I bought my first 375 PW in high school and the 800s a little later. I would like to hear (again) KY Jon's story about his experience with the 800B, which involves a trip across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge when he lived in MD. My good friend, Joel Gross, a great collector, fellow shooter, and Ithaca gun designer, describes the 800B as the "Ponderous Warren". Even though he is a talented watchmaker, he finds the PW 800B a bit hard to handle. I still have three of them on the bench after fifty years, but the .410s are gone.

My goodness. The point of all this again was what exactly?

and that post Dr Drew is why we need a thank you button here

Drew, I am buried deep in my gun room and hope that those with the torches get tired by morning.

Eightbore it was a 900 machine which I consider a lesser machine than a 800 machine. I have owned multiple 800 machines and have never had a problem with them. I bought the 900 from a friend with complete hydraulic system. I knew he had had issues with it. It had been returned to the factory for rebuild with zero miles on it. I sent it back to PW for a complete going over, a second rebuild.

PW machines are solid machines but not idiot proof and this fellow was a machinist and my personal experience is that "machinist" can decide that they know more about the machine than the man who designed them and built them. The problem with it was poor powder drops which should be impossible. Anyways it came back in good as new condition, it had not loaded more than a few thousands shells which as you know is nothing for PW.

Within five hundred shells it happened again, double or near double powder drops in several shells. None light or under filled. So I unhooked the hydraulic system and used it as a manual system figuring that maybe it was the hydraulic system. Same problem within a case of shells. So off to PW it went again. They went over it again and returned it. Everything was fine for maybe 1500 shells then it happened again. So I called PW again. They told me that there was nothing wrong with my machine that they could see and hinted about operator error. I don't drink when loading, don't play the radio loud, don't do anything stupid when loading. I had loaded 100K with MEC machines, in the previous five years, without any problems. In fact I was running two other PW machines at the time with absolutely zero problems.

So I sent it back again and had them go over the machine and do a complete rebuild, not cheap. Not cheap and most likely not needed. When It came back it sat on my bench for months unopened. Then a buddy asked to borrow it. He had been loading on PWs since 1975 He had four 800 machines and was as smart about them as Jim Cunningham at the time. Everything went well for two weeks then he called me and reported it did it again.

So there I was, with the machine which could not be fixed. I could not sell it to anyone else. What if the next guy had a son shooting and that machine caused a gun to blow up and injure a kid. I could not fix it. PW could not fix it. No one who looked at it ever found anything wrong with it. Even stripped down it was a time bomb waiting to happen. So it was then that I decided to get rid of it. I stopped on the West bound lane, right over the shipping channel and dropped it off the bridge.

I bought the machine with hydraulic system for $700.00. PW worked on the machine three times and rebuilt it at my expense twice. Heck shipping alone was several hundred dollars. In the end I had a hydraulic system which I used for two years until I switched away from PWs entirely. I sold that with my machines and got most of my money back. But I will never buy a 900 machine again. Maybe it is me, maybe it is them, but I refuse to make PW richer trying to fix another 900 machine of theirs.

I've got a 900 which I think is far better than my old 800B. Have never had a hiccup with it

As far as patience is concerned, I've seen guys slumped over a fender of a 1970 Challenger T/A fine tuning its six pack carburetor for hours on end but they can't sit in front of a computer for 5 minutes before their patience has worn to a breaking point.

The six packs had vacuum operated outboard carbs, and if the barometer went up or down, you got to do it all over again.


Best,
Ted

I have had 800Bs, 900s and 375s. All worked well except that one 900 from hell. It's like everything, there are dumb blondes and smart ones, calm red heads and hot headed ones good twins and evil twins. I married one of the later.

Those MOPAR six packs were a pain in the butt. For street racing it was just better to get a big honkin four barrel.

I was only looking for a couple of pic's...there was NO HARM meant (or implied) by my post.
I'm kinda sorry I asked.,,didn't mean to start a Who's Got What & Prove it thread.
Franc

Stop talking. Start showing.

... kidding, of course.

I would love to see any 8 bores you may have.

If you're going to the spring Southern, please consider bringing them along.

Thanks,

OWD

I am not in the physical condition to bring out the eights this year. When they come out, they will have price tags attached. I will discuss the pictures with my lovely wife. No one wants to see my guns in pictures more than I do.

I'm with you on this- but, as with myself, and also brother Murphy-whom I have met or shot clays with- it is all up to the current owner as to whether or not we wish to display our gun collections, whether at venues such as the up-coming Southern in April, or here or on any other website.

I believe in the wisdom of the Chinese- "He who carries a grudge will end up digging two graves~!" so I have forgiven Murphy for whatever he may, or may not, have done to get me in the "persona non grata" status on the PGCA- and I wish him a speedy recovery from his current medical condition, whatever that might be--

As we age, I at least look to the ending days of my gunning hero, Nash Buckingham-- and wonder how it will be for me when my time comes-- I think I may not be alone in that- as when Nash lost his best friend Hal Bowen Howard- "Hail and Farewell"--

I have never met or shot with Francis. He must have me confused with someone else who may have been his nemesis in the past.

The time for you will be just fine, Fox, with those sentiments.

King, my liberal friend, maybe you didn't understand that Francis was stretching the truth when he said that he had met and shot with me. He has done nothing with me other than to stalk and harass me about situations that have not occurred. Dave Weber has suspended and banned him for this behavior in the past. There is no reason to let a mentally ill person abuse posters on a great gun site. Posters on this site know Francis' history of harassment of other posters and should be about through with him. King, how about a comment or an apology. I have never gotten one from Francis, or, at least not one that lasted more than a day or two.

Wouldn't think a feller with a "I'd rather be killing Communists" bumper sticker on his old truck would give a sh!t if he had an internet stalker.


___________________________
"R" is for...REDNECK!

I can't believe how the moderator of this forum has allowed someone to be thrashed so severely just because they do not post pictures of their guns. I am humiliated for Eightbore.

Eightbore, I hope you have very thick skin to withstand this as you have.

My regards.

I'm pretty sure the great majority of it was tongue-in-cheek.

Miller will be OK. You want someone to worry about, worry about Francis.

Best,
Ted

I have to agrer with Tamid.

I dont know ANY of you, but to single out one person as a subject matter...seems somewhat sketchy. Especially because were not talking about an accusation of malfeasance or dirty gun dealing. Its just...because a guy doesnt post pictures???

Im hoping it was conceived as tongue in cheek.

' Nudge

What surprised me most about it is that one particular poster, that I had respect for, participated in the bashing. I'm still astonished ..... but enlightened. And I'm not talking about Franc Otte, he did not bash anybody. All he wanted was to encourage Bill to post some pics of his Purdey.

SRH

I don't know how I got involved here, I haven't even made a post on this thread. Personally it never occurred to me to doubt whether 8-bore owned the guns he mentioned or not Whenever he spoke of one he was always detailed enough about them that he had to be familiar with them so U naturally assumed they were his. It does indeed appear this is correct.
PS; I've never sent in a picture either, but most of my guns are "Bottom Feeder's" anyway.

I'm making an assumption here, Miller, but I think Ted probably misspoke and meant to say Murphy. He can answer for himself, but I pick on him enough I can certainly come to his defense, too.

SRH

Spoken like a true Southern Gent, Suh- and as the late Phil Harris would have said- "And dat's what I like aout da South" Yassar..

I am very honored to be discussed on this thread, since many of those commenting are my friends. Some of them have bought and sold guns with me. Stan Hillis, for one, is a real down to earth guy whom I have the greatest respect for. A real double gun collector is also a competitive shooter, which Stan is. Don't worry about the thickness of my skin.

It was my lame attempt at humor, involving the other elder statesman of the board, which, I consider Eightbore and Miller to be, at least since Klunk isn't around anymore.
Never met either of you, but, respect your opinions on most everything related to doubleguns.

I'm pretty sure if we all met at a range somewhere, we would have a good time, regardless of our differences. We have enough in common with our guns.

Sorry if my post went awry. Enjoy the day, all of you.

You too, Stan.

Best,
Ted

We could meet at the Southern Side by Side if we made cellphone or meeting time and place arrangement. Everyone is so busy at the Southern that it is so hard to meet with new people. Let's see what we can do. The great meeting place is the RST tent at the road entrance. The time and day are to be determined.

Sounds good to me, Bill. I'll be looking forward to seeing you again. Check your private messages.

Thanks, Ted.

SRH

Stan, my cell phone contacts at the Southern are in my PM to you.

Ted;
No problem there at all, just didn't follow your meaning at first. I am, definitely an "Elder". Thanks for the vote of confidence. I realize we don't always 100% agree, but hey everyone is privileged to their own opinion. I still prefer a reasonably good sidelock to any boxlock I am aware of. Although they are a sort of Hybrid, I put my Lefevers in the sidelock category of desirableness.
I do like everything about a Darne except the placement of the safety, though I could learn to live with that & would take one above an A&D Boxlock.
I have never owned one so can't attest to their actual usefulness but to me the sculpting of the bar & curved back line of the "New Lefever" (D M Lefever cross bolt gun) gave it so much more of a pleasing appearance than the typical square frame, flat back A&D. The A&D action has proven reliable & stood the test of time, but to me they just leave too much to be desired cosmetically so are just not my Cup of Tea. On the other hand my Lefevers are all more than 100 years old so I believe they have also stood the test of time. Even one I gave $25.00 for as a parts gun with a crack in one barrel & a busted stock still has a tight & sound action. It appears to have been Rode very hard & put away Extremely Wet as the saying goes.
I do have a Birmingham made pre 1900 J P Clabrough with back action sidelocks on plates which look like bar actions that I shoot extremely well. I have replaced one part on it since I acquired it some 30 years ago, a stirrup in one of the locks, I made it so no cost involved though I did finish one days hunt using it as a single.On that particular day I had gone rabbit hunting with my dad, my son & one of dad's brothers plus a pack of beagles. To the beast of my recollection I killed my limit of 5 rabbits plus one woodcock we flushed with a total of 8 shots, above average for me, but I always shot that gun extremely well.

While I have posted some pics in the past, my skill with the camera has proven poor at best in showing off guns at their best and overall disappointing.

I can readily see why some do not post pictures, even though I would love to see them.

Yes sir- "A picture is worth a thousand words" but that precludes the need for good detailed fotos. Not all of who mingle here on this website have those skills-I know I don't.

I was thinking about taking a class in digital photography and would be willing for others to send me graded guns to use for my education. Due to work load, I might have to keep said guns for an extended period of time until lighting, camera competency and time allow me to properly record them into digital format. Not wanting them to waste away from lack of use I would be willing to shoot them frequently if shells are sent with the gun. Special treatment would be given to small bore guns but no gun will be refused. I'll even take a few guns from my friend Eightbore and promise even if his guns misfire I will not drop them off the Bay Bridge. .

You're all heart, Jon.

SRH

If Bill Murphy says he owns the London Bridge you could take that to the bank. I wish that all of us could be that"stand up"

Best Regards, George

I would buy that, George.

I do not personally know Eightbore, have never met him, never shot w/him &c. We do have some common acquaintances & friends .. and to some extent similar experiences tho his exceed mine by a significant amount where collecting and subject knowledge is concerned as it does w/other generous members of this board. I am frankly amazed how quickly some spurious comments can present themselves here and they, IMHO, denigrate us all when they appear. As to Eightbore, as our old friend Bill Wise was wont to say, All Good! And I listen when he speaks.. and am generally the better for it.

Thank you, Mr. Murphy.

This entire thread is the silliest shit I've ever read on here....bar none.

^^ second that ^^

Only here would something like this go on for 8 pages.

For sure!

Please, everyone remain calm. I suggest some vigorous Winter exercise or retail therapy at Tar-shay. Me...


____________________________
...I think I'll just stay here and drink. Merle Haggard
https://youtu.be/JBB8_Rqvusc

TW, thanks for the flashback about Bill Wise. I think of him every time I dig out a Lindner Daly or attend a pigeon shoot. I talked to Ben a couple or few months ago. He is back up here, at least for now. I think my friend Brian is pushing us on to Pg 9.