You know this stuff (if you're a gun guy) but it never gets fully considered until you're trudging along and you suddenly realize that something is very different. Case in point: my post-Christmas trip to the "old country" this year. I had on a borrowed coat because the weather was "normal" for the first time in about 3-years and what I had brought wasn't quite sufficient. Meaning that it was "real" winter there, the wade in the snow kind of winter. Accordingly, I was wearing long underwear (both tops and bottoms), a heavy shirt, a vest, and a very substantial coat. This significantly affects what length of pull you will need on a shotgun for wing shooting. My Dickinson 28-gauge, which normally fits me shockingly well at 14 3/4-inches, was something of a challenge to mount. If a grouse had flushed at that moment, it would have been dammed-ably hard to hit him.

My solution to all that was thankfully simple (in a part of the world where nothing seems to be simple anymore), and it took the form of a sweet 1939 Ithaca M-37 in 16, a change of shells in a pockets of my game vest, and a short re-familiarization with the mechanics of a pre-war pumpgun. No big deal right? OK, what do you do when you know you're slightly faster with a double and you really want (or need) to succeed the next time a bird launches? With the 37, I took it off-safe in the grousiest of covers to help myself a little bit in the speed department (Pennsylvania grouse never dawdle), but that is seldom a good option (for a number of reasons we also all know). A nice, light game gun that has the appropriate length of pull to mount properly over heavy cloths is clearly the ideal solution here, but how many folks are ready to saw about three quarters of an inch off of their favorite fine birdgun? Not many here, I'm sure. Waterfowlers never have to even consider this particular issue, because the weather is almost always challanging and they dress and equip themselves accordingly. That's not always the case in the uplands.

Is there an ideal solution here (other than buying yet another gun, which I just did)?

If you're a hunter have stock lengths proper for most hunting conditions. Add a removable pad for clays and nice weather. A short LOP and a bit more drop than clay shooting works wonders to add weight to the game bag

My solution has been to acquire a different gun for every possible combination of clothing and shooting condition .... which is probably why I shoot like rubbish but they almost all fit me at some point with some stance
Jeremy

Lloyd, if I shot purely at the range in nice weather, my LOP would be about 14 3/8" to 14 1/2". But I mostly shoot while hunting and living up where I do my hunting can be either shirt sleeves or bundled up for sub freezing weather. Thus, my LOP assortment for guns I use regularly ranges from 13 3/4" to 14 1/2". I don't get my shirt in a knot about LOP unless it is less than 13 1/2" or more than 14 1/2".

I'm with Barlett. Another reason for an assortment of guns.

Most of my vintage doubles are not long enough for me as is, so I add a 1/2" leather lace-on pad. Simple matter for me to pull it off when I have to layer on a lot of clothes, which isn't that often down heah'. Especially this "winter".

SRH

I usually just walk off to the side somewhere and throw the gun up a few times to feel if there's any hold adjusting to do. I think for pretty much any hunting, I'll take stuff off and on through the day. Especially with duck hunting, I'll rarely start off wearing the full gear, gotta cool off a bit after lugging and trudging. Then, I might add some more later, otherwise the hunt might have to be cut short if some weather front blows in.

It is sad to admit that as I get older I not only match type of gun, gauge, ammo, shot size, choke or choke combination, stock selection from several choices for most gun choices, all to my outfit. Such vanity is not attractive but I am such a slave to fashion. I envy my simpler youth with one gun choice, maybe two choices in shot size and of course keen eyesight and reflexes of my youth.

I think we all think too much about what we need to be perfect. Right gun, right ammo, right hunting jacket. Some of my happiest hunting memories are of things which clearly could have been better planned or just happened inspite of my efforts. But if you must by all means buy another gun. Lord knows I've done it before and will do so again.

As I discovered on the final pheasant hunt of the season 2 weeks ago (high single digits when we started), not only is a shorter than normal LOP a good idea, but also a single trigger. If it's cold enough to wear gloves with much insulation at all, a ST is much easier to operate. So out came the old SKB 12ga; couple roosters in the bag.

My 16 gauge RBL came with two recoil pads that come off easy and switch in no time flat.

if you're one of those people who like recoil pads you can install a 1" recoil pad at 14 3/4" LOP, then install a 1/4" plate for hunting making the LOP 14". Easy to swap.

On the same hunt Larry talked about I was using the Husqvarna hammer gun I shot at the Great Northern for the highest score I have ever shot there. I should have had an easy limit, but didn't take a bird. Boy were the dogs ticked off at me!

The wisdom Mr. Wood puts forth in the last sentence of his post above is worth Re-reading a couple of times....

Mr. Brown is spot on regarding the ease of use that a single trigger (and a properly shaped trigger guard) provide to Gloved hands in tough conditions regardless of the game sought.

I have the easy screw out "Gun Nut" escutcheons in the stock of a do all 12 bore O/U that travels with me a lot, and 3 different recoil pads of different thickness to meet most conditions, and I don't hesitate to make changes as conditions/clothes warrant.

Is there any problem that can't be solved with the purchase of a Model 37?

Or your cheek well down on the stock, summer or winter.

Mark, now you have the perfect excuse: misfit due to summer clothes vs winter clothes.

Are Duke and Rusty still refusing to speak to you?

I suspect that is why they came up with slip-on recoil pads especially those fancy leather ones. One tries the gun with hunting coat on then just a shirt on with slip-on pad in place to make sure the gun still fits. No problemo, yes?

There is nothing that early 6,5lb 12ga Ithaca 37 with Mod choke barrel can't handle when it come to small upland birds or running small game. The fancy vertical or horizontal doubles are only needed when Queenie or Dukie invites for a formal country shoot. That last scenario is like going to formal ball you become what you shoot and wear.

Well I really have no excuse because one of the pieces in my pile is a nice Damascus barrel try gun so I ought to be able to adjust to suit (no pun intended):)
Jeremy

You're still either scattering empties around, or have to spend time looking for them. No worries with a double . . . unless you have ejectors and don't "trap" the empties.

Figures someone from Iowa would be skeptical and not be able to grasp the magic bestow upon its owner.

On another forum, we've been told that only shooting an LC Smith bestows that magic.

OK, OK, I see your point. LC Smiths are good too.

My late season pheasant gun evolved through trial and error. The end result is a 13 7/8"LOP and a single trigger housed in a double-trigger trigger guard. Makes gun mounts and triggering reliable even when layered up. In warmer weather or for busting clays I use a nice leather slip-on pad.

My end result is a 13 7/8"LOP and a single trigger housed in a double-trigger trigger guard

RIGHT ON, Dave

Good point about ST's. You'll find them in different positions within the trigger guard. The Ithaca SKB's are well to the rear, allowing plenty of room for even a heavily gloved finger.

Lloyd,
I suspect the fact that you travel so far to your hunting destinations has amplified the fit issues 'twixt summer and winter guns for you. A guy only wants to drag so many guns along on a 777, no?
Also, in a perfect world, we would all have the time for proper dress rehersal with both designs of intended guns for each season. Three months of twice weekly practice on a skeet or sporting clays course, prior to the commencement of the bird season, would go a long way toward eliminating the difference in perceived shooting ability between your double and your pump. As a kid, with but one repeater, a gun you handled at grousemas, the model 17 Remington that has been part of my life for 40 seasons this year, it was noted by several that I could get two shots off faster than they could with their autos.
It was true, at the time, Not so much, now.
Almost by accident, I have accumulated guns with longer and shorter LOP. I imagine you have as well, although longer might be tough for you, as you require a bit more than I do. Grouse, truth be told, seldom allow for a second shot. The problem is less complex than we might imagine.
Practice with both designs will go a long way toward filling the bag. If it is cold in Denver, today would be a great day to dress up and shoot a few rounds of skeet, with the short LOP pumpgun, versus reading a book or doing laundry in the afternoon, although, I understand the need to do both of those tasks.
I truly hate single triggers, except one-the one installed in the Beretta Silver Snipe my Father left to me, a non selective trigger, with plenty of room in the guard for a gloved trigger finger. My Dad had a short LOP requirement, which leaves the gun too short for most warm weather pursuits, but, just fine in winter. I have also discoved that right now 'tis the season to shoot and enjoy a 28 gauge Darne V19, that has a shorter LOP than is ideal for me, and my skeet scores have gone up with the little toy since I have been shooting it the last two months or so. I still shiver a bit, out there, even when dressed for it.
Roll with the changes, I guess, and not against them.

Good luck.

Best,
Ted

Ted:

These are first-world problems. I guess I was just surprised by my surprise. Clearly, I should have known better. I seldom encounter conditions like that because, like most folks, I normally wait until things are a little more accommodating (the birds clearly do as well, as I had exactly zero flushes). In this case it was self-preservation at work (escaping a house full of prepubescent kiddies). The simple solution here (as you mention) is always a bit of effort up-front with the tools of your choosing. Or, of course, you can always "rationalize" another gun purchase......

Also, after re-reading many of these posts, 3/4 of an inch does seem to be the difference between a good weather and bad weather gun. Interesting.

Guess I never sat down and measured LOP differences between my own. Even though my battery has stayed rather consistant over the years, my clothing hasn't, and the gun that fit just right over the Levi's lined denim coat I just tossed in the trash after 18 years or so, doesn't seem near so perfect with the Carhart replacement for same. I am also noticing a bit of stiffness creeping into the hands, elbows, and shoulder joints that were once quite limber.
As Pooh would say, "Oh, bother".

So it goes.

Best,
Ted