I have this gun want to source a firearm if possible. Gun weighs 9 pounds 12 ga 30 in damascus barrels. The only stamping on the barrel is the number 120 and there are no proof stamps either only a number 1 and number 61 on the flats any help or information would be of great help/interest The lack of stampings on the receiver is strange. There is a stamping between the fireing pins it is Ansch & Seele # 347 Brevete. Buddy Walters 813-967-5900 I can e mail pictures I do not know how to upload pictures to this post I am a first time poster

buddy19411959@ Gmail.com

Buddy, that couldn't be Anson & Deeley by any chance?
The 349 might be the patent use number,is it well made... or junky/jabc type?
Gotta have pics man
cheers
Franc
I see you mentioned Chas Daly...where is that mark..I thought there were not any marks?

We've currently got a Daly thread going. Please post your pics, info, and questions here:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=467518#Post467518

Regards
Ken

How do I upload pictures to my post

the barrel is marked Charles Daly the name I posted is stamped on the face of the receiver right between the firing pins a very strange gun with very little stamps I need to find out how load pictures.

Brevete is French for patent.
I would then hazard a guess that it is patent number 347.
It maybe a Belgian gun.
What say ye Frenchmen ?
O.M

To upload pictures.

Have the BBS window open with the post you'd like to put the pic into.

Open up jpgbox "submit an image" in another window. Click on "choose file", the screen will switch to your photo library. Click on the pic you want to upload.

The screen will change back, the pic address will show where the
"choose file" box was. At the bottom, click "upload photo", the screen will change and your pic will appear. Now, I always go to the picture sizes and click on the largest size. The screen will change again.

To post your pic, go to the box labeled " for forums" and copy and paste this info right into the BBS box you have open in the other window. That's it.

Please post pics of the action, action and barrel flats, barrel pattern, and any markings found anywhere on the gun, no matter how small.

Regards
Ken

Pictures posted on behalf of the OP, Buddy:

Additional pics from the OP:

Oh, Lindner Daly Nr. 61 w/ APUN so is it hammerless? Does it wear any Lindner marks? So, 1st series lower scears only w/out Belts & Braces.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, I have been slow posting the pics on behalf of the OP. Got them last week. When I saw them I asked him by return email if there were any of the Lindner marks and explained what to look for but have not heard back.

I guess you hadn't seen the second set of pics.....clearly it's hammerless.

Hello 2 Soot Balls
Welcome on your postings here.
Question: does it have a cracked breech face?
Thank you
Mike

So if it's first series, would that make it a very early boxlock? Does the serial number sequence include both hammer and hammerless or was there a division. These are probably pretty basic questions.

Thanks Canvas-Back. From a cursory view, I do not see H.A. Lindner's quality control mark nor does the example wear the Triebel forend bump, but has the long Triebel toplever. I wonder where APUN 347 takes us? With the info thus far, this example had to be commenced in the mid 1870s and makes one wonder if there were serialization sets for hammer & hammerless offerings. I wonder if there is another Nr. 61 hammergun out there?

Many thanks for the effort.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Reading my mind there Canvas-Back & I'm glad you are following along to keep my sanity.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

When referring to "Belts & Braces" with the presence of a top rear action screw, does that mean intercepting safety sears?

Regards
Ken

Indeed, Dig may have coined that phrase or that is @ least my source.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

"
Charles Daly Nr. 47 - 10 bore
"There looks to be a set of initials next to the "154", but I can't say. The form was there before Heinrich August Lindner added his mark, including the forend bump. So was Georg Lindner and his 1/2 dozen craftsmen making all of Charles Daly's gun inhouse; I doubt it. Where ever Georg Lindner was sourcing, Heinrich August Lindner contiued the tradition. I'm still unsure where Georg Lindner was an apprentice."

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...amp;type=thread

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I had English teachers at boarding school who used the term "belts and braces" where applicable. Anything overdone. I'm guessing it's a reasonably common expression across the pond.

I always chuckle when I hear it now because it reminds me (although not the same) of a "Full Cleveland"....the white tie, white belt ensemble often worn by Herb Tarluk of WKRP in Cincinnati.

Indeed, but I was referring to the use w/ respect to the A&D Body Action, but it has common English uses. Yeah, we are of like minds as I too fancied WKRP in Cincinnati, especially the episode where Johnny & Venus are @ the remote antenna station whaling away on a bomb in a tool box that they have no idea....


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

OMG, that's a funny episode.

Belts & Braces - Overhanging & Lower intercepting scears - so Charles Daly - Lindner examples w/ upper & lower scears would date post August 26, 1882.



Cheers,

Raimey
rse

So,

Am I correct in understanding that we are considering both guns to be first Lindner serial number sequence, but before Heinrich took over from Georg?.

Regards
Ken

Yes, Nr. 47 & 61 are in a hammerless sequence that began either w/ Henrich's founding of his business in 1874 or w/ the Patent Protection period for the 1875 A & D Body Action. For now it would seem that there was a hammergun sequence & a hammerless gun sequence???

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

What piques my curiosity is what number was assigned to the A & D Body Action w/ Belts & Braces?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

And of course mechanic LE was on the scene.





Charles Daly - Lindner Nr. 3364 w/ APUN Nr. 1487 has to be near the end of the 1st series????

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=251848&page=all

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

The only stamping on the barrel is the number 120 and there are no proof stamps either only a number 1 and number 61 on the flats any help or information would be of great help/interest The lack of stampings on the receiver is strange. There is a stamping between the fireing pins it is Ansch & Seele # 347 Brevete. Could this be a very early gun if 347 is a serial number like the other gun pictured ?

IMHO, if 61 is the serial number, it falls into the first Lindner serial number sequence, A&D makes it post 1874, and the absence of the first Lindner mark dates it pre-1877. So, Heinrich's father Georg was controlling production at that time, and figuring approx. 15 guns per month production, makes it possibly made in 1875.

Or not, we'll see when Raimey jumps in.

Regards
Ken

So far, #3744 is cited as the latest appearance of the first mark. Within the first serial number sequence.


I think we're on to something.

If 61 was made in 1875, and 3744 was made in 1892, that gives total production of 3683 guns over 204 months, or 18 guns per month. As far as the first Lindner serial number sequence.

Sounds like about the right amount of guns (four or five per week) that a guy with a rucksack trotting around Suhl could handle.

Regards
Ken

I just looked at the ser # it is 61 engraved on trigger guard so may be a very early Linder gun with out stampings I was wondering why so little stampings and no proof marks now I am thinking this is a very early Linder there is an other stamp on the barrels but is so small looks like typewriter keys even with a 10 power loup I can not make it out the quality is poor compaired to the other stamps on the gun. I will steel wool it tomorrow and see if I can make it out it is so small hard to see it is stamped.

I am now wishing harder that I could find a forearm to restore this old gun beeing so old it is in very good shape even the bores are very good the weight is the big draw back for me a 10 lb gun is too much for me at 75 but it must have been one heck of a duck goose gun in its day.

I would like to thank James Robin for his help with the pictures.
Thanks James

Yeah, Ken61 I keep deriving the same number which is the 18/month average. Adorned ones might take a bit longer, so yes an average.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

It was made before the proof laws came into effect. Thats why it lacks marks. One of the things that makes early Daly's interesting. I'm afraid there's usually not an inexpensive solution for a lost forend.

You can always get a piece of Walnut and try to mock one up so it could be displayed above your mantle.

Regards
Ken

You're welcome Buddy. Although it's actually Roblin. LOL

I checked the ser# on trigger guard it is engraved 61 now that I knowit isa Linder gun and so early I would like to source a forearm more than ever but that looks to be a very long shot at this point. It is in such good shape and only needs the forearm to be complete makes hope linger on.

Buddy, without the Lindner marks I don't think we can say definitively it's a Lindner, although it seems likely it may be. Ken or Raimey, feel free to correct me if you think I'm off on this.

IMHO, it's Lindner, but a Georg Lindner. There's also little doubt that Heinrich was also involved, It was simply before Georg had retired. There is really little difference as to which Lindner was involved as far as quality between Georg, Heinrich, and Ernst. The point is that they were all "Lindner Dalys". The question as to who produced the guns is more relevant post WWI, after the death of Ernst.

Both coming from and knowing many German families, it's common to have three generations working the family farm, with the oldest working well into his later years before retiring and giving up control. You know, kind'a like the British Royal Family..

Regards
Ken