http://www.wwmcmillan.info/nra_1963_RoseParade.html

Outstanding
How far we have fallen
Mike

The NRA formed its Legislative Affairs Division to update members with facts and analysis of upcoming bills, after the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) became the first federal gun-control law passed in the U.S. Karl Frederick, NRA President in 1934, during congressional NFA hearings testified "I have never believed in the general practice of carrying weapons. I seldom carry one. ... I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses." The NRA supported the NFA along with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), which together created a system to federally license gun dealers and established restrictions on particular categories and classes of firearms.

Saner times, indeed.

Ajjar, times change.

Thankfully the 2cd amendment doesn't.

ajjar is once again here to disseminate B.S. pertaining to gun control and the NRA. Many anti-gunners and anti-gun organizations use the exact same propaganda as he did above. But it is inaccurate, to put it mildly.

The NRA was not originally the 2nd Amendment Civil Rights organization that it is today. Its' original mission was the promotion of Civilian marksmanship, and it was never intimately involved with Gun Control Legislation until the late 1960's. Anti-gunners like to cherry-pick a few quotes from a very small minority of the NRA leadership in the 1930's or the 1960's to make the dishonest case that the NRA actually supported the NFA of 1934 or the GCA of 1968. In reality, the NRA mostly simply did not mount fierce opposition to those acts because that wasn't their mission back then. However, by 1965, a large percentage of the membership was demanding a more active role in opposition to further infringements upon gun rights of law abiding citizens. This was clearly evident in the large increases in NRA membership during the 1960's, going from 700,00 members in 1965 to 1,000,000 in 1968. The turning point came in 1977 during the Cincinnati Reforms led by Harlon Carter and Neal Knox. That surge of concerned citizens has risen to over 4.5 million members today, and those numbers jump during imminent threats such as what Obama and Biden attempted to ram through in 2013. And despite the claims of the anti-gunners and Fudd's like ajjar, very very few of us wish to give an inch, but rather want existing laws enforced. Intelligent people do not blame inanimate objects for crimes, and intelligent people understand that anti-gunners dislike all guns.

It is obvious that ajjar is here to advance gun control with 3 out his 13 posts here aimed in that direction. Anti-gun Trolls and Fudds are found on every firearms internet forum. The best way to counter them is with the truth. Here's a good article that shows that "Any hope of compromise between advocates of stricter gun control and the NRA ended after 1965."

http://jpfo.org/articles-assd02/gca68-nra4.htm

Saner times may come when dishonest anti-gunners quit trying to B.S. us. But the recent emergence of ajjar shows us that the threat never stops and we can never let our guard down.

Keith is 100% Correct.
In 1968 I was 30 years old & A member of the NRA. Their actions ""OPPOSING"" the 1968 Gun Control Act led me to cough up the funds to become a Life Member. It was shortly after this they became a Registered Lobbyist having realized that not being so had severely hampered their ability to oppose the recently passed legislation.
Back in 1934 their primary opposition had been to alert members to upcoming legislation, not to actively Fight it. They Absolutely did not Support either the NFA or the GCA.

When I was at LSU in the 1960's, I remember reading a book in the library titled "Politics, Parties, and Pressure Groups" by V.O. Key, fourth edition, 1964. Much to my amazement, the NRA was nowhere to be mentioned.

This was before the NRA had to deal with 1968 Victim Disarmament Act and the plethora of such illegal acts and edicts to follow.

The sole piece of legislation the NRA supported to the best of my knowledge was the Firearms Owners Protection act of 1987. Stupidly the NRA did not object to Reagan signing this act after Charlie Rangel tacked on a civilian machine gun ban at the last minute and Congress then proceeded to illegally attach it to the bill. That's the primary reason a registered Thompson submachine gun costs in the neighborhood of $30K today.
This act according to the antis was the last piece of legislation required in order to "control" firearms. Of course this was typical Libtard B.S. and they were after additional regulations before Reagan's signature was even dry. One of H Clinton's campaign assistants admitted(she thought privately) that Clinton's goal was firearms confiscation and she would proceed with it upon election.

I'll state this again:
The reason the Libtards want universal registration so badly is it's a very necessary step in order to proceed to their ultimate goal of firearms confiscation. We can never let up or stop being vigilant.
Jim

I am so pleased that some remember their history. Keith has it 100% Carter and the members of the NRA who brought about the Cincinnati Reforms deserve out thanks. They were wise enough to see the writing on the wall after 1968 and the membership supported them. Without the NRA's pro-gun rights shift there would not be a 2'nd Amendment today. This is when I joined and a few years later became a Life Member. Revisionist History is a plague and must be countered at every turn!

i believe the rose parade was originally started by a gun club

This event began as a promotional effort by Pasadena's distinguished Valley Hunt Club.

I don't remember all the details, but the NRA's opposition to Federal and/or NJ gun control measures led me to become a Life Member while I was a graduate student between 1964 and 68 and could barely afford it.

Pasadena Valley Hunt Club circa 1888. Obviously a social gathering with the ladies and everyone dressed up.
PSST: Wanna bet the State of California doesn't broadcast the parade origins to any extent!
Jim

Keith,
What part of my post wasn't factual? Don't you think if I was attempting to spout antigun bs that this forum wouldn't be a place to attempt it? Anybody who doesn't post regularly and who doesn't necessarily agree with everything you say verbatim, you attack as an antigun troll. Inanimate objects indeed need human guidance, but why aren't RPG's , pipe bombs, fully automatic weapons, or dirty nukes legal to own? There's always been a line. Where that line is drawn is where we may disagree, but we ain't much off, and not enough to attack a complete stranger, friend.

I dunno. Sometimes 'friends' feel it's the best way to move the needle, a little bit at a time, into the big tent. Who knows, there might be some kudos coming about civility and decorum. Pipe bombs, as in doubles?

ajjar,
Thank you for your postings
I have read all your postings and find them unique.

Do you shoot?
Do you live close by to Amarillo where we may shoot together?
What is your favorite personal firearm?

Happy New Year

Mike

James...shut off your water, sewer and electrical supply let's all go back to 1888. Sorry...I knew you wouldn't.

Keith...4.5 mil out of 350...says it all.

Ajjar....discussing anything with people that have a clinical phycosis is futile. They twist all that is REAL to rationalize their own agenda and ideology. Tell them the sky is blue and they will argue that in fact you are trying to fool them that it really isn't.

It's a shame, such a waste of brain matter. Oh...Keith believes we should all be able to own nukes, because the government does...because you know...he needs to defend himself from the tyranny of a government that one day may come to pick him and his brethren up for incarceration or slavery.

It is a great site to get info on sxs's nonetheless.

Dirty nukes dal, it's dirty nukes. But hey, you prefer regular nukes. We're closer together than we are apart. 447 dal. The number of voting members in the dnc, says it all eh? Happy New Year.

Keith is spot on saying: "Intelligent people do not blame inanimate objects for crimes, and intelligent people understand that anti-gunners dislike all guns."

I will use that quote from now on.

The line drawn is simple to figure, the aim of the 2nd amendment was that the people should have the same kind of arms that are likely to be used against them by the government.

For the opposite view seek a tv statement by british PM Blair about how only state operatives shoud have guns. That is a monopolist view and raises questions about declarations that western nations share a common view about freedom etc.

Thanks from making my point. Only someone with a phycosis would extrapolate that not letting the average citizen have free and unfettered access to nukes, tanks, F22's, drowns, and nerve gas means that they should not have the ability to own ANY arms to defend themselves against an oppressor....right?

Only someone that is psychotic could or would make that connection as the basis of an argument.

Oh...just read about what bill Blair said....sorry I forgot he is the supreme leader of the free world and that what ever you may quote from his speakings is absolute and reflects all what the free world is also thinking. Praise the almighty Blair. I apologies for not realizing that in your reality he speaks on behalf of the free world. Any other singular cherry picked quotes that make your argument?

Another informative thread destroyed by the actions of the socialist Neanderthals who for whatever reason are allow to shit all over anything posted here.

Interesting reference in the final paragraph of this article (especially considering that this post is entitled "back in saner times") - Montana passed a law requiring full gun registration in 1918. A lot of the history in this post seems to begin at 1934 and much is after 1968. I guess the 1968 laws are what moved the needle for most advocates...?

http://www.acslaw.org/acsblog/gun-laws-are-as-old-as-gun-ownership

ajjar, I have already indicated what was not factual in your post, but since you are too agenda driven to see it, I will repeat it for you. You said that the NRA SUPPORTED the NFA of 1934 and the GCA of 1968. That is factually untrue. It is also the exact same propaganda that is used by anti-gunners in their constant attempts to denigrate the pro-2nd Amendment efforts of the NRA over the last 50 years, since they evolved into a Gun Rights Organization due to the demands of the vast majority of their membership.

You also used the exact same cherry-picked 1934 quote from NRA President Karl Frederick that anti-gunners frequently quote. If you actually read that quote, all he said was that he seldom carried a firearm, and that the practice should be restricted and licensed. That is exactly what we have today under our Concealed Carry laws... restriction and licensing. Nowhere in your cherry-picked quote did Karl Frederick, or the NRA, say that they supported the NFA of 1934. Frederick, and a few others were merely content that it did not appear to interfere with sportsmen in general. But by the late 1950's, it became obvious that many politicians, mostly Democrats, were constantly pressing for further infringements upon the 2nd Amendment. This is when members of the NRA realized that the goal of anti-gunners was a slow attrition of all guns and gun rights.

That push continues even today, and it is aided and abetted by Fudd's and back-stabbers like you. We are not friends, and we are not likely to ever become friends with your current attitudes toward classes of perfectly legal firearms. I will not be inviting you to go shooting with me thinking that I will ever change your thinking. The so-called "Big Tent" theory of embracing and inviting anti-gunners and those who support anti-gun politicians has not worked at all. Trojan Horses like you are best left outside the gates and exposed for what they are.

I'm hoping that the illiterate mental midget dla (sic) will finally show us where I ever said that we should all be able to own nukes. And what exactly is a phycosis anyway?



Since none of us have the tens of billions of dollars necessary to build a nuclear weapon, a dishonest and idiotic point made by someone who frequently demonstrates his stupidity is meaningless. FYI ajjar, fully automatic weapons are still perfectly legal to own under the NFA of 1934 and the GCA of 1968, and wealthy private citizens can and do own military fighter airplanes and jets. Hell, Donald Trump could conceivably load his own Boeing 757 with fuel and crash it into a skyscraper like the Muslim terrorists armed with box-cutters did. And a dramatic proliferation of semi-automatic rifles and handguns has led to, ta-da, a reduction in murders in the U.S. compared to 50 years ago.

Making foolish points has not changed the fact that anti-gunners don't like any guns. And Fudd's who are willing to continue making sacrifices and concessions that do not affect them personally are paving the road to a day when our kids and grandchildren cannot own and shoot firearms. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that you voted for Hillary Clinton, who felt we should follow Australia's example of gun control. Here's what that looks like:



[img:center]https://i2.wp.com/hardnoxandfriends.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/NSW-no-reason_poster.jpg?w=624[/img]

The fact we have an NRA can be blamed on the ability of CSA (Rebel) soldiers ability to handle firearms & shoot Straight. I am, proud to say that I had two G Grandfathers along with other kinsmen who assisted in this endeavor.



Note this had absolutely nothing to do with Hunting or target shooting purely for sport. It had all to do with learning to handle a gun for being a Soldier. It was recognized by these gentleman the reason it had taken a superior maned, superior equipped, superior fed, superior clothed etc, etc 4 long hard years & the loss of many lives to suppress an Inferior Nation was that Inferior Nation were better shots & better fighters, due to the fact so many of them handled firearms on a regular basis.

Kieth...what makes you think your opinion actually counts?

'Life is too short to have a 'hate on' for so many things or people, isn't it?'

Good thought doctor dal. Why are you prescribing doses nukes and F22's for your double gun patients that are making an argument about legal firearms? Understood, some folks need their hand held and be told what to do.

Twenty-eight dal, twenty-eight. That's the number of US citizens that are seeking asylum in Canada because Trump won. That figure is a good two weeks old, could be up around thirty by now. Happy New Year, again.

We're in saner times, craig. The American ethos and majority that elected Obama is still in place, a majority in size that elected seven previous presidents, and is still growing. Americans didn't change overnight to insular and selfish and friends with Russia. They lost faith in leaders chosen to represent them, not the spirit of inclusion, generosity and innovation that made their great country.

Kieth...I see you didn't understand my question...not surprised.

Here...I'll try to simplify it....what makes you think that the opinion of hundreds of millions of other people doesn't count?

dla (sic), aside from you being stupid and illiterate, what makes you think these two questions are even remotely the same?

They're not you nut job.

Jim, I'm happy to be able to say we are living in saner times. Saner than the previous 8 years. Trump will soon be President and not a moment too soon.

The ineffectual Obama is gone and the criminal leftist Clinton was soundly rejected according to the 230 some odd year old rules of the electoral game. Always good enough in the past. Funny how it isn't this time.

King, how about you give up your ridiculous amount of federal ridings and senate seats in the maritimes, if popular vote is so important to you.

Interesting that now that Trump has won, the same people who freaked out about Trump perhaps not "accepting" the results of the election, are not "accepting" the results of the election.

Democrat, thy name is hypocrite!

followed immediately by:

"Life is too short to have a 'hate on' for so many things or people. Isn't it? "

Libtards. They come in all shapes and sizes. In the case of dla (sic) that would be extra small. When he says "Life is too short", that would be in inches rather than years.

Note: I have taken the time to answer questions posed by dla (sic) in the past, only to have him then go on to misquote me and twist my words as he did earlier with his claim earlier about nuclear weapons. He isn't worth a half-pint of piss, but can frequently be counted upon to attempt to impose his warped Canadian view of our 2nd Amendment rights. Speaking of warped Canadian views, is anyone surprised to see the anti-gun, anti-NRA, anti 2nd Amendment Troll King Brown still voicing his support for Barack Hussein Obama?

Kieth...You have just proven you are experiancing symptoms of psychosis .

In your reality, you can not even answer the simplest questions. Seriously, you should be in a text book.

Your postings here make a good study...and will continue to do so. Now, get back to insulting me.

Ah, it's clearly a New Year. Nothing like a good dose of sociopathic obfuscation from our dear friend and irrelevant Canadian, America-hating Commie Troll, Comrade Sralin.

Let's look at his passive-aggressive drivel and demonization.

America is now insular and selfish. What nincompoopery, all based on the false narrative of his commie friends down here who lost the election. To assert that Trump is also in alignment with Russia is more pap, and just goes to show you how intellectually vacuous sociopathic Reds really are.

Inclusion, generosity, and innovation are all American traits, notably absent from the hard left Democrat party, which believes in Balkanization, confiscation, extortion, and stifiling innovation.

Yes Sralin, America will soon be great again. Please keep it coming.

Small man... smaller brain.

And is still growing? Could be King. The polls say, the country is swinging their support and optimism towards Trump. Are you assuming the same polling 'majority' that missed out on being half accurate during the general election? Lost faith and growing majority in the same thought, eh? If obama can backchannel an iranian, why can't America Trump a putin? Don't you think Trump might have the sense to fold, instead of heaping on more loses to the russians, like bo tried to build his legacy on with the iranians? Can you believe the foreign relations kindergarten food fight that bo is handing off to Trump?

Four years ago, bo gets caught on an open mic telling medvedev to wait for after the election for a shady renewed 'friendship' with the US. A few days ago, medvedev tweets 'rip' to the obama admin. Did Trump make either say those things? Time to try something new, eh?

How about sharing some political insight? What do you make of bo staying in dc in a multimillion dollar mansion? Is he feeling like a wealthy lobbyist? How about all the red flags from inside your majority party, ellison ain't no lock for dnc top dog, eh? Will it really come down to biden proclaiming if he's a 'clean' enough sort or not to lead the dems and their perceived majority?

"If obama can backchannel an iranian, why can't America Trump a putin?" [quote craigd]

Nice turn of phrase craig...Geo

Actually I'm not disappointed trump won over the lying beatch. But seeing that symptoms of psychosis can be infectious, go ahead and keep up with your drivel. Now your psychosis will prevent some of you from actually reading what I just said, and thus, substitute your own version of reality, of what you think I said.

Very simple.

Geo, Obama's backchanneling with recognized enemy to slow Iran from the bomb and rebalance regional powers in US interests isn't the same to me as admiring a feared and long-standing enemy to the point of weakening the western alliance, which isn't in NATO, EU and US interests at all. NATO now is calibrating effect of US abandonment since Trump said in effect you're on your own.

It seems to me King that President Obama's back-channeling with Iran resulted mostly in secret bribes of American tax money to the benefit of an enemy country and a much ballyhooed nuclear agreement which practically guarantees a new enemy nuclear power for someone else to deal with...Geo

When you're losing, and you've got nothing, just resort to lies like the anti-gunner King Brown did here. Don't bother asking him to prove this ridiculous statement. King knows damn well that Trump merely wanted NATO countries to share a proportionate burden of the cost of defending them. And always expect such dishonest drivel when Little King attempts to disrupt any gun rights discussion by changing the subject and going way off topic.

What a complete fraud.

"...NATO now is calibrating..."

Oh, sh!t! Tanks and stuff are really expensive!

Learn to like vodka, beehatches.


_____________________________
There's a good hockey game on right now. Go Wings!

There was no mention of a "shady renewed friendship with the US," craig. Obama said: "'After my election I have more flexibility'. Trump's pre-election admiration and declared friendship with Russia's dictator is another thing.

No problem with Sunny Boy getting all dewy over Fidel, eh, King?

Det 1
Tor 0
_________________________
The Russian Five

Keith...another fine example of how your psychosis prevents you from actually having an informed conversation, and leads you berate and insult people due to your lack of basic intelect.

You know, if you don't have the brains to refute someone's point...just go...ya, well you're ugly.

You left out the part where bo was trying to give medved a tingle up his leg, but med just said, I vill tell vlad. If it wasn't shady, what was so sunny about the failure, that ended in 'rip', four years later? Or, did bo really mean vlad would have the flexibility to march into the Ukraine?

They should keep things on a civil level like we do here. Really, cuba could've given the boot to a few 'diplomats', but the mighty US? Did bo wake up one morning and find his legacy in bed with him? Trying to chew his arm off and sneaking out without anyone noticing, eh? I weep for big tobacco, now that the smoke breaker in chief can no longer enforce the understanding of the pc pulpit.

I enjoy your posts, craig. We know each other well enough to not get in trouble. My allegiance remains with your country, your people, not the parties or officeholders (and I think we're not all that far apart on that).

dla (sic), here's some free advice. When you wish to comment about someone's "lack of basic intelect"... try real hard not to misspell "intellect". Did you happen to ever have an English/Spelling teacher named Bill Ferguson, a.k.a. rocky mtn bill?

How nice, King. Now go buy some F-35's. Freeloading cheapskates.

__________________________
Third period just starting.

The more you post Keith, the more you prove my point. Nothing more intelegent to say than to point out that I misspelled a word?

Hmmm....?

Didn't think so.

King, why do you conveniently ignore lonesome roads, his questions especially? I think he is hilarious, and at the same time very pointed.

SRH

There you go again!

Like shooting fish in a barrel....lol !

I giv up. I no wen Ive bin beeten by a supereyor intelect.

Do you mean allegiance to all those insular and selfish Americans? How about all the racists and xenophobes? Of course you don't. What you really mean is allegiance to all the leftist, subversive, anti-American totalitarians in
in America. All others you consider sub-human.

I'm concerned about your health, especially during Trump's first 100 days. I suggest you lay in a good supply of nitro pills and consider purchasing a portable defibrillator.

That's ok kieth...I'm sure you'll come up with something intelligent to say one day. Until then.....lets see what Trump is up to.

Hahaha!

Keith, you're going to give Lonesome Roads a run for the money in the humour department if you keep this up.

Nothing much in the first hundred days, Ken, just picking up the low-hanging fruit and trying to seal-over the cracks.

But regret I won't be around to kick around now that your intemperate and inexperienced narcissist has taken up with the tyrant.

Always your friend, Sralin

He is hilarious, great for a laugh, Stan. craig is more fun at pulling my leg. As much as I like lonesome's posts, at times he is sophomoric, not au courant Canadian affairs. Canada didn't crawl to indefatigable Cuba and China as the US; they were friends from the beginning, and Canada as most countries was pleased by their overthrow of rotten colonial empires.

(A Canadian medical doctor who served and died during Mao's Long March is today one of China's most honoured heroes.)

I think you're a little confused. You've just described the last eight years, including the "Russian Reset".

The Democrat Party "took up with tyrants" decades ago.

King, the only thing sophomoric about LR's posts are his misguided attempts at championing the Red Wings.

All partisanship aside, the world knows the greatest hockey team ever is Les Habitants.

Hmmm, what the hell does Bethune have to do with anything being discussed here. Did I miss the part about Canadians who loved the greatest mass murderer in history???

Bethune is part of my response to Canadians "dewy" about Fidel and threw in also friend China, which US finally came around to after being sworn enemies.

Besides, on greatest, our forum is great for clean and polite, Habs and Red Wings, even Norman Bethune Medal is greatest medical award in China today.

My team always the Habs, from first day at the old Forum watching the Rocket streaking down the wing, his black eyes and hair appearing almost maniacal.

I was a bit maniacal myself, stayed at same height and playing weight of the great Belliveau, six-one and 211.

King, my hockey watching days started with the Habs of the later 1960's, lead by Beliveau but still with some remnants of the great fifties team. Then I got to be a rabid fan during the 1970's era, the greatest team ever!

I can't separate Bethune's medical accomplishments with his adoration of the mass murderer, Mao. I don't know how you do it. Frankly, given your admiration for socialism and communism and it's horrendous track record as the most evil, murderous system of governance as yet unleashed on this earth, I don't know how you do that either. Is it a willful blindness to the foibles of man? A rejection of including human nature as a key attribute in assessing the viability or desirability of differing systems of governance? You sure seem to happily give a pass to some pretty bad behavior in order to support the intellectual ideals.

BTW, Happy New year to you and everyone else on doubleguns. May 2017 be your best year yet!

I think King is putting us on.

Pooch, I don't think you are far off. Lol

Yuk, yuk, yuk, he's just pulling our leg. I'd bet there's plenty of room in the trailer park, I mean big tent, for all willing to quietly compromise. Security, can you escort that loud mouth racist and misogynist out.

Yes, in my day job, I lock everyone in a room, figuratively, we roll up our sleeves, and no one leaves till we can sing kumbaya in rounds. I feel better now, doesn't everyone else?

Hey King, football, no not soccer, ever watch? They're not calling for timeout here and there. The sign of the 'T' is a code, a strength and honor thing. They don't do that in hockey, eh?

Canada won hockey games with heart until Russia showed us how to skate. Strength and honour by itself no longer cuts it. Same with kumbaya. Canada set out on a clearly thought-out course that communities can't live together in a democracy unless they reach above self interest in search for a shared idea of the common good. Countries linked ONLY by compromise over self interest can't make it either. There should be an accepted Spirit, a balance of personal freedom with the public good. (Apologies for going heavy but, like you say, I feel better now.)

James,I've had a superb education about communism and don't admire it at all. At the time I was born, when my father was a Communist agitator during the worst of the Depression, "anyone not thinking that way at that time wasn't thinking at all"--exact words of Cyril James to me when he was Chancellor of McGill in the early 60s. Socialism is practised, served in mighty dollops, in every country today. Call our system what you like, there isn't a corporation or groups of corporations that have the money to take on big projects as "private enterprise" without tapping James and King. Bethune the anti-fascist didn't "adore" Mao either. He was there long before Mao's murderous madness of governance. You can't deal with the past by eliminating whatever doesn't meet today's standard.

No apology necessary. I have to admit, when you mention common good, balance, and accepted spirit, you tend to lose me. What do those things mean?

If there's anything we've learned over the last seven or so pages, it's that the russians can't do anything without their friend. Small, but it's a start, maybe Trump has much more to teach our neighbor to the north?

Another tidbit, I don't quite grasp, 'You can't deal with the past by eliminating whatever doesn't meet today's standard'. Whose standard? And, why can't the current skater in chief be held in question for slashing and burning, check that penning and phoning, whatever he doesn't like?

How does this apply to the new fellow elect? Does he get to dictate 'today's standard' on his watch, like bo is entitled to?

My, My.

Jeez, I'm really beginning to think you don't remember what you post from one thread to the next. In reality, it's just that you selectively filter your beliefs according to the subjective morality of your sociopathic, statist religion.

Does it ever occur to you that the whole issue of Slavery falls under this concept? As well as the treatment of indigenous peoples in both the US and Canada?

All that is straight out the window when there's the opportunity to create a politically dependent Victim Cult.

Is it just me? The thought of rationalization of Mao's actions in any fashion is totally abhorrent. I don't give a crap if he did make the trains run on time. He murdered millions, Hitler pales in comparison.

You must be referring to your thought of rationalization of Mao's actions as abhorrent; it never passed my mind. While you're on your millions, how many do you think for the Iraq blunder before it's over? Bush made nothing run on time.

I think you made a mistake, you really meant "Obama" made nothing run on time, or committed a blunder. If you don't deny facts, sectarian violence had dropped to zero when Bush left office. The war was won. Only your little commie buddy Obama was responsible after that. You know, the guy you admire.

I guess you're right about high-fives "Mission Accomplished," Ken---if the Middle East slaughter with ISIS et al after that doesn't count or didn't happen, eh?

Isis. A product of Obama and Hillary's disastrous foreign policy.

Astute observation, we still have better than two weeks to blame the 'last eight years'. Good news, tweeted from a luxury mansion in Hawaii, the farewell speech will assure his fans that all's well. What makes you think that izzle is a problem? I hope nothing, since the jv coach feels all is well. Ticket are free for the farewell, do you think he'll sell out?

From your old lefty's point of view, America's shining moment, it's contribution to the international order over the last eight years, will get us through---you, me, Ken, James, keith and jim, all the rest. (And a happy new year!) For all the trumpin' and thumpin' the only solution to global problems is restoration of the Obama system. If the world is to return to "normal," despite wide ideological and economic differences, it will come from the way Americans were represented since 2008: leading internationally to remove the nuclear threat, on climate, major crackdowns on offshore tax evasions, major agreements to regulate banking and investment, withdrawing from hopeless foreign entanglements, erasing remnants of the pariah state. Those patterns are still in place along with the American majority that put them in. I'd buy a ticket to see them again.

Now King Brown, the one-man Obama Admiration Club, is blaming Bush for the rise of ISIS.



And who but this dishonest fraud would even think to suggest that Bush would be responsible for more deaths in Iraq than Chairman Mao in China? Do a quick Google search for "Deadly Dictators" and Mao tops every list by far, being credited with being responsible for the deaths of anywhere from 49 million to 78 million people.

Top 10: EVIL Dictators

He might as well blame Bush for the attack on Pearl Harbor, and while we're doing King Brown Liberal Left Revisionist History... no doubt Cheney and Halliburton inoculated Europe with Bubonic Plague in the Middle Ages.

Now that would be fun, I'll bring the popcorn. But, you and I get to go home after the show, right? We don't have to stick around, to be clear, this is just for the commoners?

Absolutely, craig. Wouldn't have it another way!

King's just upset that Obama's "Great Leap Forward" is about to be ripped out by the roots. Not to mention we've totally avoided Hillary's "Cultural Revolution"...

Now King Brown, the one-man Obama Admiration Club, is blaming Bush for the rise of ISIS.

As I said before bad things happen when we put interest of certain country in the Middle East above our own. Hussain did not attack us and kept fundamentalists under control. In Syria minorities like Christians were protected by secular government lead by Assad. We need to stop getting involved in Middle Eastern crisis. We only make things worse not better. By the way you have voted for the worst president we ever had. Not once but twice.

King's a Canadian, JM. He didn't vote....

Hey! Wait a second. He would have voted Democrat. A little thing like citizenship wouldn't get in the way of that. Hell, dead people vote for Dems.

I was referring to Ked. He voted for Bush twice. Part of the reason I voted for Trump was he eliminated Jeb Bush his Neocon buddies and moved to side lines Dick Chaney and his annoying daughter. He said he will put America fist and take care of Americans if he does I will gladly vote for him again. I want American politicians to put Americans fist that is what they were elected to do. [censored] the rest of the world.

The middle east started going hard core Islamist after Saddam was brought down. Who was president then?

You really seem to have a lot of problems using the "Quote" function Jagermeister. It is really complicated. It takes an I.Q. of about 45 to master it, so you're almost there.

I'm surprised that you aren't doing more of your tire-kicking today. Did they throw you out of your local gun shop for drooling on the counter and being annoying?



Your dwarf buddy dla (sic), also known as Dopey when he worked for Walt Disney, apparently wasn't tall enough to see the rise of radical Islam when they bounced the Shah out of Iran or when the radical Islamists took those hostages for 444 days when Jimmy Carter was President.

Really Dal? Was Al Qaeda attacking the US through the 1990's and up to 2001 just kinda nibbling at the edges of extremism?

My opinion here of Clinton was as an unsavoury candidate, James. As a liberal I couldn't vote Liberal in our federal election because they were already dickering with big business how to lobby their expected new government before the election. My conservative friends voted against conservative Harper for his authoritarianism. Out-of-patience Americans voted similarly against their chosen leaders. Voter preference isn't a sure thing.

King, I meant had you been able to vote in 2008 and 2012, I was making the educated guess, given your vocalizations here in the past, that your vote would have gone to Obama.

Islamic Fundamentalist uprisings have been occurring for hundreds of years. Five things have really intensified them in the 20th Century.

Oil wealth. Allowing Saudi Arabia and others to fund these movements.

Establishment of Israel. Providing a focus not only on the Jews, but their Western supporters.

Russian invasion of Afghanistan. It created a massive group of trained fighters as well as an ideological structure.

Modern jet-age transportation and the rise of Leftist concepts of Globalization. Making it easier to spread the ideology World-Wide.

The Internet. Facilitating communication.

Take these five things and apply them to ancient, expansionist religious beliefs that are taken literally and that totally support subjugation of non-believers and you have our current situation.

Definitely. A lot of sentiment here from the civil struggles, the country giving him twice a mandate, easily the biggest mainstream political injection of hope in my career, a black in the White House. I never dreamed of it in my lifetime. Nothing has shaken my faith in Americans. I've said it often, "Americans always get it right over time." The near future is not darkness but shadow. Reason will prevail.

Savory, unsavory, still palatable, eh? I, for one, am glad that big corporate pulp timber is a small business. Otherwise, I could never work with them to lobby for my narrow, local, self interest. Did I ever mention how gov and greed ravages the dignity and progress of the native Canadian?

The funniest line in a movie ever!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWpU8sX10_4

Thank you CB and Ken for making my point. I guess you just admitted that Obama was not the only one to allow extremists to propagate.

But as you live in your own realities, I'm sure that you will give him all the credit for everything leading up to recent events. Like I said before...psychosis can be infectious, you seem to have caught it from kieth, who is obviously not intelligent enough to back up his opinion with anything other then insults.

No, dal, you've clearly missed my point. You've just distorted it to fit your partisan political beliefs.

The issue is how these Islamist uprising have been handled in the past, and how Obama failed, with his actions actually encouraging them. Specifically in the case of Isis.

The British were effective in dealing with'em, like the Assassins, The Sepoy Uprising, and the Mahdi uprising in the Sudan ending at Omdurman, etc.

We've also dealt with'em before at the "Shores of Tripoli", and TR's actions in Morocco.

To compare anything like those to Obama's actions is rediculous.

Nice try ken...your delusions are symptom of your psychosis. The facts are in your post. Not surprised you don't even believe the things you wrote as facts, as facts any more.

If the English were so successful what happened to their empire? The conservative thinking and actions are the best friends extremists have. More involvement and boots on the ground simply swells their ranks even more.

How much gov and biz ravages depends often where you live. Some forest communities have the push and competence to become masters of their destinies, running the industry from the bottom-up, as we do in Nova Scotia, the most radical institutional change on the continent.

Governments delegated their private lands responsibilities to landowners and mills dropped in line after they proved the only way to reach their forestry and environmental goals, at a fraction of the cost with no public blowback, was to turn away from the old top-down technocratic and bureaucratic control.

I've told the story here before but it bears recounting at these junctures of economic and social uncertainty that countries and communities don't need to suffer from savoury or unsavoury political mismanagement if they know the tools of influence and communications and how to use them.

Apologies again for heavy during our celebratory spiritual days although a message that the world isn't going to hell where the people take their civic responsibilities seriously should always be worth a toot. Toot toot.

Dal, you're simply in denial. You're also projecting your issues on others.

Denial, Dismissal, and Demonization. All the Hallmarks of anti-intellectual, faith-based beliefs.

Dal, I'll walk you through it.

I made the point that Obama/Hillary's encouragement and then mishandling/abandonment of the 'Arab Spring" gave rise in the short term to the conditions that allowed ISIS, primarily an association of Islamic thugs and militants who had been part of Saddam's government, to form and grow into what we now know it to be.

You suggested that it was the US toppling Saddam that started Islamic extremism in the ME.

A few of us made the point, to counter your assertion that Islamic extremism is a recent phenomenon, that it had been going on long before the Bush/Saddam situation.

You read this to mean we have contradicted ourselves??

Please try again.

I don't know about alternate realities or psychoses but I do understand reading comprehension and you seem to be lacking in it.

[quote=Jagermeister]

If the English were so successful what happened to their empire? The conservative thinking and actions are the best friends extremists have. More involvement and boots on the ground simply swells their ranks even more.
[/quote

Easy. The Soviet Union and Communist Subversion happened to the British Empire.

King, you paint a happy picture like we're told down here that ocare makes you the master of your health. We all know that the big corporate clear cutters are pleased that you fall in line. It's just a numbers game, and apparently they've upped the anti enough to have purchased your silence. Big frown King, big frown.

If you're feeling a little heavy around the holidays, just loosen your belt. Your buddy dal though could use a civilty lesson or three, life's too short pass up a chance to rant. Psst, lay off the beans.

Just throw in the towel Ken, because everyone except Dopey Dwarf dla(sic) and King Brown is suffering from phycosis or psycosis. But hope springs eternal because dla(sic) learned a new word, and may have actually learned how to spell it. And under Liberal Canadian law, that apparently makes him a qualified practitioner of psychology.

He probably took the "short" course, no pun intended.



Naturally, it is convenient for dla(sic) to totally ignore that the resurgence of radical Islamism predated George Bush, or to notice the dramatic spread throughout the Middle East including the rise of the Jay-Vee Team ISIS after 2008 when it was being effectively tamped down.

In addition to King's wildly dishonest comparison of Bush to Mao Tse Tung in terms of genocide, I got a chuckle out of the big Whopper he told yesterday:



King must have forgotten the interview he did shortly after his very abbreviated career as a CBC Reporter. He told about the large weight gain he had after returning to Nova Scotia just prior to suffering his heart attack. When you tell lies as easily as most people breath, it does become difficult to keep those stories straight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnvZSzaWZuw

Hey keith, I have sent a bunch of your posts to be reviewed by some psych students. Here is what they came up with.

1) You appear to be on the lower end of intelligence.
2) You are not near as intelligent as you think you are.
3) You were bullied as a child, and now are a bully yourself.
4) You lack self confidence, and mask it by being a bully.
5) You are threatened by things you can not understand, and therefore immediately go on the defensive rather than try to to educate yourself.
6) Your responses are grouped with those that would come from someone in their adolescence. That of a fourteen year old was bantered about.
7) You have few real friends. friends you do have fake it so not to become victims of your wrath.
8) When confronted with questions you can not answer, you take the defensive action of resorting to insults.
9) You deny or ignor facts, and create your own reality to suit your ideology. Re: you're delusional

I could go on...but the general consensus was that you are so far gone, for lack of a better term, that you can not change or will not change because it is easier for you to stay in this 'comfort zone'.

On another note...good on Trump for standing up to the auto manufacturers!

Talk about the "Pot Calling the Kettle Black".

dal, why don't you take this to a PM thread?

Back in saner times, some folks would call it plain ole hate. Isn't life too short? Just kidding Dal, knock yourself out.

I guess you've never read Keith's responses to me? I guess again you thought those were ok, as they did not get you to post a response as you did to my post? So I guess it's ok for some to insult others, but not the other way around?

Just say'n

P.S - I don't hate keith, I do pity him though. Also, my list was not insults, they were observations from educated persons. The truth does hurt sometimes.

'dal, why don't you take this to a PM thread?'

Ken....did you ask keith to do the same thing when he insults others?.....of course not.

just say'n

Yabut, keith's right.

Besides, didn't you say you drove a prius? Even kidding around about that could make some think you're a half bubble off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9Q3Bcn2374

No prius, but a chevy bolt is deffinately in my future.

Thanks Ed.....your right.

i showed dals post to some proctology students consensus is a severe rectal twitch.brought on by eating seal meat?

Nice one!

You should read up on the Chevy Cruz, the limited edition Ted model with the big block V-8. Some hiccups, but it won't let you down like you're used to.

Huh?

Yes, dal, I have. Keith and I have just exchanged PMs about the subject in the last few days.

Thank you....?