A lot of Darnes are built fairly light, no doubt aimed for those who will typically be involved in "rough shooting", often for more than one species, with lots of walking. My "Big" 12 to this point has been a short barreled 12 that weighs 6 lbs, 1oz wearing it's sling. The others are under 6 lbs.
This one is a bit different. It is a bit heavier than 7 lbs, with 27" barrels, proofed at 18.2mm or, about .716, and really tight chokes, .701 in the right tube, and .685 in the left. Call it, IMP MOD and EX FULL. Chambers are 2 3/4". The wall thickness seems to float between .065 and .100, depending on where you measure it. There is no export info stamped on the barrels. I'm guessing it is early 1950s, and the gun wears sling swivels, typical for a European home market gun from that era.
It feels massive compared to my other Darnes. Note the treatment to the front wood, with the rounded cheeks usually seen on graded R model guns. I'm guessing a European hunter ordered this gun, but, it doesn't seem like he got much of a chance to use it. It still has it's original horsey hoove buttplate, that time has shrunken a bit.
How it ended up here is anyone's guess. I can trace it as far back as the late Don Thompson in the mid 1980s, a dealer who used to come to the larger gun shows here in the midwest.
I own it now.
After a bit of maintenance at my workbench (it is filthy, and full of dried up grease and oil) I'm going to give it a try at trap-I don't hunt ducks.






Heavy walls, tight chokes.

Best,
Ted

It looks like off the rack gun that was produced in larger numbers like Sterlingworth or Field Grade New Ithaca Double. Many European field grade guns exibit better fit, polish and checkering than their American counterparts. That does not automatically make them special order. In USA approximate value would be $1200+/-100.

Sure has lots of case coloring left. Nice!

Well there you have it Ted. When you own a single Ithaca Model 37 pump and maybe have an N.I.D. on layaway, you too will be qualified to evaluate this Darne like Jagermeister. Since you were commenting upon the unusual weight and choke boring rather than the fit and finish, I guess we can conclude that Jag is able to read your mind too when he remarks that your new gun is probably not a special order.

Anyway, she looks like a keeper that led a sheltered life. At .716" bore diameter, it is actually closer to 13 gauge, so perhaps the chokes aren't overly tight. It will be interesting to hear how it actually patterns.

All he has there is old gun made for farmer to shoot: crows, ravens, rooks plus european hares. European hare shooting requires heaver gun and stout loads of #4s or even larger shot. Yes, as you suggest it would have been good keeper's gun. Those are people who took care of game on estates so that barons, dukes,.... could have something to shoot at.

I didn't suggest that Ted's new Darne is a keepers gun Jagermeister. I said it looks like a keeper. Oh, nevermind. I'll never be a double gun expert like you unless I'm willing to hang out at the Rent-A-Center.

I see you're still hung up with that class envy thing. Don't worry, maybe Barack Obama will move on to become dictator of Europe, and he will confiscate the estates from the Dukes and Barons and give them to the serfs and peons. All hail the socialists!

Would much like to see the barrel flats for proof and grade, Ted.

Regards, Tim

Not a bad gun better than field grade Gaucher or Manufrance Robust. I would rather have that Darne than a Trojan, Sterlinghworth or LC Smith of same grade and gauge. I'm sorry Keith is there something of value you would like to add?

I'd rather have a picture of a Sterlingworth. That is, without a doubt, the worst shaped grip I have ever seen.

SRH

Not if one has man hands with long fingers. Darne is not good choice for people with medium palm and short fingers or small hands.

Ted, a very nice looking gun. Darne'is are interesting shotguns to shoot. I find the stocks too small for target shooting. All of mine are too short and too small in the butt area. I use a very large slip on pad and build the comb up using one of the elastic covers that you slip inserts under. I have three Darne's that have a nice 3-4 pound trigger pull and one that is highly engraved that has 10 pound triggers which can not be shot at targets. I had to ream all my chambers and all the chokes. The chamber were all too short and the chokes too tight. My only question is will they hold up to shooting thousands of rounds. I have about 1000 through my 16 and all is fine.

Nope... just wondering if your local Rent-A-Center actually carries Darnes, or just .22 rifles like you rented. And are you related to Marco Rubio? You seem preoccupied with the size of men's hands. How is the grip on your double shotgun? Oh, sorry, I forgot... you don't even own a double shotgun. Just a short barreled Ithaca pump.

Tim,
Done:


It is an R10, with the triple scary proof. 18,000PSI was the number, I think.

I got into the gun on my bench tonight. God it was a filthy mess. The main spring is sitting just in front of the sliding breech. If you break that part, the gun is useless. Also, notice the fine hair spring for the trigger return? I lost that one. Since I used to import the guns, I have a small supply of them, and went into the house and got a new one.

This is about as far as you need to get into a Darne for the every 50-100 year maintenance.



Here is a picture of the new trigger spring that I fitted. I like mine better, anyway.



Back together, perhaps 2 hours later, would have been sooner, but, Alexandra interrupted me for a big plate of Colombian red rice with veggies and shrimp, and a nice cold beer. I still have to rub a little linseed oil on the stock. The gun is in really nice, but, not perfect shape.




PJ,
I am simply guessing it was ordered. Notice the front wood-it is shaped the same as the wood on a graded R model Darne, which, this is not. That costs more money, as the new guys can shape the typical R10 grade splinter, that looks like the front wood on Stan's Sterlingworth-very simple. This style of front wood requires more talent, which costs more money, so, you wouldn't get it unless you paid for it, after asking for it. Also, the butt is not hollowed on this one-most are. You would typically have to ask for that. Somebody wanted a heavier Darne, based on the weight of the barrels, and the solid stock. Every one I ever imported was hollowed.

Stan,
Even being as good a shot as you are, I would kick your ass, on any range, at any time, with this Darne, versus you, and a picture of a Sterlingworth. Any picture of a Sterlingworth.
The only person I know who is in love with the Darne semi-pistol grip is Steve Bodio, who was also a very good shot back in the day. Works for somebody, I guess.
I've been making them work for a few years. I prefer the Darne straight grip, prefer most straight grips, but, the gun was a gift to me, and I wasn't about to turn it down based on the grip.

Best,
Ted

Good looking waterfowler Ted. Dinner sounds darn good too. You might get to use it at Grousemas if you bring it up? You will either need to open the chokes a wee-bit or find appropriate non-tox for it.

Lloyd,
If I'm on L.O.W. this fall, forget ducks-I'll fish for walleyes. No ducks for me, thanks. I get it, I just don't do it myself.
The missus can whip up a fine plate of chow. Wonder if she can catch fish? Have to find out...

Best,
Ted

Ted,
You seem to be the Pied Piper of Darnes. They just keep showing up at your door in great condition. Gil

Good point, Ted. But, some battles are just not worth the price you have to pay to win 'em.

All my best, SRH

Stan,
All in fun. It isn't every day you get to see an exploded Darne on a workbench, with a description of some simple gunsmithing, at any rate.
Will it work for me? Remains to be seen. The elderly former owner wanted me and my son to have it, and that notion is good enough for me.

Best,
Ted

You're right, first one I've ever seen apart. The way things usually work for me, if it were mine I would probably find that I couldn't miss with it and then I WOULD be in a "pickle"!!

I hope you enjoy it, thanks for posting the pics.

All my best, SRH

Any difference between that grip and Prince of Wales? Gil

Yes. There is a radius on the Darne's grip that begins at the very front, i.e., no sign of a straight section. Try to picture how it would look if you tried to remove the round knob and convert it to a straight grip and you can see what I mean. Also, there is no delineation at the rear of the round knob ..... it just kinda becomes the belly of the stock.

SRH

Somebody has to do it. I'm pretty sure Stan won't.

Best,
Ted

After assembling an R model Darne, you might not be completely done. This view shows the main spring, with the only tool you should ever consider using on it, besides your finger. Always push down on the solid metal behind the forks to remove the barrels. I cannot stress that point enough, using a metal tool of some sort on one or both of the serrated forks will usually break them, and then you are SOL. It, the spring, that is, has to be able to rock on the pin to allow you to remove the barrels. Too tight is bad, and so is too loose. This one was too loose, and would flop when you slid the sliding breech back. The adjustment is adding a bit of bend to the pin that retains the spring.



The pin is the one at the top, that passes through the link that connects the triggers to the actual sears in a Darne R model.




The "little old lady" way to remove the pin is to start it with a proper Starret punch, and finish driving it out with a finishing nail to hold all the parts in place while you beat a little more bend into the pin itself. It kinda' sucks trying to hold everything together to reassemble the gun, so, use the nail to do that, and drift the nail out with the pin when you put it back together.




Here is a view of the little devil himself. I just take them over to my little vise, that has flat jaws, clamp them up and give them a little wack. I got it on the first try this time, and the spring is snug and doesn't flop in the gun when you open it.
Notice the pins on the back of the front wood. These locate the wood on the metal at the back. On my guns the wood all fits pretty tight, I imagine you could fire the gun without the screws in the wood, but, don't do that.



I hit the case colors with a light coat of lacquer when I was done, and finished putting it all together. This one is done now.

Best,
Ted

Ted, I'd appreciate it if you would give the tutorial on barrel removal and re-assembly of the R models. I've seen everything from banging on the old stock to muzzle jabs on a carpet. Thanks. Gil

Ted, some of us would appreciate your weighing the gun for an exact weight. .100 wall thickness would suggest a heavier gun than 7 pounds. I have never seen or heard of such a Darne and would like to own it.

Thanks, Ted. Fascinating work there. Interesting your 12 is so heavy, my R-16 is 7 lbs 2 oz, but it's a short 10 gauge!

Regards, Tim

Gil, the barrel/action fit is just the friction of the barrel lug once the top slide has been removed. You can break the friction fit with a gentle stock bump on the carpet or bump the muzzles if you prefer. Either one will work. You may be strong enough just to push it apart between your hands, but I'm not...Geo

P.S.: Be careful to hold onto the barrels when you break the friction fit or they'll end up clattering across the floor.

Tim:

My R-10 short 10 gauge is 7 lbs 3 oz. 27-1/2 inch barrels. Seems like yours and mine were designed as game guns, not water fowlers.

Rem

A Darne is what Rube Goldberg shot.
JR

Negative. Mr. Goldberg no doubt shot a Cosmi......his other gun was a model 12.

Could be, but, if you look at this very old dealers promo piece, Rube was busy taking first place in pigeon shoots all across Europe and in North Africa, in 1952, shooting a Darne.

The older I get, the more I seem to notice that when people imply something doesn't work, or work well, what they really mean is they can't make it work.

Gil,
I have to put a list together of do's and don'ts with a Darne. I have come to the conclusion, after seeing numerous guns, Darnes included, with broken toes and buttplates, that striking the butt stock is always a bad plan, inspite of what I wrote in The Double Gun Journal many years ago. I've had to do a bunch of simple gunsmithing over the years to Darne guns that somebody fell into a gumption trap with, and I'd just as soon not, to be honest with you.
A good example: The screw that goes into the very front of the front wood is NOT a wood screw, it threads into a metal insert that is threaded into the wood. If the screw seizes in the insert, and you keep turning it out, the threads in the wood for the insert are destroyed, and I have to glass bed it back in.
Bill, I will put the gun on a scale at work tonight, my home scales have all died and not been replaced. Heavy barreled guns were prized by the Bruchets when I was there, and I just missed a chance at an R11 pigeon gun, built on a slug gun frame, with a flat rib and R15 engraving, when I was there. God, it was gorgeous, and dated to about 1920. The Bruchets had restocked it, and done a superb job. I was simply out of money.
I will mention that the R10 12 gauge is not for sale at this time, as my son, age 9, gets first crack at it, per our friends instructions.
If he declines, in ten years or so, I'll let you know.

Best,
Ted

The French have some unique designs. Another example is O/U Bretton. By examining sample one might think it is a bit flimsy but the fact that it came in 9,3x74R is testimonial to action strength easily suitable to shotgun cartridge. Looking at French stuff is worthwhile and as with box of gourmet candy one is never sure what they will get.

You tryin' to quote Forrest Gump?

SRH

Yes but they also build 'traditional' break open shotguns that rival the best that the English can produce. That is if you're 'French' or 'worthy' enough for them to even consider building one for you.

From what I have seen, it isn't a "snooty" thing, it is just easier to do business where people are interested in your product, and speak a common language.

Most Darnes have sold in Europe, and in French colonies. They are known in other places, but, never caught on in those places. The average hunter here isn't all that interested in a double, of any type.
I have met, eaten, (and drank too much) with Richard Levi, the owner of G. Granger, in St. Etienne. He told me when I was ready, to come back and he would build a gun for me. But, he was uninterested in marketing or selling in the US. He had enough to keep himself, and two gun makers in his employ, busy for years to come.
The guys at Verney Carron seemed like they had the capability to make an impact here in the states, and while I see ads for the guns, I doubt they sell a whole lot here. They do sell military weapons in Europe (google "Flash-Ball" to see images of a startling, 44mm hand held double barreled canon) who knows, that may be the largest part of the business for them.
I don't think anyone building doubles of any sort is going to make a big splash in the US again. That time came, and, went.
It is over. We simply enjoy what is left.

Best,
Ted