I've been on the search for an American made double for the youngster, the Stevens 311 sounds good but I came across a NR Davis 20 that looks pretty sharp, are these guys worth it? You never really hear about this company. Anyone here have a 20ga by this maker that can give me some insight as to quality and weight?

Just a matter of opinion- I use "special" ammo in all my vintage doubles. Even a 3 inch Nitro Steel LC Smith gets my "Damascus safe " 2.5 inch low pressure loads. However I would not want to limit a youngster that way ( unless it was my kid and I was providing the ammo). But if it is a friend or neighbor or nephew. I would want to get to something he can fill from wal- mart. In my mind that is Stevens 5100, 311 etc. fox model Bs, ranger models, nitro specials and things like that. I think I would consider a Davis one that I use "special ammo" in.

stevens 311's have a rep for their reliability...however, they are rather clunky...

nr davis brand guns have a rep as being sorta unreliable and clunky as well...

if your budget can stand $500-600, get him an ithaca lefever nitro special...a well made, well balanced, reliable little gun, that is a joy to carry and shoot...

Fulton, Fulton Special, Hunter Special, Gladiator, and numerous house branded examples made by hunter arms are also nice older doubles.....sort of a red haired step child of the LC Smith.....

Do try to find one that hasn't had little round burn marks from a torch put on the metalwork, however. Better to leave them as found...


Best,
Ted

311 are pretty clunky in 12 gauge; they're less so in the smaller gauges. An early 20ga 311 is a pretty nice starter gun.

My choice and what I bought for my kids is an Ithaca/SKB M 100 or 200, actually made in Japan but a nice serviceable double

Be careful of chamber length on vintage American 20's. If you get one that has 2 1/2" chambers, then you're into the "special ammo" category. Some Fultons and, I believe, some Nitro Special 20's (Walt Snyder would know for sure, but I can't find confirmation in his book) had 2 1/2" chambers.

RA,

I understand your wanting to buy American made, and I'd never try to change your mind. But, for a kid, I felt that the more important issue was how shootable the gun was. As soon as my grandson could handle something more than a .410, I went looking for him a 20 ga. S x S. I found an Ithaca SKB 200E in unfired condition at an auction, and bought it for $850. It is a lot of gun for the money, well made, and he shoots it like a house a'fire. I can shoot it well, too. It's a lot more shootable gun for a kid than a 311. But ........... it's not American made.





Good luck, SRH

My two sons shot a Ithaca/SKB Model 280 20 gauge. They both liked the Model 280 better than the Model 200.

Hi:

I have a N.R Davis 20 gauge that is a sweet thing to use for an Upland Gun. It has 28"barrels that are ic & mod. It has a POW stock with a splinter fore end and double triggers. It is very clean for being about 100 years old without any pitting,rust and only a few small dents in the stock caused by gun safe rash. It makes for a very pleasant gun for hunting pheasants over a pointer and points very well for me. It is very slim and trim but the weight is a mystery as I have found that my two scales are both inaccurate! Perhaps the lady at the post office will weigh it for me.

Mike Orlen checked it out and assured me that it was safe to fire any 2 3/4" ammo. After all it does say,"As good as the Best" on the receiver! Lol

Be well,

Franchi

Like many of my SxS shooting friends I grew up with Stevens 311's Teenager I had a 26 inch 20 and 28 inch 12. Very serviceable guns you won't go wrong.

Few years ago bought a Fulton Hunter Special 20 in a local gun store. Late production just pre WW 2, 2 3/4 inch chambers. Good stock dims, Handled well 28 inch about IC right Full left. Put some money into it cleaning up the stock recutting the checkering. Used it as a loaner, everybody liked the gun. Sold it to one of my Parker shooting friends for his young son. We agree it's one of the better modestly priced American doubles.

Guys from the LC Smith club say the Hunter Special design is better than ordinary Fultons Not as easy to find as a Stevens.

Boats

Nice buy, Stan. And good choice. And while not American-made, those SKB's were imported by Ithaca, which had a long history in the American side by side market.

Stan is right, I should have described mine as an Ithaca/ SKB rather than just Ithaca. They are sturdy, well made , aesthetic and are about perfect for kids .

In the 50's, a friend of mine had a Springfield 20 gauge that was a sweet double. Perhaps one could find on of these old timers.

I too have an Ithaca/ SKB 200E 20ga. that is a great gun. Mine has 25" barrel and choked ic. and mod. Not American, but is a nice double.

Good luck,

Franchi

I one point I had a "Central Arms Co" 20 ga double. This gun was
built on the 1915 Lewis patent & was striker fired. It had uncheckered non-walnut hardwood stock & forend. I shot it well but it weighed 7 lbs. I soon traded it off as I preferred to have real walnut wood & figured if it weighed 7 lbs it may as well be a 12. The only advantage I could ever see to a smaller gauge was if it was lighter to carry. I would much prefer to load a "Big Hole Gun" down than a "Little Hole Gun" up.

I really prefer not to do either. I like a .410 for very light loads, 11/16 oz. and under, a 20 for 7/8 oz. loads, a 16 or a 12 for 1 oz. loads, and a 12 for everything above that.

SRH

Stan, I am a fan of the SKBs, and I have a lowly model 100 that I bought for my wife and am now restocking for me. Your 200 for $850 seems like an outright steal to me. Mine is an imp/mod and I would much rather have a mod/full but so be it. It will kill pheasants and carry easy in the winter when I have to hunt on snowshoes.

Thanks, Brent. It was at one of those lesser known auction houses known mostly for paintings and other antiques. I placed a bid and forgot about it. A lady called me a couple weeks later and asked for a FFL holder's address to send it to. Could have knocked me over with a feather.

SRH

Another plus for the Ithaca SKB over the 311 .................. my 28" barreled SKB weighs 6.4#, whereas the 311 will be at or above 7#, in most instances.

SRH

Thanks guys! I've got a BPS 28 that he has been using but lately he's been eyeing the doubles. The SKB is a nice looking gun, maybe a little too nice. I'm thinking something more utilitarian. I think we might have to check a Winchester 24, there's one here at a local store it's pretty beat and priced a little too high but if it fits I'll have to be on the look out for one!

That Win 24 may be the only double gun that catches more crap than the 311 !

Stan;
I was not really trying to sway anyone's opinion here just stating mine. for the type of hunting I always did I generally found I did my best shooting with guns approaching a weight of 7 lbs. "IF" I am going to carry a 7lb gun I can comfortably shoot anything up to 1¼ oz, though most of the time my loads hovered around 1 oz. Within these parameters I would prefer a 12ga in standard chambering rather than a 3" 20ga. The "Hardware" store 20ga that I said I traded off on this account was of course suitable only for loads up to 1 oz. With a 7lb gun why limit myself.
Of course in relation to the "Hole" size 11/16oz in a .410 is an exceedingly heavy load. Based on bore capacities being proportionate to the square of their diameters the 11/16oz in a .410 is proportional to 1 9/16oz in a 20 or 2 3/16 in a 12. A .410 load proportionate to a 1oz 20 would be about 7/16 oz which would be just a bit lighter than 1 3/8oz in a 12. Anything beyond a half ounce just doesn't make sense to be in a .410.

Yeah I've read the negative press on the 24, but in all reality how bad is it really,the extractors suck and the shape and appearance look different than any other gun out there, aside from that, well? I know it's not a model 21 or 23, it's a get dirty and drag through the field farm gun. Perfect for a youngster. We'll see what he likes as much as I would love to pick it for him, I'll just pick out his options and he can choose.

RA:

There are a host of sub-$1000 European shotguns out there you ought also to consider. Not necessarily everywhere, but available. For example, Antonio Zoli made a sxs that Dakin Arms imported in the 1960s. They turn up from time to time at gun shows. Beretta had a sxs in the same era. The GR2 (double triggers, extractors, splinter forend, POW grip) should also be under $1000. Likewise, some of the no-name German or Belgian guild guns.

Just a thought.

Rem

I understood that, Miller. No issues with your feeling that way at all. Just stating my preferences as well.

All my best, SRH

Or the Charles Daly version of that same gun. American name, Italian SxS. What could be better?

I have a Hunter 28" 20 ga I'd part with.