A gunsmith friend received a sxs today for a WWII veteran for cleaning. Pretty gun, in nice shape, and I offered to help both of the learn more about it.

On the rib is stamped: A. Stoll & Co. Mulhausen I/E.

It's a 16ga 2 1/2" chambered box lock, with a Green bolt, montecarlo, prince of whales walnut stock.

Here's the slide show, and thank you for any insight you can lend to learning more about the gun:

http://s1301.photobucket.com/user/wh_graham/slideshow/A%20Stoll

Thank you.

for one it has 2 3/4in chambers...which is strange because I only see Black powder proofs....seems like it was made pre 1923..looks like a basic Belgian made extractor BL....Id have the screw slots cleaned up..find a screw for the rear of the tang...have the action cleaned....and take it hunting with appropriate loads....

MANUFACTURE LIEGEOISE D ARMES À FEU with load data on tubeset. Dr. Hause should be along shortly.


1 Gramme 81 Poudre
24 Grammes 50 Plombs

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

A 2 3/4in chamber gauge does not seem to fully seat at that length, so it was surmised to be 2 1/2in.

We have the rear tang screw, it was just taken out before I started snapping the pictures.

The gentleman who owns it said it was brought back from "over there", but he acquired it used.

Here is one of the pictures of the above slide show

The barrels are stamped 70mm,

The picture is dark, is there a letter or symbol above the *H??

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Fun reading

I have an O/U made by these folks

http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisan...%20feu%20gb.htm

http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisan...0chien%20gb.htm

http://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/item_desc.php?item_id=469

Note that a shotgun chamber has a body taper to it of about .005" per inch. Most chamber gauges are made to minimum diameter of the forward end of the chamber according to "Present" day specs. Many older chambers were not cut to those specs. "If" the chamber is just .001" below the minimum spec, which is of no real consequence, the gage will stop .200" short. The gage is accurate only if the chamber was cut to modern specs.

Same load data as another 16g ML recently discussed here, with Acier Universal. Acier Special is another ML tradename.

Load markings, used only 1897-1903
1.81 grams poudre (powder) = 27.93 grains. 28 grains of a 33 grain Bulk powder = 2 1/2 Dram Equivalent
24.5 grams plombs (lead) is 7/8 oz.

Thank you. What does "ML tradename" mean?

Also, does the presence of markings limited to use from 1897-1903 indicate that the gun was made within those years?

Thank you.

Thank you. I don't have an O/U, but I imagine I would enjoy one like this SxS.

MANUFACTURE LIEGEOISE trademark & Yes.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Büchsenmacher A. Stoll & Co. Mülhausen i. E.(city of gates and churches) Germany

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulhouse not

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BChlhausen

Will have to check my notes.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thank you. Was it common for a maker in one country to cite a city in another country as where it was made? In this case, if I understand the info thus far in this thread, the gun was made in Belgium, but a name on the rib is of a German town.

Every day business. Source from cheap labour & pad bottom dollar.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

OK. This is great stuff. What a wonder if the world of doubles.

So the German's hired the Belgian's, or the other way around? Who got the "credit" for the gun?

German retailer placed an order with ML and said put my name atop.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Got it. Like JC Higgins putting their name on an AyA.

Thanks! The owner is going to enjoy this information a great deal I think.

For a time, I'm a bit perplexed what the I/E or i.E. represents; really the E. Where is Wolfgang?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Also, I'm highly confident that all of the sporting weapons wearing the load data were slated for clientele in the German Empire. Is that an export powder stamp, ECn3, on the water-table?





Is that an export powder stamp on the water-table?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Inspectors touchmark.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Ah, Wolfgang has put me on the straight & narrow as I was mistaken as to the proper city: Mülhausen i. E. or im Elsass / Alsace, France. The city was tossed between France & Germany until I would guess around WWI. So technically it would be a French holding & a French firearms merchant but was under German occupation during the time the sporting weapon experienced proof.

Mülhausen im Elsass / Alsace, France

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulhouse

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse