I bought a long gun which the seller sent to my FFL. When it arrived at the FFL the box had extensive damage. Seeing this the FFL decided to refuse delivery and had the gun returned to the seller. He took about a dozen pictures of the box before it went back. He was allowed to put some tape on the box to seal it back up, which surprised me. But at least the box was closed when it left his shop.

Surprise, surprise, the seller packed it poorly and failed to buy the insurance I had paid for. Apparently one or two layers of bubble wrap around a gun, thrown into a box loosely, works well for some shippers but it failed in this case. He now has the gun back in his hands and it did suffer major damage in shipping. Broken stock and ruined scope with assorted scrapes and gouges thrown it for good measure. My credit card company has returned my money. And he is mad because we did not just accept the gun. Been there and done that.

It becomes a pissing contest and the shipper always claims poor packing is not an legit insurance claim and they are right to do so. Then the seller claims it is your gun now because your FFL "signed" for it and you have to file a claim with the carrier, who you already know will denied your claim. And if he do not buy the extra insurance you paid for there is no money to make a claim against other than the minimum basic $100 amount.

Then for some reason the seller gets pissed if you mention the problem in feedback, on the web site he sells at. He claims it all your fault and screws your feedback rating because he screwed up. Don't leave bad feedback because you screwed up. Had he just taken the gun back and refunded my money instead of posting a bad feedback and given me grief for a month I would have let it die. When he posted a negative feedback I posted an honest feed back which really pissed him off. But after all the crap he gave me a honest feedback was what he got and other buyers should read feedback's on both ends of a problem. I just wish they let me post a picture with the feedback. Now I see the feedback has been deleted. It is a "disputed" transaction I am told. Not the first negative feedback I have seen deleted on a seller.

Note to shippers, bubble wrap is not a force field and boxes get dropped and thrown around in transit. Pack it well and fill the box with crumple news paper at the least. Ship in a cheap plastic gun case and charge for it if you must. Buy the insurance, if you charge for it, or the damages are all out of your pocket.

I just shipped a gun. Bubble wrapped it really good then put it in a box. I just could not bring myself to send it out like that. My gut told me it was not enough. So, I got another box and some shipping peanuts to effectively surround the original box in 2 inches of peanuts. Made me feel lot better about it.

I just shipped a couple guns. First, barrels off. Wrapped and taped in cotton towel, wrapped in bubble wrap. Barrels in 32" PVC 3" pipe. Stock and receiver wrapper in towel, wrapped in bubble wrap. Stock/receiver plus barrel in PVC go into double wall carton with every space filled. Zero movement. Will not me damaged by normal bad and rough handling.

Can't say for being thrown off roofs or run over by forklifs and delivery trucks.

Never underestimate the creativity of a shipping company to damage an item. It's a shame the UPS storefronts won't ship firearms. This would eliminate packing-insurance disputes if you could get the store to do the packing and insure it. They'd be hard pressed to blame the shipper-owner for problems relating to packing should they arise.

Who was the shipper UPS ?

UPS requires all claims be filed by the shipper, not the receiver. If a gun/box is received with damage they want you to hold it for inspection, not shipping it back.


John

If I had been in Jon's position, I hope I would have had the presence of mind to do what he did based upon the subsequent conduct of seller. Any claim was uninsured. Gil

Just shipping out a rifle now, I use USPS for all handguns and most long guns.
Fed-Ex would be my second choice,with UPS a distant 3rd. Its my understanding that UPS-at least they used to,subs out any insurance claim and there are lots of issues collecting form that company.

Ups was the shipper. But to be fair it was so poorly packed it could have been anyone and it would have been damaged. Bubble wrap is not a magical force field. I did not see it in person but the pictures were bad. My FFL refused to accept delivery. He has fought ups several times for insurance claims and never got one penny. Was the tn damaged in shipping? Yes. Was it their fault? No. And you will never collect a claim for such a poorly packed item.

The fact is that if I was selling a rifle for well over a grand, I would ship it in a 30 dollar case to protect it. Cost of doing business. Instead the seller used three dollars of cheap bubble wrap and tossed it into a box too large for his needs without additional packing material. Under packed by a large margin.

Thanks KY,

like you say,this time not the fault of the shipper-unfortunatly they UPS is not known for paying claims even when packed properly.

I can go on this for hours. I was fortunate enough to have provided the UPS shipping label prepaid for a gun that was destroyed last year. As the shipper and the receiver, I was at no one else's mercy,and I was able to provide all proper documentation from both sides. ( the seller would not take the gun back and said there was no way it could have been damaged with their packing job- it was average at best) However it took 3 months and a full time shipping claims guy in my office to get them to pay. I was foolish enough to only insure a 4k gun for 2k though so I did still eat it, but getting the full 2k was some victory.
$30 case ??? I received a once beautiful Kimber 82 22 this fall in a plastic hard case stock broken clean in half at the bolt.
It takes effort to pack one well enough to combat transit abuse.

Here's a real piece of divine intervention though. Two years ago when I found the crown jewel of my collection, I asked the shipper to please disassemble it and send barrels not attached to the frame.
The gun arrived assembled sleeved in an old canvas sock in a 60x12x5 box with ONE PAGE of newspaper floating in the box with the gun. The box barely held its shape, the barrels had poked through but miraculously the gun sustained no damage.

Here's an example of the creative powers of a shipper to overcome a hard case to break a stock. When I buy a gun, I email this photo to the seller to encourage him to remove barrel from action or receiver and to pack carefully:

United Parcel Service is the worst shipper out there by a very large margin in my opinion. Anyone who ships/and or receives a gun via UPS is taking a big chance even if packaged well.

IF YOU are the buyer THEN you are paying the shipping cost and you should specify which method is acceptable to you, i.e. Fed Ex and or The United States Postal Service without exception. If the seller will not accept these terms, then NO SALE. For Auction Purchases, ask about shipping before you buy, just like you do when you question a seller about the guns condition, via phone or email etc.

For guns or parts, including ORMD shipments of any kind I always specify Fed Ex or USPS (priority mail usually for guns), since I am the one paying for it. I have had zero problems with Fed Ex and USPS.

With Fed Ex the boxes always arrive clean and undamaged, even the bottoms of the boxes are clean (poorly packaged boxes arrive sound as well), so Fed Ex must clean their trucks often and use some care in loading and unloading...?

Many auction sellers use UPS because they don't know (or too lazy) how to use USPS Click 'N Ship where they can print the label and specify a pick up time and the type of USPS service desired for the Postal truck to pick up the shipment. USPS Priority Mail Insured is about as safe as it gets, which is the same as Registered Mail.

Best,

It's always nice to read and share gun shipping horror stories when one has a gun in shipment, undelivered. I have one at this moment heading cross country.