Given a choice between a gun safe and a traditional cabinet (one that is well made and high end, not a do-it-yourself, paint by numbers) which would you choose and why? I'm not unaware of the attractions of fine guns for thieves, but realistically, how many of us are at that kind of risk? What are the virtues of a safe over a locked piece of furniture?
Fire protection is a big difference.
Also, a safe conceals my ever expanding collection from my wife's left leaning friends.
I've been thinking about it too. I know a safe makes a lot of sense, but there's just something about walking into my little study and seeing the guns there through the glass! I've got some nice guns I sure don't want to lose, and some with a lot of sentimental value, but nothing priceless or highly collectable. They're insured, but still, I know I'll kick myself if something happens.
I followed that thread, and in part, it's why I posted tonight. Most of the posts skirted genuine answers with references to keeping wives out of the loop. Again, I can't believe that the majority of us are at risk from either fire or theft or, horrors, left-leaning gun spies. If you own something beautiful why wouldn't you want to display it or keep it in close, accessible proximity. Not everyone can afford a gun room with security lockdown, but garages and basements don't strike me as the place for guns or art.
Theft of unsecured displayed guns is almost guaranteed. I live in a very low crime rate area, but would never display my guns.
The problem is that people will see your goodies, and they will talk and discuss what they've seen. Sooner or later, the information gets to someone (or someone's kid) who needs cash quickly. What could be an easier mark? Just wait for the driveway to be empty and the house dark...
Besides, every stolen gun that's used in a crime is more ammunition for the Aunties. We owe it to each other to keep our firearms safely secured.
Safe: takes time to drill, torch, jimmy, or haul away
Tasteful display cabinet: smash and grab in a jiff
Safe: easily maintained micro-environment, no UV, no dust
TDC: need some really good dust rabbets to keep out the smut; UV sees where you see
Safe: space-conserving square or rectangular footprint
TDC: everybody form up in one equal rank
Safe: inexpensive, doesn't have to be a Browning or Canon; 90% of what you get in a bigun available in a cuddly little thing from StackOn (Dick's Sporting Goods) you can move yourself on a fridge dolly
TDC: You won't be happy with pasteboard from KMart so it'll be worth more than what's in it and probably more cumbersome to move than a small safe.
Safe: Stick em in there muzzle down and avoid the mushy head; stick em in a sack and stuff in more, and more, and more, and more
TDC: Worry about stepping stone barrel lengths and attractive "groupings"
Safe: Kids never remember a combo
TDC: They'll search for the key
jack
I built a hidden gun room in my basement. Took several weeks and more money than a pair of RBLs but it is well worth the investment. It has no outside window so only those invited in ever get to see what is behind door number two. Holds 300 plus and has work bench, tables and nice area to reload in it. Think wine cellar for the gun nut.
Public display is not a bright idea. Just like an add to come steal my stuff. On top of that most theives do not know one doulbe from another so they will just grab all they can and you will be out your entire collection. I know of one fellow who has 15-20 klunkers in a glass gun cabinet to use as bait. The good stuff is in a safe that is behind door number one. He hopes a smash and grab type will take the easy stuiff and leave the good stuff alone. Not a great plan but better than none I suspose.
safe; I go into many homes in my business.And I know of at least 6 people which think someone they knew stole there guns when/ on vacation/ @ bowling league/ one was while having a monthly christian mens breakfast/ even while shooting at the local sportsmans club. We all think (like they did) that could never happen to ME. They lost not only some high priced guns; but guns from fathers and grandfathers. It convinced me to buy a safe.
I have heard that the fire protection aspect is a bit overrated. Your guns may not actually burn but they will cook, the wood will suffer, they'll have to be refinished. Then the insurance co. may deny replacement value, only pay for them to be refinished. What happens to the value of that Parker AAH if the wood is refinished?
Better to have them documented and burn completely I think.
And if you have to worry about hiding guns from the wife you shouldn't
a- be married, or
b- be playing with guns.
Disclaimer: I'm not married.
Glass door guncabinet, art is to be seen.
My son and daughter's big dogs are dropped off everyday, as we babysit 'em while they work, plus our own three Labs.
I feel safe enuff!
If you were, you'd have less guns.
I like a gun safe. Concealed and backed with an ADT alarm system. I'm just that way.
I hate gun safes, but I own and use the best one I could afford, for the reasons mentioned by others. It's kind of like art museums not allowing anyone inside. In addition, I have put more nicks in the wood of my nice guns taking them in and out of the safe than I have using them (I know, I need another safe). That said, my choice would be a secure room with no windows. Then I wouldn't even need a cabinet. What constitutes a secure room means different things to different people. Anything can be broken into with enough time, effort, and the right tools. A burglar who does not know that you have valuable guns to steal probably won't come to your home with the right tools to break into a relatively minimum security room in a reasonable amount of time. One who knows what he is after and what he's up against will come prepared, and given enough time, will score. It's about security, insurance, alarms, privacy, fire, and a lot of other issues. You just have to decide what's most important to you that fits into your budget. I know what I want, but can't really justify the cost. As for my guns gathering dust, that's one problem I don't have.
There have been a lot of legitimate reasons given for those who advocate the use of safes and there is no denying a safe is more difficult to break into than a piece of furniture, yet a well designed wood cabinet w/tempered, hardened glass would withstand most efforts at quick entry. As BFrech mentions, the right tools will get you into anything, and a fridge dolly, as someone else mentioned, will just as easily transport a safe out as bring one in. I guess part of my antipathy toward safes, and the general run of arguments for them is that the arguments are in a sense negative: i.e. fire, theft, child entry, prying eyes, etc. We all want assurances and INSURANCE against worst case scenarios. That's ok until we begin to live tentatively or talk apocolyptically and paranoia creeps in. Prudence is one thing, paranoia another. However, everyone needs to confront life's dangers and losses (inevitable, since none of us escape alive) in the fashion that gives them an equable spirit. Finally, Lowell and I agree on one point: a good dog provides both companionship and protection.
Thanks to everyone who volunteered a response. Best, Will
Oh I can see the average Lab "protecting" your guns. More like howyadoin, whatchagotfurme, hepyersef. Chessie? Maybe. No fair chaining your shepherd inside your etagere.
jack
Rabbit! we are alerted to a mouse in the next yard.
Besides, if you are at home and the crooks break in, you had better have something they can steal - other than the baby-grand, or the oils above the fireplace of your rich mother-in-law!
Yeh, labs are great mousers. Just one of their multitude of endearing traits. You move the gun rack so the lab can chase the mouse and you're huntin buddies forever. Don't think for a moment I'm joking.
jack
Yeah, my wife somehow botched the alarm code or was too late one day. Cops came guns drawn, and were immediately charged by our Lab, pounced upon and licked senseless.
These are not attack dogs, but nothing moves or gets by them without a commotion. Your safe Rabbit, doesn't wake you - now does it!
Anyone who "lives in a low crime area," has a dog that "is very protective," does not worry about being the victim of violent crime because "I don't go to dangerous places," is living in a serious case of denial and tempting fate. When it DOES happen to you, it is too late and your cherished family heirlooms are lost forever. Not one house in 100,000 with dogs in this country has a legitimate "guard dog," and even those can be noiselessly neutralized in a matter of seconds. And people who do not legally carried concealed and trust your instincts to "only go to GOOD places" is liveing in a very serious and dangerous stae of denial. When it is YOUR blood on th esidewalk, it is too late.
There is no one on this board who not only seeks but strives for risk more than me. I am sure there are equals, but I doubt there are folks who surpass my love of risk. In previous lives I have ridden bulls, swam with sharks, caught a bobcat with my bare hands, raced cars, done business with the Russian mafia, and dated A LOT of red headed women. As a result I have now had 20 surgeries and parts of my body don't work like they should.
I love flirting with disaster, but I am not stupid when it comes to protecting my things and my life. Well, stupid should be placed with naieve. Unfortunately, I have too much first hand experience with all of the above mentioned things that happen to good people every day, in every country around the world. I would be irresponsible to deny that "lightening would never strike twice" and choose to live with my head burried in the sand.
I would like to say that in a sense I am very glad to hear people make naieve statements as have been made here, because it means you have not been through trial by fire. I sincerely hope you never do, but I do hope you decide to be prepared for when lightening strikes you. When the first occurance makes you finally prepare for a possible second occurance, then you have gone through some serious pain and heartache. I would not wish that feeling on my enemies. Speaking from far too much experience here.
Movement, or sounds from the street, in my neighbor's yard or for that matter - in the next block is all brought to my attention by the dogs(sometimes 5 of 'em) barking.
Having advanced warning, and getting your pistol ready is everything.
Your guns maybe safe, but what about you and yours?
I don't think some of you have dogs!
Movement, or sounds from the street, in my neighbor's yard or for that matter - in the next block is all brought to my attention by the dogs(sometimes 5 of 'em) barking.
I don't think some of you have dogs!
Lowell, A few years ago some folks organized a "neighborhood watch" get together at a house. We live in an area of large lots with the houses well spaced. Two cops came to speak. Between them they had over 30 years as cops. They both said the best thing someone could do to not get robbed was get a dog. In fact, they both said that they had never seen a house burgled that had a dog in their entire career. Jake
In a perfect world, we'd live in a gated community, alarmed to the hilt, dogs, motion dectors and gun safes.
These won't mean a hill of beans, when walking thru a dark parking lot on the wrong side of town.
When ask to "give it up," you'll know your Lefever is safe and sound back home.
I don't see a gated community as a perfect world. What's up with the parking lot on the wrong side of town? Where's the dog in the equation? Where's the safe? Certainly not in the parking lot? Maybe it's back in the perfect world...on top of the hill of beans. Give it up.
If you don't think the gated community a perfect nail pounding world, try board-ups then!
Hounds and harriers, coursers and terriers,
Collies and shepherds and mutts,
Bark loud to challenge us,
Make the vector analysis,
Happily go for our butts.
---Arghie Fuller, "For Better or Verse"
Altho it ain't fun getting your calf notched by old Duke, dogs are generally a commendable lot. All of us have a stock of anecdotal lore chronicling their charm, intelligence, and utility. Most dogs, including those who fall way short in the charm and intelligence department, are motivated by the irresistable impulse to find a paying job. It's been that way since Hector was a pup. Most of the really good positions are with human beings and include perks such as room and board, typically a good deal of affection and respect, and occasionally promotion to the status of family member, so it's not really surprising that these canine careerists promise to worship the ground the boss walks on, to protect and play with the boss'es young'uns, to patrol the boundaries of the boss's patch, and to provide around the clock security services, employing state of the art sensor systems, auditory alarms, and sophisticated interception and deterrence capabilities. For those of us who don't live in gated communities, don't put much faith in those bogus placards announcing "This property protected by ADT", and feel that silhouette lurkers and "We don't call 911" signs are perhaps a bit provocative, a nice doggy looks like a good deal. But taking into account the cost of wages, medical care, licensing, supervisory oversight, morale maintenance and retraining due to turnover, a good safe is a better one.
jack
Rabbit, will your gunsafe let you know, if its your son coming home at 2:30 in the morning, or someone stealin' your hubcaps?
A hint Rabbit, only a cat person would ask - but Lowell, how can you tell the defference!
Concepts I can understand; much better.
Good man!
...but drink plenty of water!
You seemed to get things a little mixed up in copying my reply.
Lowell:
No. Doesn't need to. Childless with alloy wheels. Sissy the greyhound a sound sleeper. Had a B&T Coonhound who would announce your arrival and suggest you depart. Had bloodhound/Airedale X who barked but then she'd wag her tail and roll out the tea trolly. Had a Dachshund who was a royal A.P. Had a Manchester+ who was way over the top on fiercely protective. Need a Lab bad. Also need one of those Nova Scotia Tollers King is always talking about. Need GSHP or GSHP/Lab. Wife says all too high energy; don't need any of them. She is right. What she doesn't know is that some of my best friends at the Sportsmen's Club aren't human.
jack
The safest thing would be to get 5 Labs and a gun safe.
Should the Labs decide to lick the burglars faces there's still a good chance the burglars might slip on a Lab 'pattie' and break their neck while they are carting off your safe.
h0mie, your back!
...and here I said, that you were getting an early jump on the turkey season.
Rabbit, no Lab is high energy!
Some of my friends have pointers, and setters.
Them are high energy - they'll eat your siding, downspouts and wear a path in your yard.
Labs, love a nap!
Long as they don't eat my safe! What you think about phasars, high frequency sound, crocodile moats?
jack
Rabbit, if the phasars don't work, try Photon Torpedoes...Geo
Live long and prosper, George. Perhaps as holographic projection becomes larger and cheaper, the conflicting demands of secretive hoarding and strutting one's stuff will be lessened. We can only hope. In the meantime, I'm telling the guys at the range, some of whom know where I live, that I don't own these guns, I'm just exercising them for their real owners.
jack
The trick Rabbit, is to find a more uppish club - where the Fabbri and Purdey roam. Only the hillbillies covet my guns at the beer, battery and ice box shoots - I attend!
That would be the trick--for me anyway! When it comes to scruple and integrity, there are many indigenous fellers who would fare well by comparison with a limousine-load of fancy Johnnies with Fabbris. A conundrum which won't be solved by a class analysis. Scruple and integrity are where you find them.
jack
Best bet is to cover your guns with camo tape - from snout to butt!
The wealthy do steal from the wealthy - and I won't shed a tear.
...but breaking into another's gunroom, just doesn't happen with this crowd.
you guys are way too entertaining and way too "OT"! AS DAVE SAYS
"STAY ON THE TOPIC"! VOTE ME OUT OF MY TWO STARS AND KEEP FLATULATEING THROUGH THE HOLE HOLE UNDER YOUR NOSE! YOU COULD ALWAYS JOIN A "QUILTING BEE"
MIKE B.
you guys are way too entertaining and way too "OT"! AS DAVE SAYS
"STAY ON THE TOPIC"! VOTE ME OUT OF MY TWO STARS AND KEEP FLATULATEING THROUGH THE HOLE HOLE UNDER YOUR NOSE! YOU COULD ALWAYS JOIN A "QUILTING BEE"
MIKE B.
I need another safe, but cannot afford at the moment. Currently have a 6' tall 42"wide Winchester (read Mieneke safe co.) in a corner of my garage, bolted to concrete floor. Garage door is insulated steel. I call it a garage because of door, it's really my workshop playroom. The garage door stays physically locked so the opener cannot work. If I could I would build a house with a walk in vault, finished as a nice room where I could go in and enjoy my guns without knocking them around in a safe. Enough concrete in walls, ceiling and floor should provide good fire protection. That's my dream that probably shall not come true!
you guys are way too entertaining and way too "OT"! AS DAVE SAYS
"STAY ON THE TOPIC"!
Mike B. -- Aren't you OT in scolding for others for going OT?