I know it's not a double but you guys are the experts I trust.
What are the key points on a 16 ga A5? I can't tell a $500 one from a $1500 one but a local shop has the nicest one I've seen for $799. I don't need it not even sure I want it but if ever I do I think this is it ?
Great original finishes. Darker wood appears hand checkered not blond gloss stuff
Light scroll and Brownings face on the action. Very slender forarm. Crown and circle and 16-70 on left side of barrel. FN browning automatic on hard rubber buttplate

Doesn't sound like the "sweet sixteen". Rather a regular A-5. I have one that belonged to my Grandfather; no money could buy it, but I don't shoot it because it has a "suicide safety" inside the trigger guard I don't like.

The older ones had 2 9/16 chambers and won't eject a 2 3/4 shell. Most of those have been 'converted' by extending the chamber and opening the ejector port. What to shoot in it is problematic. The spring and friction rings were adjustable for "high and low brass" shells which doesn't mean anything anymore. Yours seems to be a newer one with 2 3/4 chambers (at least that's what the barrel is) with the 16/70 marking.

You have to experiment. High enough pressure to eject is necessary, but too much will split the fore-end wood. You'll have to get used to the double shuffle ejection business too...Geo

I once had a gentleman bring me a nice early 16ga Browning A5 which he had on trial. He had shot it & it had jammed. The barrel was plainly marked 2 3/4" but I knew the gun should have been from the 2 9/16" era. Examination showed the barrel was a replacement & the receiver had not been modified. I explained to him what would be required to make it function with regular 2 3/4" shells & he decided to pass on it & wait for another, which I thought was a smart move. If you plan to use 2 3/4" shells be certain the receiver is compatible. On the A5 just changing barrels is not enough.

The gun in question is a 2-3/4" gun. The 16-70 on the barrel refers to guage and chamber length in mm. 70mm = 2-3/4".

If it is a sweet sixteen (lightweight) it will be marked so and have a gold trigger and have holes drilled in the barrel's magazine ring.

If the gun is in very nice condition and is not messed with, that price sounds reasonable to me.

I have on old one with the front triger and a solid rib. It looked like it was re-blued and the stock (and recoil pad) were a disaster. I got it for abut $200 plus the credit from cheap .22 I won at an NRA dinner.

Redid the stock. It now is my "Go To" gun for for second season doves. Choked full and it really reaches out there. I eaven take it to the sporting clay range sometimes for fun.

It must have been modified at the factory becuase it shoot just about any 16 ga load I put it it flawlessly.

Re: Forends. A slpit A5 forend is typical. I have repaired several. I use epoxy and fiberglass window screen. IMO they break mostly becuase they were shot without the forend cap being tightened.

The above are just my thoughts, but a tread about an A-5 16 ga makes me happy to chime in!

Jerry

The standard weight 16's are very nice, if a bit (obviously) heavy.

The engraving was cut very deep on the older guns, and as you mention the checkering was very well done.

It is likely a 2 3/4" gun, but as mentioned you should verify.

They are fun to shoot. The gun is alive, and the action working has a certain charm after you get used to it and learn to appreciate the genius of the design.

A couple things... it's a recoil operated gun. You can adjust the friction by changing the rings to the correct orientation. The beveled edge of the bronze friction piece should be toward the muzzle, and for just about any shell made today the other ring should be stowed below the barrel spring and not used.

Very light loads are not good for the gun. This is because to get them to function, the spring steel clip needs to be removed from around the bronze friction piece. The bad part is that the bronze piece also controls the speed of return to battery and without the clip the barrel comes forward with more speed. Thus the cracked fore stocks.

It's not heavy shells that crack fore stocks, it's the speed of the barrel returning to battery and the actual recoil of the shell has nothing to do with that. The barrel spring is compressed the same amount by any shell that fully drives the action rearward, thus is has the same stored energy. The friction system acts much like a recoil buffer on the return stroke.

Shooting the thing with the bronze piece removed will almost guarantee a cracked fore stock. I'm pretty sure this is why we see so many of them with cracks. It's easier to remove the friction piece than to clean the gun, and indeed a few used A-5's are found on the rack with that piece missing.

Everyone should own at least 1 FN Browning A5. As Shotgunjones stated the guns feel alive. They just work, I've got an early 60's Light Twelve 26" imp cyl that I use to hunt and fun sporting clays, can't seem to miss and gun handles very well.
Sound like the one you are looking at is pretty nice, here is a pretty long thread over on Shotgun World that may help you with a time frame and give you an idea what to look for. As far as price,799 if all original and excellent shape is an ok price, 50 to 100 bucks less would be better.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=216472

Picked up this one a few weeks ago, first year,all original,1903, serial 2182.

I seem to recall the better/older ones had screws not pins when you look at the bottom of the action.

http://www.gun-tests.com/special_reports...ml#.VIGoA8mmXIo

No pad FN @ 799 seems reasonable-take a look at GB and see what they are going for.Be sure to check the forearm for a crack-very common and not a deal killer but might help in valuing it.

Peoples likes & dislikes being so variable I personally do not feel there is any item, shotgun or otherwise, which has ever been built that "Everyone should own at least 1". "MY" personal feeling on the A5 is that in the Sweet 16 version it has about the best feel & balance of any once barreled repeater made. Then I shot one, my uncles sweet 16, & felt that "Live Action" of the barrel flopping around like a dying snake in the grass.
At that point I lost all desire to "Get Used To" that certain charm of that flopping barrel. Having shot a few others over the years, all belonging to someone else :Fortunately", my opinion has not changed. I am fully aware that many folks used them & swore by them, & still do, but they're just not for me as long as my old Lefever SxS holds out & I am quite certain it's going to outlive me.

They are very popular in these parts. I get them in quite often for not cycling. The fix is always the same, a good cleaning and proper friction ring set up. I kinda like them but have never carried on in the field as there is always a double at hand.

Anyone care to hazard a guess at the value of a Belgian A5 12 ga. magnum? I was given one in mint condition; looks like it was never used. Ser No 72V-xxxxx

I have an A5 Light 12 in mint condition built in 1963 and in the hard case and I value it at $1,000
Jim

My SC's Fun gun is a A-5 Magnum (Jap) with 32" barrel. The gun wouldn't function with standard target loads using the Mag spring and rings. I replaced with a standard spring and tension ring and now it works fine. As for prices....they are all over the place.

I don't know if it is possible at this time, but, Browning used to sell the
"Stalker" composite stocks, which, could be fitted to an older A5, and didn't crack. Either the store bought version of the "Stalker" or an older A5 with the new stock and a Hasting's barrel, are a pretty decent do it all gun for a guy who only has one.
I have my Dad's A5 that he bought new, when he made Sergeant in the USMC in 1952, fitted with one of the plastic stocks, and a lefty safety. Dad had a variety of Hasting's barrels and the original solid rib barrel. The original wood is here, someplace, but it is pretty beat up and has about a 12 3/4" LOP. I don't think the gun is actually worth all that much, but, I wouldn't take $10,000 for it.
He hunted pheasants and later, ducks and geese with it, all of my life.

Best,
Ted

I used to have the same opinion as Miller.

The A-5 sort of grew on me after I found a decent 'light twelve' in a used rack for a reasonable price.

My favorite is indeed the 'sweet sixteen'. I finally found one with a 28" vent barrel and decent metal finish. Mr. Garvin recut the checkering and refinished the stock, and old Jess down in TX provided three beautiful concentric stainless steel choke tubes for it.

It looks very nice, it handles extremely well, and is now as versatile as any modern auto. Function is 100% with Fiocchi GT or GP loads.

Whenever I shoot it, I always chuckle. It jumps a bit, things go 'sproing'. The levers, cogs, and inclined planes do their thing, and a target breaks or a bird drops.

What could be more fun...

The first repeater I ever hunted with was a A-5, and I have few of them in 12,16, & 20. They range from around 1911 to 1959 in age and I have never had a minutes trouble with them.

A 12ga Auto 5 was the first really decent shotgun I ever had after a Savage 220A single shot 20 ga & an ancient Stevens 311 16 ga double & I killed my first deer with an Auto 5 slug gun so naturally I like them. The double shuffle recoil never bothered me & if maintained properly they are very reliable

One thing that I rarely see mentioned re. the Auto 5 is that the slug gun makes a dandy home defense shotgun as with the magazine cut off engaged you can have the bolt open & chamber empty with 4 shells in the magazine & when you open the magazine cutoff & the bolt closes on a live cartridge the sound is almost as intimidating as a Winchester 97 being shucked & just as quick to get into action.

I capsized with two buddies in six fathoms an hour before daylight in a bad spot 300 metres from shore in howling snow squalls just before Christmas six years ago and an A-5 was among guns that went to the North Atlantic bottom.

After a couple unsuccessful diving attempts because of bad weather and currents, I retrieved my SW and the A-5 covered in orange rust and slub. My buddy loaded three in the A-5 and it worked perfectly.

The first gun I bought with my own money ($125) was a like new, used Sweet 16.

Good to see your posts again King. You are missed when we do not hear from you for a coupla weeks...Geo

I've got a couple. Quail killing machines, for sure!

I bought mine at the Quantico VA USMC PX in 1964-- light 12 with gold plated trigger, 28" mod ventilated rib barrel $135.00 Had Briley install the 17-4 ph stainless tubes for steel shot back in 1990- ugly as homemade poop, but other than my "pet" Model 12's- one hellofa reliable and deadly on live bird target shotguns- Not For Sale either- used it for layout shooting many years ago- trickiest of all the waterfowling shots- divers coming in low at Mach 4 plus in a squall-eaaier to shoot when reclining in a Nov. snowsquall in a layout boat that shucking a pump-IMO damn fine shotgun, a real workhorse-like a Parker Trojan..

Here's some old stuff from the past. Not a magnum but did fine with the depicted 2 3/4" #4 1 3/8 oz. Blue Dot driven AA reloads when a duck was best shot dead with lead.

I don't even like A5s and I bought one just because...

Belgian Light 12, mid-70s, 28" VR Mod.

Back to the original post - "Light scroll and Brownings face on the action." Is it possible that this gun is some sort of commemorative model? Have you been able to identify the year it was made? Is it a Belgium gun?

In 1934 or so they added a bust of Browning between trade mark to the side of receiver, light scroll engraving was also added later, here is a poor example, been reblued but gives an idea.

a 16 ga A5 is a very special gun. it was built around the shell size and as such are as petite and svelt as a 16ga model 12.

I've never understood the aversion to the early safety. it's in the same location and works the same way as an M1 Garand and nobody ever had a problem with those under conditions much more tense than hunting. and it's the fastest location of all excepting top of the tang like on a double. nor is it any more dangerous than a safety in any other location. if one's finger stays off the trigger until the sights are on target, as one should, it's not an issue. if one walks around with his finger on the trigger all the time, no "safety" is safe enough, and nobody with any sense would hunt with him.

fnb, I acknowledge what you say and I still don't like the M-1 style safety on my 16ga A-5. Big fingers maybe?...Geo

Interesting follow-on to this thread after my post of several days ago. Was "working" as a picker-upper with my dog yesterday at a local pheasant tower shoot. A man walked by with a high condition "A5. I complemented him on the gun and said "It's not a Browning, it's an Ithica 745". Never heard of such a beast before

TUDURGS, how about the old browning patent "sweet 16 pump":



Well, its really a Savage 520 16ga, but I've been thinking of getting some new engraving to make it a Browning Sweet-16...Geo

Me neither- and he doesn't even know that his hybrid shotgun is an IthAca, NOT an IthIca, by the way- I stopped the tower shoots unless it is a private members only shoot and I know the guys-waaay too many dudes with closed actions going out to the stands, or moving between after the tower lads blow the horn-- and when you ask them to please leave the action open on their shotgun, they act offended. Murphy's Law just awaiting an riposte!!

How about Savage 745?

The Browning auto design was licensed all over the world.

The Savage 520 has a similar receiver profile, as the pix shows.

I never understood the term 'humpback'.

The swept profiled repeaters should be called 'humpback', and the Browning profile a 'sharpback' or 'squareback'. Go figure.

My Bad. Should have said "Savage 745.

the savage 520 was a JMB design. the later 620 just a variation of it. no such thing as an Ithaca 745. shotgunjones is correct in that it was a savage, and was the successor to the 720.

the savage 720 was more nearly an exact copy of the A5 than the Remington model 11 was. I've had 720's and A5's apart at the same time and there are numerous parts I was able to interchange. Remington changed EVERYTHING at least a little.

George,
as much as i'll stand behind how much sense the early safety makes and how fast and easy it is to use and how much I love Garands, I absolutely HATE it on an auto-5.

it's interesting that the back-of-trigger-guard location was used by both Remington and Savage, predating that location on the Browning by what, 30 and 10 years respectively at least?

I haven't read all the pages and this may have been covered, but the Belgium guns are worth more than the others. A vent or solid rib adds value as well as being a light weight.

Actually that's a Stevens 520 not a Savage 520. I've got a 522 (Trap Grade) with a straight stock (Hell of a piece of wood in it too) and a 32 inch solid rib barrel. I believe it's my favorite pump gun, even over a Winchester 97 or Model 12.

I've looked a 32 inch 20 gauge for years but only ever seen them listed in the catalogs. They shot 3 inch shells, though they were before the true "magnum" era. I'd even take a 30 inch if it had a rib, though they all seem to be 28 inch.

The Savage Auto5 Clone is a decent gun. You oddly don't see many of them, though they made quite a few. I've never owned one but a buddy in High School shot a lot of game with one he had that was marked Western Auto.

Destry

Right Destry, but actually what it is is a Montgomery Ward model 30, says so right on the side. Of course its also a STEVENS model 520. But when I get around to having it engraved as a Browning Sweet 16 Pump, then what will it be?...Geo

Is the Savage Auto-5 clone the one with the knurled barrel end and no handle on the action?...Geo

Geo, I think that is a Winchester 1911 "widow maker"

"Widow Maker" is the right name for it whoever made it. When I was a kid I spent a morning in a duck blind with an older fellow who had one. He hadn't the arm strength anymore to reach up and pull to cycle the action, so he'd put the gun butt on the floor of the blind, lean over the gun and push down with both hands. I cringed every time he did it...Geo

George, slightly off topic but your story reminds me of one I heard on the Winchester 97, cold hands and that exposed hammer were responsible for sinking many a duck boat.