Gentlemens:

Rather than clutter up the "new Lefever" thread I thought it best to start anew.

I am fairly new to the work of the beloved Uncle Dan. Would you good folk share some pictures of the guns we are talking about recreating?

Much obliged,

Glenn

Optimus Grade

Pete

nothing like starting at the top!

This is a bit more blue collar compared to those posted but I like it. 1902 EE.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h125/nitromainia/ParkerLefever20.jpg 20 bore EE Syracuse C. 1912

To bad Dan didn't understand money, he did know guns!
bill

Here is the catalog description of the EE, a $115 item. Sears best farm wagon was only $40 at the time. They go out their way to take pride in the engraving.


Can't remember who posted it on the Lefever forum. This is a wonderfully restored DS 16ga.



A 14ga Barber-Lefever. He eventually built only hammerless guns, but the lines of the receiver and barrels pretty much stayed the same as his early work. The thumb release on this one is a nice touch.


Pete

Ducky old F; even more blue collar.



jack

The DS is "Upgraded" not restored. A DS had no engraving.

Ah Glenn: ya could have called me. I'll loan you my Lefever book. Until then here's my contribution.

20 gauge DS grade, restored by Buck Hamlin.

Gentlemens:

Well, color me impressed! Thank you all for posting those. 'Tis easy to see what the fuss is all about! I know of the mechanical qualities and the inovative work of Mr. Lefever, but there is no hiding the fact that the man had a wee bit of artist wiring in him. Wonderfully graceful lines. I did notice that they borrowed an engraver from Parker to put a football on the side of Mr. Rabbit's gun. <g>

I am begining to think that my pet stock blank is a bit over the top for such an elegant piece.

Did most have the semi pistol grip stock?

Can you give me a rough rundown of the grading system used by Lefever?

Much obliged to you all,

Glenn

Doug:

I didn't see your post. I musta been blinded by the brilliance of all those stars you have. Now I know where mine went to...

For a lever, that is a dandy. I really like that fine scroll engraving. 'Tis me favorite. Man, it would take hours to sculpt those chevrons on there. Is this from your Optimus?

I would have asked to borrow your book but I thought you might consider a lowly cheddarhead unworthy to gaze upon it. I am not good at rejection.

Glenn

Stocks were available in; Straight, full (capped) or semi (capped or uncapped) pistol grips. The DS I believe was only available in uncapped semi pistol. The Capped full grip seems to me to be the most commonly encountered in other grades.
There was listed a "One Thousand Dollar Grade" going down from there were; Optimus, AA, A thru I inclusive with the DS being identical to the I. The Ds was the one actually listed in LAC catalogs with the I apparently being mostly sold through SD&G outlet.

Obviously Glenn has not been around us Parker guys enough. He obviously doesn't know a football from a turnip. We have a kind of an attachment to our turnips and don't like them to be referred to as "footballs".

The lower grade Lefever guns had better bird engraving than the D and lower Parkers(dogs werent bad though). The Parkers had little detail and while I agree the Lefever ducks were funny looking I kind of like the look. The early (55333)GH Parker pictured has about the best G grade engraving I have seen.

Gentlemens:

Thanks again for the education. I sure don't recall high school being this much fun.


Mr. eightbore:

Please accept my humble appologies to both you and your vegetables. I stand corrected.

Respectfully,

Glenn

Ol' Uncle Dan had a realists attitude.... My favorite is the Lefever Version of the "Dead and Falling Duck" I think this is on the later catalogs as well... Make my 20 Bore 3" Cham. 30" imp mod and full please.... Oh' and as long as we are fantasising, ....an extra set of 28 Bore 28" Cylinder and Open Mod... I'll have Gournet Bulino a Grouse on the other side of the Dead Duck... Cool! This is powerful fun stuff innit?

"Please accept my humble appologies to both you and your vegetables. I stand corrected".

Sorry eightbore.........but Glenn I just fell out of my chair!

I am hoping to have some nice pictures of an H and G that are being worked on by early July. Although, my photography in the past has been a disaster. Both guns were in very poor shape and are being restored or upgraded. Will post when they are done.
jas

Who did the engraving work on these guns? It reminds me of engraving I have seen on other guns from this period.

those are some beautiful guns. I think I like the one from Bill G best.

I would say that Doug is well on his way to a Lefever. It looks like he only needs a few more parts to complete it. Now, I don't know if I would have started with a top lever!
Chris

Chris, actually I have the rest of the gun! Somewhere

Doug,
I knew that, just giving you a hard time. Maybe a little push to finish the restoration. I'd like to see it all together.
Chris

Here is the type of gun I think one would want to end up with-----------albiet in maybe a lower grade.

Yep, Daryl. That'll do.

Glenn

Check out this link to the LeFever forum. Its easier than re-posting all of my photos. This is a 12 gauge Optimus. Other than the gauge I believe this is the design they are talking about.

http://lefeverforum.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=76

DrBob,

Thanks for posting the link to your Optimus here. I took another look. These are the only Optimus photos that I have seen showing the checkering in such detail. I would guess that like other things the checkering on every Optimus was unique. Yours has some really magnificent checkering work.

Pete

For Terry Buffum

The one with acorns chissled into those "balls", or "breasts", if you prefer is precious. Ole Uncle Dan and his family must have had roots in Thurnigen.

Well the one engraver that I can name for sure is Albert E. Spangler who appears to have started working for Lefever in 1887 at the Syracuse plant.

Pete

Does anyone else find the stepped side plate to be a distraction? I love the clean lines more than the step line. Almost like it detracts from the engraving.

Personally I like them...has character and geometric interest to me, but each to their own.

I agree with KY Jon, the stepped side plates just do not look right!

Craig

Is the large slot on the side plate a cocking indicator? And I agree with Craig and Jon about the step in the side plate; I think it would be more attractive without it.

The only version of the stepped sideplates shown in the various pictures that doesnt' look completely in conflict with the gun to me is the one on the first page of this thread that PeteM posted with acorns on the fences. The step has a tighter radius and is pushed forward a bit unlike the large radius "clipped tip" look of the others.

Is there precedent for the step? Mark of Uncle Dan? Necessity of fabrication enshrined? Can't imagine the latter as he seems to have gotten along without it in the lower grades. Every time I see this, the phrase "wood must follow metal" runs thru my mind. Curiously demanding of attention? I'd call that a distraction.

jack

In the new LC Smith book, there's a early Quality 7 hammerless gun with the stepped sideplate and also an A2. Further into the book is a custom ordered gun with the sideplate steps. Seems to have been something to have at the time.

Elliot briefly mentions Jacob Glahn and possibly his sons; A.E. Spangler and perhaps his brother Wilton; L. Delunsch; R.A. Arthur; possibly Frank Mason and sons Roy and Max; and R. Kornbrath. The Syracuse city directory shows at least 20 engravers, circa 1888. There were a number of gun makers in operation there as well other businesses that would have employed engravers. How many DM Lefever employed at any one time is unclear.

Elliot talks about every other feature of the Lefever guns and never mentions the step, at least that I can find. The earliest photo of a step is a Nichols & Lefever hammer gun. The partnership lasted from 1876-79. The lowest grade there is a photo of with the step is a C grade.

Also, the radius seems to change without rhyme or reason. I prefer the radius of the "acorn gun" as well.

On some of the Optimus guns, there is a circular horn insert with an ivory pin in the middle. Elliot states that was an attempt to prevent the wood from cracking as it did on the LC Smith's. Whether he has documentation for that or it is his opinion is unclear.

Pete

My "C" grade has triangular horn inserts behind the lockplates where the wood makes it's transition from flat to rounded. I have an "E" grade trap or pigeon gun that has ivory dots behind the plates. these are factory and not an attempt to hide a "pin". There may be something to Uncle Dan's theory about stress relief and checking in this area as neither of these guns shows any sign of checking, whereas I have seen quite a few lesser grade lefevers that have developed a slight check in this area. It is almost never a real crack as L.C.s develop.
All the best, Mal

I am with Chuck on the steps, I think they look great and add to the gun.

Thanks, Jeff G.

gil;
Not sure what slot you are referring to. Only slot I see is the slot in screw head of lock plate screw. The cocking indicators are round pins which protrude when gun is cocked. The indicators in these views can be seen either in or just above the oval in engraving scenes, above the dogs. In one view the upper edge of the oval incorporates the indicator pin. On some is just above & on others inside, depending upon size of the oval.