Even though there were hundreds if not thousands of "gun makers" in England, Scotland, and Ireland it seems most did not make the actions but purchased them in the white. Actions were quite complex and small shops seldom had the machinery, time, or skill to produce them. Let's try to compile a list of known action makers. I'll begin with my short list. Please add to it.

E.C. Hodges
Joseph Brazier (Ashes)
W. & C. Scott
W. W. Greener
A. A. Brown
Purdey
Holland & Holland
Westley Richards
Boss
BSA
Peter Webley

Joe-

Interesting question. Thank you for bringing it up.

What about forgings VS actions?

I would bet that Henry Atkin, Stephen Grant, James Woodward, Joseph Lang, John Dickson, William Powell, Alex Henry and many other companies filed up their own actions from raw forgings - at least on their signature, top-quality guns.

I wonder about the forgings, though. There must have been just a few companies supplying those to the trade.

OWD

"Incredibly complex" is not how I would describe a double shotgun action. Even the most sophisticated self opener, the Beesley action, is fairly simple compared to other mechanical apparatus, like a watch, for instance.

Gunmakers have convinced their public that their product is complex to justify an upward spiralling price.

A Ferrari is incredibly complex, and goes for 150 USD a kilo, while a comparatively simple SXS best sidelock goes for 50 000 USD per kilo.

Fogings were beyond the scope of gunmakers, requiring heavy machiney and an industrial location. Some machining was done in house. Greener mentions and advocates the use of machine tools.

In later years the machining was outsourced and some firms made a name as the suppliers of machined actions to the "trade". I think the most famous of them were Philipsons. Speaking from personal experience I saw cast Dickson receives displayed by a Dutch investment casting firm in a defence exhibit. The same firm, if I recall, had castings of the Greener GP receiver.

The arrival of CNC machines, which are enclosed, therefoe quieter and cleaner, have brought machining back in house.

A few names that come to mind are

W.R. Pape of Necastle-on-Tyne
Armstrong " " " "
C.W. Ebrall of Shrewsbury
George Higham Liverpool
W Richards "
Trulock & Harris Dublin

I have a Joseph Lang hammer gun made in 1883, which has the back of the action stamped with the mark of Richard Redman. Redman was very prolific in making forgings/in the white actions for the gun trade.

Dickson built some A&D guns and all Round actions in house. Rigby did as well with the rising bite.

Of all the books I’ve read on the English shotgun that is one well kept secret. However, if you tear the action apart there has to be a name or initials in there somewhere. But, should rough forgings supplied by an unknown shop even be considered in the process or should only the action maker and the action filer be recognized? Or neither?
What about in the muzzleloading period. Did the known makers rely EXCLUSIVELY on trade locks or were they too purchased as rough forgings and filed by one shop then sold finished by a third shop??

It's all just dreamed up speculation at best.

Seems like a question for Hillary Clinton...

And her answer would be "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE"

SKB, I know you have been working on these guns a long time and are highly qualified but where would a layman, like me, find out that kind of information? The reason I ask is I've always said that John Dickson & Son build their own round actions but couldn't prove it. I'm thinking that you have over the years torn a these guns apart and have seen for yourself that no other hand other than Dickson was involved.

Shotgunlover-

Yeah - we know, there's nothing to it, it's all just a big swindle.

Then you show us that "thing" you developed/made. Cruder than a single shot H&R, and not nearly as practical or useful.

There appears to be a huge gap between saying and doing...

OWD

Bentley and Playfair were big makers to the trade.
J. Wilkes is stamped inside the action of a Dougall patent Richard Jeffery gun I have.

There should be a book on Dickson fairly soon, but I would doubt they made their A and D actions.

I owned a Dickson A&D once, very plain gun but nicely finished throughout as you would expect. Every single bit including the action bar was neatly stamp with Dickson's mark.

In my personal opinion the largest unseen hand in the gun manufacturing business through a lot of the Victorian era and part of the first quarter of the nineteenth centaury was the Brazier family from the Wolverhampton area. Who made locks and actions for many of the top line London makers also a lot of the better quality provincial makers, and not all the parts they supplied had the Brazier name or initials on them. And of course a company of the same name are still into supplying gun parts to the trade today.

That's the problem damascus, nobody puts their name or initials on anything.

I would assume you would have to go directly to the Company’s workbooks and see where they are receiving either the rough forgings or preliminary or otherwise filed actions or locks. But, how many companies had their hands on these actions or locks prior to sending them on to be fitted to the finished gun? Do we at least know that?

Obsessed,

I have my share of best guns, which cost a pile of money.

Objectively speaking I cannot see how a SXS can cost more than a Hasselblad camera on the grounds of mechanical refinement. The camera is just as refined, much more accuracy intensive than the locks of the finest sidelock.It costs 1/10 of a medium English gun.

To cite Bruce Owen, production manager of Purdeys, who wrote an article in Shooting Sportsman some years ago: do the financial benefits of adopting computerised machining tickle down to the retail buyer? That is a question for the marketing department, he wrote. The implications are sobering.

The "crude thing" I made has no pretensions to be anything other than a super simple side by side, an action stripped of any feature not absolutely necessary. You could have read as much in the text that accompanied the pics. And it can be converted to a self cocking action with intercepting safeties with no hand fitting and special tools, and no trip to the factory.

Where are your ceations for us to compare?

I have a Harkom A&D on the bench now, no doubt about it.....made in house and so marked.

SKB- when I saw the Dickson Round Action casting I wrote to Dicksons and they confirmed that their action body was investment cast in Holland. I believe shortly after they stated so in their brochures.

There is also a report from the Shooting Times (UK) of Round Action locks being made by York and Wallin the lockmakers. I have it in PDF form if you want to read it. Costwise the lock represented about 1/10 of the price of a finished gun back then.

I have no problem with either investment casting or any maker farming out work to specialists. But it gets sticky when things are said to be totally "in house" and they are not.

Bentley and Playfair offered complete guns to the trade, or offered barreled actions with forend iron and furniture for a "gunmaker" to finish up. One example was a complete gun for approx. 31 pounds and the same gun in barreled action form to be finished up by the "gunmaker" for 18 pounds.

Concerning Rigby guns and rifles for the period of 1890 to 1914 -
Actions came from Osborne, L&L Pryse, Webley & Scott, P. Webley & Son, Saunders, Bentley & Playfair, Ellis & Son and others.

Their Best guns and rifles (until about 1906) were made on their vertical bolt actions (rising bites). Four "workshops"- Wheeler, Phillipson, Hill and Wall were the "barrel filer and actioners." There is no surviving information (that I am aware of) that establishes Rigby provided those workshops with forgings.

Steve-

Very interesting info. Thank you for sharing it.

Do you know what being a "barrel filer and actioner" meant back then?

Were they finishing off the bbls and joining them to completed actions?

Or were they building barrels from scratch, machining & filing up forgings into completed actions, and then mating the two?

Did Rigby continue offering their rising-bit action after 1906?

Thanks again,

OWD

Steve, have you found any information re the Philipsons? Like recent address etc. My searches have turned a blank.

The web of craftsmen involved in making a double was and is extensive in most gunmaking centers in Europe. This tends to deflate the notion that "in house" is somehow better.

Most gunmaking centers by custom allow craftsmen to have a second job. I have seen this in th UK, Spain and in Italy. When I ordered my SXS that was based on ideas set down by Gough Thomas, therefore not doable with the usual machining, I looked around for a willing maker. Castellani took on the job. However, the actioning was done by the Zanotti actioner. Bareling was done by someone else, engraving by Poli whose dayjob was at Beretta, the stocking by a lady who worked in her house, and the finishing by Castellani senior. This was usual in Gardone in the 80s.

The point is who takes responsibility for the finished product and carries it through proof and does any warranty work. That person/firm is the maker and entitled to stamp their name on it. Nothing wrong with that if we all know the score.

The best Holland I ever handled was reputedly built for a royal.It was displayed in an antique "salon" who allowed me to remove the locks and photograph the gun. The locks were stamped ASHES, the Brazier trade mark. I would bet that the barrel blacking was done in Wolverhampton and the color case hardening by Saint Ledger the elder. Still a Holland though!

Obsessed -
First - I had a 'senior moment' with 1906. I meant 1912. Only a very few were sold after that date. The "Top lever (new pattern)
ejector appeared in the books in 1910. I assume that was the "screw grip." Later in the books, it was identified as the "screw grip."

I wish I knew what "barrel filer and actioner" meant - but I don't.

Shotgunlover,
No address - just their name in the "Barrel filer and actioner" column of the serial number ledger.

Steve thank you.

I have heard the Philipsons name in connection with current production but cannot for the life of me remember where!

Actioner is the man who fits and assembles the action. Again, from the Shooting Times of old, there is a piece on one of the geat actioners within living memory, Bill Mealey, with a wondeful picture of his gnarled hands daintily fitting a lock spring. After many totally amateur tries at lock making, I know how hard it is to do it right. It is all stuff they do not teach you in metal work at school.

HomelessJoe, In all the years you and I have shared this board, I do not think you have ever written anything I thought constructive or useful. However, on this point you and I are in agreement, it must be Christmas!

One does need to be careful here - action forgings from the like so of Phillipson were bought by the gun trade at large, bigger factories made their own for a time. One must not confuse the making of the forging with the filing up of the action.

All the manufacturing companies, and many small firms had actioners, whose job it is/was to make the basic gun into a gun shape from forged parts. Buoying barrelled actions, part-finished or completely finished guns from major factories took of in a major way in the 1880s. It was not uniform. Everyone did what they wanted on a particular order.

How it all starts- this is the wooden prototype that later became the Churchill Zenith. The photo was sent to me by the late colleague Geoffrey Boothroyd. This is the actual factory model made to test the barrel to action joint.

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This is the prototype I made using 3D printing that Obsessed with doubles found "crude". This is made of plastic, aluminum and cheap wood to test ergonomics. Technology does make some things easier.

[img:left]http://[/img]

Smallbore,

Over the years I have been in many gun factories and workshops and the only one where I saw foging take place was Fratelli Rizzini in Italy. Even then it was forging lumps on barrel stubs. Forging a whole action body would, and I am guessing, need a pretty heavy hammer forge and make huge vibrations and noise for the staff and neighbors. Which makers would have such large facilities to forge their own actions?

Offhand I would speculate that W.&C. Scott did, Greener, and perhaps others in Birmigham. The facilities of Holland on the North Circular road and Purdeys' in Paddington, I wonder how they would use a steam hammer there. But it has been a while since I was in London and maybe they have bigger places now.

With modern means, you can start from billets and EDM wire erode the shape pretty fast with minimal fuss, noise or fumes. I wonder if it is going that way.

Quote:
"Forging a whole action body would, and I am guessing, need a pretty heavy hammer forge and make huge vibrations and noise for the staff and neighbors. Which makers would have such large facilities to forge their own actions?"

Unrelated but perhaps useful information. Years ago when I worked for International Harvester in Ft Wayne, on a clear night you could hear their drop forge in operation. I lived over 10 miles from the drop forge location. Yes it was that loud.

But couldn't a usable forging be made using a heavy trip hammer and multiple heatings? Seems to me some of the old time blacksmiths could have accomplished it on anvil. Rough, yes but a usable beginning for an action filer.

Actually Smallbore in his thread re springs shows some informative pics of EDM and CAM technology used by Purdeys. It looks like they profile the actions from forged pieces using EDM wire eroders.

Those forged pieces do not resemble the action forgings I worked with in the past, which were much closer in shape to the finished article. These things are HUGE!

It is worth a look, definitely.

Some miscellaneous thoughts on forging -

In 2012, I spent some time with Gottfried Prechtl at his home/business in Birkenau, Germany. For the side by side guys - he makes Mauser bolt-actions. During dinner, he explained that
his machining time to produce an action, bolt and bottom metal is 89 hours. That process reduces ("making chips" as he described it) a 14.5 kilo piece of metal 1350 grams. A century plus ago, using forgings, Prechtl said Mauser could do the same thing in 50 hours.

I believe that Alexander Henry used forgings for at least some his falling block single-shot rifles (Patent No.1071 of 1865). When I was collecting single-shots, I had the occasion to handle two of those forgings.

One post suggested that William Powell & Son may have forged their actions. Powell's Patent No.1163 of 1864 (the lift-up lever) has been the subject of my attention for some years. Early Powell cartridge guns generally used Smith, Brazier or "Lefaucheux" actions. Powell hammer and A&D lifter actions are scaled - 12-b smaller than 10-b, etc. From c.1874, Powell used many Westley Richards related patents such as the dolls-head extension, Deeley and Anson forend bolts, Deeley ejectors, Anson safeties as well as A&D patent actions. The only surviving Powell records are the serial number and day books. Thus, we'll never know for sure but Westley Richards (or their source) may have been Powell's source.

Comments on the Birmingham Trade.
Most of the forgings used by the English gun trade came from Forge shops located in the Black Country towns, adjacent to Birmingham. For example; Dudley, Halesowen, WestBromwich, Wolverhampton, Wednesbury & Cradley Heath. Industry located in these towns were also major suppliers of gun locks and barrels to the English gun trade.
By the 1950s Webley and Scott were the principal supplier of,"In the White," A&D actions to the British trade trade.
There were how ever at least two companies located in the Birmingham Gun Quarter that specialised in making Machined actions "In the White" for the trade. Namely Phillipson and Nephew and J.Astbury. By comparison to Webley their production would have been small scale and was perhaps focused on the side lock action.
Companies such as S.Wright and Son, also located in Birmingham, made actions and complete guns for companies such as Churchill[Box locks],Rodda, Hilsdon, Radcliff, Gallyon and a host of other well known names.
W&C.Scott, W.W.Greener, B.S.A. Westley Richards all had in house capability to manufacture actions for their own guns and guns of others.
In the 1970's I visited A.A.Brown and at that time they were extremely proud of the fact that despite their limited production they made all major components of their fine guns in house.

Steve, interesting to read the calculations, 89 hours of "making chips" to go from 14 kilos to 1. In getting estimates for my prototype, which in some parts is more intricate than a Mauser action, the estimate of CNC machine time was one 8 hour shift to go from a cylindrical billet to the finished product.

As new technology becomes more widely available more processes are brought inhouse, a look at Boxall and Edminston's site shows just how much of the "heavy lifting" is now centralised in one shop.

Ironic that new technology will make the question "who made it" obsolete!

Gunmaking is a fascinating business.

Double posting deleted

I hope I've not missed a name while I was reading through the posts here but didn't Holloway manufacture actions for the trade .?
I'd guess that it's an unclear subject too, as some makers had made their own actions at one point but opted to buy in at other times.
There's also the possibility of a firm buying in barrelled actions or complete guns for their cheaper models but still making their best guns in house.

Spot on Roy

I have a WJ Jeffrey BLNE wildfowler made in 1937. According to Douglas Tate's book, guns sold under the Jeffrey name were made by Leonard. Did Leonard make their own actions, or did they contract from the Trade for the bits? I have not had the gun apart, did Leonard have any identifiers marked on parts?

Dickson built the round-action completely in house up to 1963 the last one leaving the workshop on 26th July at a cost of £527 10s. A work diary belonging to John Dickson reveals that all the skills were in house to build the guns - stockers, barrel and lock makers, actioners and even an engraver in the early years but case making was outsourced to a specialist in Edinburgh.

By 1963 the skilled workforce was retired and the demand was just not there for such an expensive product.

Since then Dicksons have used a number of specialist out workers to complete round-action orders, the next foray being with their former employee, David McKay Brown who built three round-actions (on Phillipson machinings, he had his own workforce to complete the rest)for them in 1985. The next set of round-action actions were machined up by Verenigde Geweermaker in Holland (now the new Lebeau Corrally?). Starting with No. 8000 in 1989, the guns were finished in the UK, but the relationship was short lived due to quality issues.

Since then the small production has been mixed between the team Dicksons have in Dunkeld and a number of specialist out workers. 'Pugwash' on this board has even actioned a few. The foray of Dicksons into the modern O/U world was also short lived, five guns being 'built' by Rizzini in Italy and finished in the UK between 2008 and 2010. The cost to built them far outstripped the retail cost, never again they said!

As for boxlocks, the records indicate the 4 digit serial number guns were a mix of built in house (when round-action orders were slow) and guns made up by Webley, S. Wright, Holloway etc. Most of the names mentioned in this thread as 'guns in the white' suppliers.

The five digit serial number boxlocks were completely made by suppliers in Birmingham. The first two digits telling you the supplier, the third digit being the model and the last two digits being the sequential order number. For example, if you own a boxlock that is numbered 146XX, it will be a 3in chambered heavy gun with 30in barrels. Or 180XX will be a 2in chambered lightweight gun with 27in barrels.

Fletchedpair

Nice post re the Dickson, my favorite British SXS.

The price they had quoted me in 1979 was 7500 pounds, showing an amazing climb in price after the inflationary 70s.

Do you have any indication of what proportion of Dicksons was built as non ejectors? I have seen photos of one non ejector and it looks like it would be a much simpler action to make without the proprietary ejector system.

A non ejector side pedal in 16 gauge would be about perfect, but that is a subjective opinion.

By the time you get to 1985, a single gun was £15,000 and within five years of that it was up to £22,000. Fast forward to 2008 and the price was £37,000. Today, you don't get much change out of £50k.

Ok, the ejector question is a difficult one because there are a number of ways to cut and dice it. The Dickson records are not complete, guns missing and also duplicated numbers! Quite a few early guns were also converted to another maker/type of ejectors system before Dickson came out with their own one.

All the early round-actions were built as non-ejectors (from 1880), the earliest patent use number issued was No. 20 from 19th Sept. 1881. Nobody has seen a patent use number below this, so not sure if the numbers were even issued (the first triple barrelled Dickson carries the 'Patent No. 1' stamp but this was for three barrelled guns). The early guns were all non-ejectors and really streamlined, and the first set here were not even round-actions but back-action sidelocks using the cocking bar patent.

As I said above, Dickson fitted ejectors to round-actions from other makers and some prototypes of their own, the first noted on guns No. 4024 & 4025 from 1886. Dickson's own patent ejector system came into effect on gun No. 4074 in 1887 (the coil spring in the action) and was refined in revised 1899 patent with the claw 'kicker' and compressor, which opens the barrels, we recognise today.

The last patent use number issued and recorded in the records is 1910 and belongs to gun No. 7597 delivered on 12th Oct. 1956 for £320. There were some 28 round-actions built after this gun to present but Dicksons stopped issuing patent use numbers around this time.

Ok, after all of that some maths based on the info we have to hand with some speculation. The count of hammerless round-actions in the records is 1825 due to patent use numbers omitted or complete record entries missing (I think the number is actually closer to 2000). Of this number approximately 1600 were built as ejectors as intended.

Dickson never made a 16 bore side-pedal ejector or non-ejector with two barrels. They did however make five three barrelled side-pedal guns in 16 bore, but you need to dig really deep to buy one!

Dicksons did indeed make at least one sidelever 16 bore non-ejector. It is a skeleton action also.

Although being intimately familiar with the gun, sadly it belongs to someone else.

It is quite a gun.

Just a follow up to Roy's post regarding the Black Country which I thought was spot on.

It's no coincidence that gun locks are called gun locks. They were often made by common or garden locksmiths; the techniques, machinery and skills required were common to both applications. Willenhall in particular was a centre of lock making (still is) and has a Lock Museum which references guns. I once had a look at the 1901 Census for Willenhall and it was stiff with gun lock makers.

Forging is indeed a noisy thumpy business which explains my current deafness; as a young man I was a metallurgist at Garringtons Forge amongst others. No regard to hearing protection in those days.

Going deaf was merely a hazard, but running out of mild ale was clearly a disaster in a forge. "The shift kid" always trotted over to the pub with a tray full of cans for the guys on th'ommers. A big forge could literally shake the earth, and in the days of real live beer delivered in barrels and allowed to settle for a couple of days that couldn't be allowed. Many pubs were built with thick rubber floating floors to insulate them from the nearby forges. "The Boat" just off Darlaston Green was one; supped many a pint of Banks's in there.

In the 1834 census the licensee of "The Vine" just round the corner from "The Boat" was William Wilkes, gun lock maker, together with nineteen others in the district. In the Classified Directory of 1774 there is listed one Francis Chandler, Gun Lock Maker, so it's a long lived tradition.

There is a Black Country chap named Steatham who in researching his family history found out that his forbears were gun lock filers and makers. Lo and behold,a Kentucky type plains rifle held in a North Carolina museum turned up with "Steatham" stamped on the lock.



Eug

Fletchedpair thank you for that information. Only two thosuand makes the DRA a very rare gun, I should feel lucky to have handled a half dozen of them. Considering only 400 were non ejectors that is some consolation in not coming across one of those.

Mike Rowe is lucky, to have seen a side pedal 16. That must be a really graceful gun. In the 12 I feel the fence tends to overpower the bar a smidge.

Eugene, the ale was to prevent dehydration in the heat of the forge no doubt. Nowadays they would be drinking some politically correct electrolyte thing.

Sure was. Even the metallurgist got a thirst on!

Eug

I wonder how long it takes a firm today to build for example an AR15- M16 from scratch? I'll bet it's a fraction of the time required to build a rifle in the traditional way from steel.
I'm omitting reference to our favorites double guns since there's no real comparison that can be made.
Jim

I was at a gunshow hear in florida this pasted weekend and picked a 12ga coach gun mfg by London arms company. I looked up that company and it said they were established in 1855 and went out of business in 1866 they said that this company supplie a lot of guns for the confedercy duing the civil war.This company was also called London armory company. I would like to find out more. This shotgun may have been used in the civil war I sure hope so. Any info would be helpful.

Eugene,
I cant believe I missed out Willenhall in my list of Black Country towns Many of the Willenhall lock makers of old developed round shoulders due to long hours working at their bench,locals used to refer to their condition as; "The Willenhall Crouch." As you say not much concern for health and safety in those far off days.
As I recall, Yale had a lock and lift truck manufacturing business located in Willenhall.

Frederick Beesley made less than 2000 guns, so Beesley's are very rare too! And his best are very fine, though that is my biased opinion!

Many Beesley guns mention Phillipson & Nephew as a supplier. This is what I have found out about them, so far:

William Phillipson claimed he established his business as an action maker in 1840 in Birmingham, but no address is known. One report states that his address was 91 Upper Priory in 1876, and another report states that in about 1878 he was at 78 Weaman Street. Neither address has been confirmed. In 1911 the firm of Phillipson & Nephew, gun and action makers, was recorded at 78 Weaman Street. In 1949 the firm became Phillipson & Nephew (Gunmakers) Ltd. In 1958 the company moved to Unit 47, 41 Richard Street. Reportedly the company closed in 1974, but others state that between 1960 and 1997 the company moved to Wesham Road, Honeyburne, Nr. Evesham, Worcestershire, where they may continue to trade. The company supplied sidelock and boxlock actions to the trade, and may have produced a few guns undr their own name. They supplied boxlock actions to Churchill Atkin Grant & Lang Ltd from late 1972.Herbert Beesley after his father's death was going to turn over, and costed out, Standard Grade SLE work to them, according to Don Masters. They also made complete guns for Harrods according to Nigel Brown.

Tim

The modern incarnation of Phillipsons remains in business, supplying actions and components to the trade, only producing them by modern manufacturing methods. They have been a godsend to some of the boutique makers as they will supply exotic actions and components in small batches. More expensive thataway but where do you go when you need to make a 32-ga? Capt. Pugwash or Fletchedpair could add more.

If Philipsons are still in business they are very hard to find. A net and UK phone book search failed to bring up any phone or address for them.

They had been on my list for an "exotic" action. If they were locatable I would not have had to learn so much about CNC etc. Every cloud and its silver lining and all that...

The lock stamped with the name "Ketland" was also found on many American "Kentucky" rifles.

"In 1795 the United States ordered 3,000 musket size and rifle-pistol size locks from John Ketland these were issued out to various contractors to build muskets, rifles and pistols, for the Government."


From the mid-1700's through the mid-1800's, three generations of the Ketland family were heavily involved in the North American gun trade. The Ketland gun-making dynasty as started by Thomas Ketland who lived from around 1740 to 1816. . Thomas Ketland was a Birmingham, England gun maker however, the Ketland name is not associated with North American gun market because of the craftsmanship of the senior Mr. Ketland. Instead, the Ketland name is generally recognized due to the large number Ketland branded guns and LOCKS which were imported to this side of the Atlantic.

Try J.B.Phillipson.Its very unlikely that they would have been able to take on your work as they are extremely busy.Normally if you order actions from them it can take over a year before your order will be fulfilled,and if any design work is involved it will take longer.
Going back to the forgings it is generally recognised that,as well as for strength,forgings were used to reduce the amount of metal that initially needed to be machined to produce a starting point to make the gun.This was in days gone by when the machines were not as good as they are now.
The cnc machining is not complete answer to speedy gun manufacture.I have made a lot of guns both using modern machinings and also old machinings from pre cnc days,and a lot of the methods used from producing guns the old way are actually quicker than with the cnc'd parts.The answer is a mix of both but unfortunately however many times you try to explain this to the gun companies,the people at the top are blinded by technology and a box of great looking machinings that dont go together.

Phillipsons were the firm that everyone went to in the trade and I used a couple of trade actions from about 20 years ago when building a pair of 20 bore boxlocks for a former employer. They were were really good but nothing compared to the machined parts available today. The Mayfair Engineering shotgun actions and locks are quite superb.

http://www.mayfairengineering.com/