I'm having a hard time visualizing how the sideclips we see on heavy proofed guns actually work. Do they really work in terms of the physics??

No..... but they will add a nice slice to your hands if handled incorrectly.

No is the answer. When I was about twelve years old, a friend of my Dad's sent me a nice Francotte Grade 14 with side clips that was laterally loose on the hinge when closed and the side clips did absolutely nothing to keep it tight.

Their manufacture is brutal, they are hammer formed via "ears" extending from the action body sides.

They make rebarreling a pain.

They do not reinforce the action to barrel joint.

What happens when a double is fired is more involved than what is usuallly portrayed by the authorities. But that is another story. The nett result is that sideclips do not contribute to the lockup.

They do add to the aesthetics of the gun for some of us though and to that, serve a purpose.

RCC, you're right about the aesthetics. I love to look at them. I have a wonderful little 30" Sauer with clips, lots of color, tight as a tick, horn trigger guard, great pigeon chokes, and I still can't sell it for $900. So much for side clips increasing the value of a gun.

I ordered an Arrieta 801 N with side clips in the late 1980's.

With the gun closed you could see daylight between the sideclips & matching cut in the bbls (think large dead cat) & I could see no evidence that the sideclips came to bear when the gun was fired either. In this case the maker obviously thought sideclips were totally cosmetic.

In a gun with the lumps properly fitted to the action it's difficult to see how sideclips would improve on lateral support but they don't hurt anything & look traditional on a heavy proof gun.

I disagree that side clip are merely aesthetic and add nothing to the strength of the action.

I agree they do look good, but I also like actions without them and only have one gun with them.

I do agree that they add technical difficulty to rebarrelling.

I find they are more common on German Guns and while I do believe that German guns often seem over strengthened I have some faith that when the Germans do something technical it tends to be correct, though maybe overkill. My experience with German engineering (cars, guns, optics, etc.) is that it is more often than not, correct.

While they are redundant to other locking points and may not be truly necessary I believe they do add something to the strength of an action.

They are like third bites and cross bolts , if fitted properly they do have some effect but in most older guns with wear they do not work . A number of Spanish guns I have come across seem to have them for "effect" only

I have a pair of double rifles in .375 and .500. I wanted sideclips as I love the look. The chaps at the gunmakers told me that strength wise they are unecessary and they cost me a lot per gun but I do love them ! best

Functional or not you can cut your hand on one faster that a Teal can change directions. They may look good but are a item that will cause me to not buy a gun. That decreases the price for others who like them. If I wore gloves all the time they might not bother me as much but I try not to wear two gloves everywhere and one glove alone makes me look too much like Michael Jackson.

Sounds to me like sideclips are to a double gun what tailfins were to a '50s American convertible. More part of the aesthetic than a real contributor to function.

I only cut myself once with a sideclip and I shoot several guns with them. I learned quick that they are sharp.

I guess that using them is akin to using a pocket knife without a blade lock. You have to be careful, but it is not all that hard to do really.

Hmmmmm........my last concern when I introduced this topic was whether someone could actually cut themselves on the beveled edge of a side clip. Interesting, as I have never heard of this, but in retrospect I can see how that could happen. Rather, the jlist of the question is really whether the lateral forces or , the rotatational forces......or torque.....a twisting-like motion that a shotgun demonstrates upon detonation is not diminished but rather offset with these side clips?? Does this force really have anything to do with SxS shotguns where these side clips would diminish the stress on the action? As a person of science, I'm having difficulty appreciating where sideclips would really do any good at all.

Agree with Ken and Jon that they're great hand-cutters. That being said, I won't reject a gun because it has them.

Other than looking good to some and cutting hands if careless or forgetful of them, they do no real good Buzz. At least that is what the two gunsmiths I use most tell me.

About as useful as teats on a boar hog. Buzz, actions are made from rather soft and pliable material and those thin side clips have neither the strength or elasticity to block side forces.

I'm with Old Colonel and cannot believe that there is (was) no real reason for sideclips. In old catalogues guns are praised with "fivefold locks" of course two of them beeing sideclips. Gunmakers didn`t made them (BTW many of the belgium made guns have them) just for looking good or cutting hands. I'm curious if there is anything different in handling guns in the US??? I never had any problems nor ever heard of it!

Kind Regards,
Wolfgang

OK, asked my Gunmaker friend... They are as good as useless.... Very often used on cheaper guns because hiding the air at the barrels end for the unpracticed viewer.
Kind Regards,
Gunwolf

Interesting discussion, causes me to wonder if their intended real purpose may not have been to act as a deflection devise for escaping gases in the event of a punctured primer, much as some standing breeches have a gas escapement groove cut in them. Fences served a similar purpose on earlier guns as a form of protection for the shooter.

Anyone know where side clips originated or what gun was the first to tout them? Was there ever mention of them being 'protective' or was it always advertised as being a 'lock' or bolting improvement?

Personally, I find them an annoyance & have suffered a cut on more than one occasion from being inattentive.

The tailfin analogy said it all for me, and gave me the day's chuckle.

Sideclips seem to me to be too much trouble to fashion and fit if they serve no real function. On rifles that operate at much higher pressure than shotguns, they would seem to brace the joint of barrels and receiver against the tendency to wear from side to side. They are much closer to the point where force is generated than the barrel lumps are. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that on really good guns they have a function, and on poor ones they're just tailfins.

Buzz,
What do you mean by the phrase above? How does a shotgun exhibit "rotational forces" or a "twisting-like" motion upon detonation? A rifle, perhaps. But I simply cannot think how the straight - line recoil of a shotgun exhibits anything resembling a twisting action??? Of course, I am not an engineer or anything of that technical sort. I will be eagerly awaiting this explanation. Thanks.

Side clips add strength....if not the English would never wasted their time putting them on a SxS.

PMk: I believe it has to do with barrel flip which is more pronounced on a SxS than an O/U. A sort of oscillating like movement. Thus placing strain on the action. At least this is how I think of it, but I am no engineer either.

I agree with old colonel completely, except with regard to rebarreling.When new tubes are installed,the breach end of the old barrels are used,to which the sideclips are already fit. Complete new barrels would require additional fitting, however.
Mike

So....the barrels would be less strong because of the removal of metal required for the side clips.......????

I'm fishing just like Joe

You guys have me thinking. I think I will specify side clips on my Fox project gun. My gunsmiths already think I'm nuts so why not.

Exactly, in the old days they did, with modern steels they are for aesthetics and I love them, have never had a double rifle or shotgun without them but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What I don´t understand is how you chaps have cut yourselves with them ?? That has never happened to me in 30 years. How do you open them ? best, Mike

You aren't ever going to get that gun finished, Bill, if you keep adding specs to it!

SRH

Ken; your bullet holes are distracting!!

Stan, funny you should mention that. I about drove DV crazy when he was filing the receiver. But he finally joined me in suggesting little "improvements" that I approved wholeheartedly. However, it is now in phase two. I am now driving DR crazy. Geoffrey will be next, has seen the gun and made positive comments, and has agreed to participate. However, you only know if a project is going to be a success when you see the finished product. This is my third project gun that has been entirely completed by craftsmen who are my friends. With one project, I chose to do no metal work, so Dan Rossiter was the sole craftsman and the job is astounding. It is a Parker pigeon gun that was displayed on Dan's tables at the Southern Side by Side.

I doubt you are serious, but in case you are, adding sideclips to a receiver without them would require welding additional metal onto the existing receiver and filing it down. Given the strength of the fox action already they would be overkill or affectation.

That said I doubt you really mean to do it except to bait someone. Then again I have been wrong before.

It isn't rocket science for a talented gunsmith to add them. Almost all of the DelGrego and Pachmayr Parker Invincibles have them. Affectation, yes. However, a talented engraver can add faux side clips that cannot be told from the real thing until you open the gun.

Pelosi on a popsicle stick!!!
I'll bet you have problems with crossing true pairs too!!

Let it not be said that I wasn't sensitive to the needs of others........

For those that haven't seen how sideclips are fashioned watch this Arrieta youtube video. The sideclip action begins at about the :52 mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A39UlMzwuP0

I hate 'em. Finger slicing device. Great to look at on someone's heavily engraved, decked out, bespoke somethin or another. As to adding strength...show me the analysis. They look like camming devices to open the action in the event the barrels actually came to bear against them. But then you'd have bigger issues if the barrels spread enough to really bear against them. They are in the same catagory as "dollsheads" in my opinion.

Spoken like a man with a ton of experience with them, eh Chuck?

What's wrong with a Doll's Head. Seems to me as if a properly fitted one should add support to the standing breech to prevent it springing back as much on firing.

I've never been cut....got pinched a little once.

[img]https://picasaweb.google.com/10604853418...938016362446402[/img]

My Zanardini London has drawn blood a couple times!

Sideclips do work if they are well done. I have never hurt myself on one. I guess I keep my fingers away from them.
If they are not well done, they do nothing, just the same as a Greener third bite.
They absorb the off axis torque inherent to a SxS shotgun, where the cartridge thrust is not aligned with the lockup and more importantly the lumps.
They are redundant with a doll's head or a greener bolt but not a Purdey 3rd bite...
They would do nothing on a O/U.
I recently looked for an inventor, but could not find anything. Purdey has used them for a very long time.
Best regards,
WC-

Wildcattle; I agree. I have four guns with side clips; a very nice Belgian guild, Garbi and two Huglu made Dehaans. None will even begin to accept a .001 feeler gauge. I also believe the Purdey style hidden third bites work because they are cammed over which maintains constant pressure. Many Spanish makers used them but I believe all were discontinued due to cost. Ugartechea was the last to discontinue to my knowledge in about 1986.

Maybe a more direct question would be how many guns with side clips have you seen that had side to side wiggle in the action? I've not seen many, although that is certainly just an anecdotal observation on my part.