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Posted By: kcordell Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/29/12 05:41 PM
Hi, I posted this on the Fox Collectors site and received some great information. I thought I would share here in the event someone would have any additional information on this piece.

History, I found this in Virginia on Saturday in a small shop. Any thoughts or data welcome.

This sxs is unaltered with mirror bore, 30" uncut damascus barrels and 14"+ LOP uncut stock.
















**sorry for cruddy pics. no sunlight here with the pending hurricane. Also, I have not cleaned it in any way. Its just as I found it less some dust :-)

Posted By: RHD45 Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/29/12 06:02 PM
Very nice and rare gun.
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/29/12 06:24 PM
That's a pretty late gun in the Baltimore Arms line. I have one very similar in the 1700 range. Engraving and stock decoration are very similar. You are lucky to find your gun. My impression of Baltimore Arms higher grades is that metal fit was quite good, the engraving somewhat unusual and naive, and the stock checkering and carving maybe the best of all the doubles of that time. If you want to see pictures of another D, you might find an article on the Company by Dave Noreen, as I recall. I gave him photos of mine that are published there in the Double Gun Journal. If you'd like some pics of that one and others, email me. My address in in my Profile.
Posted By: kcordell Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/29/12 06:32 PM
Daryl,

Thanks for the comments! I have read both of his articles in (I think) 1999 DGJ editiona.

How common are the D variants? I know one was on auction with Butterfield years ago but couldnt get any data on this including what it sold for .

Thanks.
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/29/12 06:35 PM
kcordell, I have seen or heard of maybe four or five D Grades. The C grades, maybe three. I think there was a T grade stuck in there with fluid steel barrels. B's had slight engraving and could be Damascus or fluid steel. The A was plain.
Posted By: topgun Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/29/12 06:50 PM
As Daryl stated; any Baltimore gun above a Grade B is rare. In a recent discussion with David Noreen, he had recorded serial numbers on only 4 Grade C Baltimore guns; and the Grade T gun Daryl referenced is the Baltimore Arms Trap Grade. One example of a Baltimore Trap Grade is pictured in the Mike McIntosh book on the A.H. Fox; and I've heard of only 2 others. Your Grade D was the highest grade gun cataloged by BALTIMORE ARMS, and I understand that the D Grade retailed at $175. In my opinion, the checkering and ribbon work on the stocks of Grade D Baltimore guns is excellent.
Posted By: PeteM Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/29/12 07:28 PM
I am sure Dave has this in his fine articles. That patent is by Hollenbeck

http://www.google.com/patents/US643601?p...eck&f=false

Pete
Posted By: RedofTx Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/29/12 08:59 PM
Ahhhh..... to have the time to go into all the small shops to see what treasures may be hidden there. Nice shotgun.
Posted By: kcordell Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/29/12 09:07 PM
Heh...this was just luck..
Posted By: J.R.B. Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/29/12 09:41 PM
Originally Posted By: RedofTx
Ahhhh..... to have the time to go into all the small shops to see what treasures may be hidden there. Nice shotgun.


Same here plus all the pawn shops. This gun has my drool flowing. smile
Posted By: Researcher Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/29/12 09:56 PM
Great gun!!! My two-part series on Baltimore Arms Co. was in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Ten, Issues 1 and 3. Very interesting that 5652.D was a 30-inch Damascus barrel gun that sold in the November 2002, Butterfield Auction. I'm pretty sure Tony G. bought it and it has since moved on. Here are pictures from the online auction catalogue --









Serial number 5651 was an unfinished gun that was completely profiled like a D-Grade but had no checkering on the stock and was unengraved. Probably one of many guns-in-work that were sold during the receivership. It was for sale at the Maryland Arms Collectors Association Gun Show in 1999 and at least a couple of years either way from that. In my years of recording Baltimore Arms Co. guns it looks like there was a gaggle of D-Grade 1902 Model 12-gauges in the 173x range, and this group of 1904 Model D-Grade 12-gauges in the 565x range.

Contrary to much popular belief, these guns have nothing to do with Ansley H. Fox. They are a Frank A. Hollenbeck design. Ansley left his partners in Baltimore in the Fox Gun Co., Balto., MD., U.S.A. in early 1900 to become a professional shooter for Winchester. The partners formed a new corporation under the laws of West Virginia, Baltimore Arms Co., with their principle place of business Baltimore, Maryland. The early Hollenbeck designed guns they built at the old Fox factory are considered 1900 Models. These seem to have serial numbers from 1000 into the 14xx range. They built a new factory at the corner of South Sharp and Stockholm Streets. Meanwhile, Ansley was on the road shooting for the big W, and moved his family to Philadelphia. By November 1902, he had incorporated Philadelphia Arms Co. and by August 1903, they had broken ground for their new factory in the Germantown area of Philadelphia. Back in Baltimore, the Baltimore Arms Co. moved into their new factory in March 1901, and brought out a very slightly revised design gun, 1902 Model - stronger cocking toes on the hammers and a slightly different sear and sear spring, and added two new grades the Trap Gun and the D-Grade, and added 16-gauge guns to the line. They continued to operate through 1903, and revised the shape of the receivers to have rebates for securing the head of the stock, like the gun in question, and these are known as 1904 Models. The highest serial number 1902 Model I've recorded is in the 52xx range, and the lowest 1904 Model in the 54xx range. Baltimore Arms Co. was in a continuing negative cash flow cycle and just shortly after the Great Baltimore Fire, which missed the factory by a few blocks, the creditors pulled the plug. They worked through the summer on reorganization plans, but by early fall it appeared hopeless and a receiver was appointed.

So far, I've only recorded two Trap Guns, mine and the one in McIntosh's book. Mine has been restocked, but I still have the original stock. The other one has a worse restock, was I believe owned by Cote' at the time of the book, then at one time Tim Sheldon had it for sale and more recently Jay Shacter had it for sale. These two Trap Guns are consecutive serial number 1902 Models. So far more D-quality Baltimore Arms Co. guns have come to light than either C-quality or Trap Guns.

Trap Gun --





I've recorded Baltimore Arms Co. guns from the low 10xx range up into the 70xx range for serial numbers. I don't believe that means 6000+ were really completed, though some were being completed by Baltimore area, and likely elsewhere, gunsmiths long after the company was gone.

Posted By: Drew Hause Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/29/12 10:14 PM
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1901/VOL_36_NO_18/SL3618013.pdf

The Baltimore Anns Co., Baltimore, Md., have their new model hammorless shotgun ready for the public. It is the latest gun out and the manufacturers claim for it the highest degree of perfection in gun making. It In the result of years of experience of one of the most practical gun men In the world.
It is simple in parts, strong in action, safe to use, powerful in shooting quality, will not get out of order, miss fire or shoot loose. The stock is solid and cannot be blown out. The frame is strong and not cut away for lock work. With the improved circular locking bolt of the Baltimore gun the barrels are always held tightly to the frame and cannot be shot loose by the use of nitro powder. The cocking bolt is new and simple, allowing the gun to be cocked without any special effort.
The cocking bolt comes in direct contact with the hammers and the weight of the barrels almost cock the gun. The main springs act directly on the hammers, which have a throw of 5/8 of an inch, all of which positively prevent miss fires.
The outline, balance, finish and working of the Baltimore hammerless is all that could be desired. All of the guns are bored full choke for close, hard shooting, and on a principle which guarantees the highest velocity with even distribution of pellets.
The guns are now produced in three grades, being made with best English Stub twist barrels, choke bore. English walnut stock, half pistol grip, checkered and well finished; 28, 30 and 32 inch barrels. $35.
B grade has three blade Damascus steel barrels, choke bored, English walnut stock, half pistol grip, nicely checkered. 28, 3O and 32 inch barrels, $45.
C grade has fine fluid steel or fine Damascus barrels to order, straight or half pistol grip, finely checkered and engraved 28 and 30 inch barrels. ($80 in later ads)
The Baltimore gun is made particularly for the trap shooters and is guaranteed in every way by the manufacturer. Their new illustrated catalogue will be mailed free to all applications. Write Baltimore Arms Co.. Baltimore. Md., for catalogue and prices of their new gun.

Cut-away image
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1901/VOL_37_NO_12/SL3712031.pdf

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1902/VOL_38_NO_20/SL3820014.pdf
J. Prosser Tabb of the Baltimore Arms Co. is now working through the South, showing the fine samples of the Baltimore hammerless gun. He is meeting with good success as the gun he sells takes well with the trade.

Ridge Bond was the only shooter to use a Baltimore Arms gun at the 1901 GAH
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1901/VOL_37_NO_04/SL3704020.pdf
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/30/12 12:47 AM
Here's a C Grade. Note the stock quality. Someone there must have giving lots of attention to this phase of the guns.












This Last Picture on a Baltimore Arms D Grade

Posted By: JB32 Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/30/12 06:17 PM
wow,

What a great old double and and even better find !!!

Congrats .... all I ever find are some old nickel plated single shot H&R's ... :-)

Be safe All, Jimmy B.
Posted By: kcordell Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/30/12 09:27 PM
Just a note to the forum,,, I am very pleased and thankful for the knowledge and other replies received. It really makes this hobby / sport enjoyable.

Again, thanks...

kevin
Posted By: Researcher Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/31/12 12:22 AM
I have reached the height of minutia!! We note that there was a chip out of the die used to stamp the zero (0) in the serial number on 5650.D.



The chip was already missing from the die when 5101 was stamped --



And the die had gotten even worse by the time 6170.C was marked --



I don't have pictures of any other Baltimore Arms Co. watertables with a zero in the serial number.
Posted By: RHD45 Re: Baltimore Arms D Grade ? - 10/31/12 12:37 AM
I love those old checkering patterns exhibited here and on high grade Lefevers.
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