I have a gun currently .018R .030L, a 12b and want to get it opened up for a grouse/quail gun. It's obviously got too much choke for that. What should I make the chokes? Thx for your opinion.

Especially with a 12, where you're likely to shoot slightly heavier loads than you would with a smaller bore, I don't think you need much choke at all in a 12 for grouse and quail. I'd say a maximum of .005 in the R barrel. The L, I think, is less important for grouse (where you don't get a lot of 2nd shots) than it is for quail. But I'd suggest .015 (light mod) as a maximum. Maybe as little as .010. I have a 20ga grouse gun that's choked .000/.007. I do shoot a lot more woodcock than grouse, but so far I'm quite pleased with those very open chokes.

Buzz,
I don't do grouse, but for quail with a 12g, when I did use a 12g, I liked .005 or cylinder in the first barrel and .040 in the left worked well for me. I have a 26" #1 frame Parker with this arrangement (.005R/.040L) from the factory.

I also did very well with another 12g gun with cylR/.005L chokes.

Keep it as-is and use these or Fiocchi's:
http://www.gamaliel.com/nobelsporttarget..._shotshells.asp
JR

If you have not read it, this article about chokes by Terry Wieland is very interesting. It suggests that Mod is effective over a wider range than IC, and therefore may be a better choice unless you know all your shots will be within 25 yards.
choke article

I have not used a LMod choke in the field but use it for sporting clays and am regularly impressed with its effective range (solid breaks at 35 yards).

Been down that road myself brother, and wish I'd not. My 28" Parker VH on a 1 1/2 frame was like Chuck's - .005 and .040. Had to pay Briley 3 times what the original 'choke work' cost to correct the left barrel POI which was a foot low and left at 16 yards after opening the choke to .020
You've got a perfect big country pheasant gun; leave it be and get yourself a lighter 16 or 20 with Sk1/Sk2 chokes. Your right arm, both legs, and dog, will thank you

.005 right barrel and .015 left. This would be skeet in/ skeet out back in the day and would be all you need for anything but duck or goose hunting. It would also cover just about any clay target game. Paul

Guys. I'm on my way to Eyster's now. At a minimum I'm going to have the bores lightly cleaned up as there is some light freckling...hopefully just lapped and not honed. I thought we might get some varied opinions. I want to leave some choke in case I go after some Huns, sharpies and pheasant sometime. I was thinking .008r and .020L?? With modern shot cups I think .030 is almost obsolete??

In that case, leave them tighter and plan to use spreaders for grouse and woodcock.

I'd open the right barrel to around 10 points, and leave the tight barrel just as it is. You then have a very useful 12Ga for many hunting situations just as the gun sits. When hunting ruffed grouse, put a spreader in your tight barrel and fire it first if the leaves are still on the tree. The little quail shooting I've done was in relatively open ground where a second shot was quite possible. But with ruffed grouse, more often than not, you'll only get one shot - the second shot, if you get it, will usually be a "Hail Mary".

Ok Drew and John Roberts......took your advice and left the chokes alone. A very light hone to bores and the Sir Joseph Whitworth barrels now look brand new. Removed less than .001 inch. 30 yards the right barrel throws 92% of shot in a 30 in circle and at 35 yards the left throws 93% of shot in 30 in circle. A pheasant and dove gun for sure. After reading your posts I couldn't bring myself to ream out the chokes.....besides, I have other open choked guns. Thanks for your opinions!

Buzz,
Sounds like you'll be happier with yourself and the gun over the long run with that decision.

I always look for reasons to get another gun or at least shoot another one of my guns.

Good move brother

Richard Sibbes The Soul's Conflict With Itself 1635
Happy is he that in his way to heaven meeteth with a cheerful and skilful guide and fellow-traveller, that carrieth cordials with him against all faintings of spirit. It is a part of our wisdom to salvation to make choice of such a one as may further us in our way. An indifferency for any company shews a dead heart. Where the life of grace is, it is sensible of all advantages and disadvantages. How many have been refreshed by one short, apt, savoury speech, which hath begotten, as it were, new spirits in them.

If this is not appropriate here, my apologies
BUT, How do they open fixed chokes?? reamer?, hone it with stones?? HOW???

Cheers

6mm: they use reamers to take out a lot of choke, then to make perfectly round I believe they hone, when done with that, they polish by lapping with progressively finer grit sandpaper.....or at least this is how it was explained to me. Apparently reamers and drills are not perfectly round, but take on a more of a figure of 8 appearance, so the out of round is remedied with a hone ( in a lathe type apparatus). I'm no machinist, and if I'm wrong in this explanation, hopefully someone with more knowledge than me will pipe in. BTW a perfect place to ask this sort of question.

Expansion reamer, either with the driving shank or arbor "piloted" (bushed) in the bore and driven from the breech OR driven by a T-handle from the muzzle end by an operator who attempts to hold his reamer and his tongue just right. Latter method is said to work best with chokes which have a parallel-walled section at the muzzle following the tapered section. Presumably there are dedicated lathes and boring machines which assure the "precision" which sometimes allows POI to be displaced at least as much as would be possible for a blind man with a rattail file.

jack

buzz,

Good decision on the chokes in my opinion. If you feel you need more open chokes for special situations try the RST spreaders. They are appropriate pressure for vintage SxS guns & the limited amount of patterning I've done with them indicates more even shot distribution than some of the other spreader loads I've tried. For what it's worth RST's open the pattern somewhat less than the PolyWad spreaders do but don't have holes in the pattern with the limited testing I've done.

I wish I would have gone this route on several guns that I've opened the chokes on in the past but the RST spreaders were not available at that time.

luv dem spreader loads. buy a few different ones and head for the patterning board.

I had a similarly bad experience w/ Briley several years ago when I had them put screw in chokes in a nice 28 gauge Perazzi. The end of the barrels looked like someone had taken ahold of them with a pair of vice grips. When I called, I was assured that the damage was not done by them, that they had arrived in the shop that way (they were perfect when I sent them).

My preference in chokes for a gun with double triggers is very open (.005 to .008) on the right, full choke on the left. Being able to instantly choose is a real advantage, and I don't recall feeling at disadvantage for a tight choked second shot.

In case you reconsider, A real pro to open a choke is Ken Eversull, in Louisiana. He does it by honing alone, that which he did for me was perfect.

Ken Eversull is an excellent gunsmith and he has worked on my guns, including a single trigger Purdey which was not so excellent until Ken worked on it. There is no better gunsmith on things of this nature. For barrel work though, I would be tempted to go with someone who specializes in such matters, such as Jim Eyster at Heritage Gunsmiths. BTW, I will NEVER buy another English single trigger gun and I got rid of that one. Talk about problems!

Jim is top drawer as well, but I was put onto Ken by none other than David Trevallion as one of the best in the business with shotgun barrels. I was impressed...

Buzz, I respect your decision . . . but with 90+% patterns from the R barrel at 30 yards, she's definitely NOT a grouse gun--unless you use spreaders.

When using a double with tubes, I almost aways put a cyl/ic on the first bbl, the other gets a full. Even in the gouse/doodle woods early season with full folage, that second shot can be out there. When we went out west to the sand hills of Ne chasing sharpies and chickens, I used this combo to great effect. Even when in the rolling open hills there were still substantial close shots. Plus with a quality highbrass shell you can get Modified patterns with an ic.

And either in Mi or Ne, if the bird gets up at 35+ yards, the quickest way to the full choke (this is on a SST) is to shoot the open bbl first (when using the DT 311 I still slap the front trigger first - my brain isn't fast). It's amazing how many birds drop at over 40yds with 7 1/2 spreaders thru an open choke.

Gary