http://www.csmcspecials.com/product_p/rbl410.htmWe, are very excited to be offfering the new RBL Baby frame .410.
The RBL .410 is made on a completely separate frame from all other RBL's. This RBL's action is incredibly small and the gun weighs a mere 5 lbs. 0 oz.. Only 500 RBL Baby Frame .410 shotguns will be made!! Order yours Today!
Click Here For More Information Or To Order Your RBL .410
The RBL .410 is made on a completely separate frame from all other RBL's. This RBL's action is incredibly small and the gun weighs a mere 5 lbs. 0 oz.. Only 500 RBL Baby Frame .410 shotguns will be made!! Order yours Today!
Standard Features:
* .410 Bore
* 28" Barrels
* Fixed chokes opened to customer specifications
* 2x premium walnut stock
* Receiver machined from a solid billet of 86-20 steel
* Auto Ejector
* Traditional Bone and Charcoal Case Color Hardening
* Splinter Forend
* Flat V Main Springs
* Opposing Double Bridged Action
* Double Rolled Trigger Guard
* Hard Rubber Butt Plate
* Weight Approximately 5 lbs.
* Classic 2 point checkering pattern
* Miniature Rose & Scroll Engraving
* Stock Dimensions: 14 1/2" LOP, 1 1/2" Drop at Comb, 2 3/8" Drop at Heel
* Connecticut Shotgun Name and Quality
Optional Features Include:
* Wood Upgrade 3X - $350
* Wood Upgrade 4X - $600
* Wood Upgrade Exhibition - $900
* Beavertail Forend - $400 * Price: $6,995.00
$7000 for a machine checkered gun seems to be a heck of a lot of money. When the RBLs were $3000, they made more sense but $7000 is Boss/Purdey 12 bore hammergun money or certainly a mid-tier British Maker's .410 money, used.
Not trying to kill the messenger, Mike, just the message. ;-)
I sure would like to see one up close..
The smaller they get the more they cost...
Finest gun in the world..Dint someone say that? Buy a CZ, about the same specs, 900 bucks.
Mike,
I invested heavily in English commodities and it's all turning to sh!#.
For that price it would be nice if you could get it with dual triggers.
http://www.csmcspecials.com/product_p/rbl410.htmSteve
Steve,
For that price it'd be nice if it didn't have checkering done with a woodburning kit and engraving done with an industrial laser sheetmetal cutter.
$7000?!!
Just makes the Yildiz look like even more of a deal at $489. As much as I like ejectors they ain't worth $6500 to me. Tony looked long and hard at my Yildiz last October at the Southern Fall Classic, and was favorably impressed at how much gun it was for the money.
SRH
At $4K, maybe. At $7K, no. For that money I could get a very nice Spanish sidelock with longer barrels. Or, I could get a Yildiz and an awful lot of ammo. I have an AOC/SG (Uggie) boxlock in .410, and it's hard to believe that the RBL .410 could be any nicer than the AOC.
I have two RBLs that I bought new (20 and 28), but it looks like I'm done with RBLs. Really like the ones I have, but Tony is getting nuts with his pricing.
At $4K, maybe. At $7K, no. For that money I could get a very nice Spanish sidelock with longer barrels. Or, I could get a Yildiz and an awful lot of ammo. I have an AOC/SG (Uggie) boxlock in .410, and it's hard to believe that the RBL .410 could be any nicer than the AOC.
I have two RBLs that I bought new (20 and 28), but it looks like I'm done with RBLs. Really like the ones I have, but Tony is getting nuts with his pricing.
He didn't own one of the first Enzo's in the country for nothing.
If it's true that there will only be 500 units, and you have to amortize the machine tools over that few guns, the price will reflect that.
But, as covered above, that's still a lot of cash, given what you can get sidelock .410's for.
I'm thrilled that we have a US company that has forged ahead with double gun and over/under sidelock production.
However, I'm passing on this one.
Hard to believe they will be standing in line at that price?
Homeless,
"the smaller they get the more they cost"
Same way with bathing suits, right??
Mike
To be fair though, 7k is about what it costs to re-stock a Purdey forend, so its all relative. The Inverness was quite the gun for 3 grand after discounts. I got to handle it more at length in Las Vegas and it was "English gun" nice. So much better than the dog that was my RBL 28
Those who choose not to buy an RBL .410 won't matter. He'll easily sell all 500. I'm going to pass on it too. A 5 lb. gun is difficult to control, but it has a lot of appeal to the tiny-gun crowd. Bravo to Tony Galazan for his new effort, born in the USA.
JR
If it's true that there will only be 500 units, and you have to amortize the machine tools over that few guns, the price will reflect that.
He does not HAVE TO amortize his costs over only 500 guns, but it appears that he chooses to for marketing purposes. Creating an artificial rarity to drive up the price. It's all marketing, and my attitude is "screw him" for marketing that way. On the other hand, Tony is richer than I am so he must, therefore, be smarter than I am.
Regarding the tooling, I know just enough about current machining processes to conclude that most of what he will have to amortize will be jigs and CNC programming. All of the actual machinery probably will be or has been amortized over the other guns he produces. So, he is trying to appeal to a certain snob factor by producing only 500 guns. They do look like nice guns and I would love to own one, but they just don't make economic sense from the perspective of a rational buyer. I'll just have to wait for the retro-launch edition with the 30" barrels and double triggers.
To be fair though, 7k is about what it costs to re-stock a Purdey forend, so its all relative. The Inverness was quite the gun for 3 grand after discounts. I got to handle it more at length in Las Vegas and it was "English gun" nice. So much better than the dog that was my RBL 28
An RBL with laser burned checkering aint a Purdey. Not even the forend.
So true. Thanks to Chuck H, I am lusting after a .410 double.This wont be the one, and wouldnt be, even if I could afford one.
Too bad the wood on those bobwhites looks like it came from the fence post aisle at Home Depot. I guess that's why they're under $1k though. Great platform for customizing!
I have a 1970's vintage Pedersoli with that plain utility grade walnut. However, I lowered the comb and then had to reshape the stock accordingly, forcing me to refinish the entire gun. It's amazing how much better the gun looks and how much more figure was revealed in the wood just by replacing the factory finish.
Steve
Steve I did the same thing with a 28 CZ. Didnt even look like the same plank..From what I have seen the Yildiz guns have some nice wood, at about the same price...Have to admit, my opinion of this gun under discussion is tainted.I am not impressed with any of the RBL's I have seen..
I have a CZ bobwhiye 410 that I like just fine.When I bought mine they were 800.00 and its a lot of gun for the money.I also have a Crescent 410 so I reckon I have the sidelock AND box lock covered and all for 1100 dollars:).If I had an extra 6500 dollars I would be looking at Purdey hammer guns too.
Chuck, I do like the first one, the Arrieta, nothing like a side lock gun with a straight stock.
What a bunch of nay sayers!!! I handled it about a minute at Las Vegas and gave Lou my credit card. I played the Spanish gun game back when Jack O'Connor was pimping Eusabio Arrizagas. I'll never waste money on another.
I have to say I was surprised at the reactions to this gun. I expected most to be enthusiastic. Five pound 410 SxS, modern manufactured by an American firm headed by our generation's Ansley Fox / John Olin.
I gave my son a custom AYA #1 for his college graduation. AYA shipped it late. But since he graduated late because he flunked Spanish the semester before it worked out. Ironic. Anyway it is a very nice, well made gun.
Best,
Mike
OK, Dave, the E. Arizaga is a bad gun. Now, back to the point at hand. What options did you specify on the new RBL? The broadside available on the net doesn't tell us much about what is available, except wood upgrades and grip style. No double trigger option? I guess we really don't need that. If sales are slow, will Tony give up some promotions like he is still doing with the new over under?
Too bad the wood on those bobwhites looks like it came from the fence post aisle at Home Depot.
They must be sourcing their wood from Beretta.
Too bad the wood on those bobwhites looks like it came from the fence post aisle at Home Depot.
They must be sourcing their wood from Beretta.
It's the same wood used on a $8000 Perazzi standard grade.
HaHa You guys funny! Only sad part is that you are exactly right. I just replaced my fence post Beretta wood with a nice wood set from Cole gun. Yildiz puts on superb wood for what you pay IMHO.
I have had experience with three Yildiz Elegante 4 .410s. All had much better wood than any standard Rem., Win., or Ruger I have ever owned. My only gripe with them is the trigger pull. About three hours careful work on each of them and they are very good, now.
Ejectors are tough to get to work right on a .410, according to Tony. Others have told me the same thing. As limited as the use is that mine gets I can live quite happily without them on the little guns. I do love good ejectors on a dove gun, though. I can appreciate that the RBL will probably be much nicer than the Yildiz, but $6500 better? No way. 61 doves taken with it last season convinced me.
SRH
You can't compare a $450 gun made by Turkish peasants to a gun made by people here earning a living wage, paying a mortgage in the USA or England, nor should you want to. This type of thinking led to the downfall of all things we hold dear here in America and why we are beholden to Walmart and China. Something can always be found cheaper but does it ever give you the same pride of ownership? A Model 12 always gave me a sense of pride and always worked, whereas my Mossberg with its ever jambing shell magazine I am ready to cut in half in the chopsaw. Cheap is as cheap does, there is a reason why a $450 gun won't eject shells or has trigger pulls as hard as a wedding night d*ck
"You can't compare a $450 gun made by Turkish peasants to a gun made by people here earning a living wage, paying a mortgage."
You have to pick a better comparison than that. People all over have to earn a living and pay a mortgage.
People shop at Walmart for one reason and one reason only, to save a buck. You will see BMWs parked next to cadilacs.
All the American companies that left here, why do you think they moved, cheaper labor so more money in the CEO's pockets. Don't beleive that some of these foreign gun companies with funny names aren't run by Americans now living there.
If you want to blame it on someone, blame it on us. Kids that do graduate school and don't go to college and if they do want to work, and I do mean want to, want to make $15-20 an hour and not have any ethics in doing a good job and showing up.
So please don't blame anyone for buying a $450 gun compared to $7,000 dollar one. The small fixes still won't cost $6500 to fix.
Sorry about the rant, but we are to blame.
Clearly he has never visited a Turkish gun factory. The folks are far from being "peasants". Lots of modern NC equipment, motivated workers...David is pretty much right on, we did it to ourselves...
The smaller they get the more they cost...
Yep! Compare the pair of size 13 $100.00 mens work boots that contain about a square yard of cow hide to a little dainty pair of size 5 ladies high heels that cost $500.00. Most gals think that's a good deal though, and will buy a closet full.
"You can't compare a $450 gun made by Turkish peasants to a gun made by people here earning a living wage, paying a mortgage."
You have to pick a better comparison than that. People all over have to earn a living and pay a mortgage.
People shop at Walmart for one reason and one reason only, to save a buck. You will see BMWs parked next to cadilacs.
All the American companies that left here, why do you think they moved, cheaper labor so more money in the CEO's pockets. Don't beleive that some of these foreign gun companies with funny names aren't run by Americans now living there.
If you want to blame it on someone, blame it on us. Kids that do graduate school and don't go to college and if they do want to work, and I do mean want to, want to make $15-20 an hour and not have any ethics in doing a good job and showing up.
So please don't blame anyone for buying a $450 gun compared to $7,000 dollar one. The small fixes still won't cost $6500 to fix.
Sorry about the rant, but we are to blame.
No doubt you are correct, we have done it to ourselves sadly. But I have always prefered a gun whittled with simpler machines and little bit of the sweat of the brow. Thats just what I look for even though I am giving up an advantage of perhaps better technology.
Old learned hands like these I will save up $$ to patronize as long as I'm able
The one on display at the Dallas Safari Show had THE most beautiful English crotch walnut to drool over, and felt good in hand. That has skewed my opinion on Tony's little .410, since I am a wood nut...at the same table was a 3 pound Greener .410 which was a useless toy. Steve
No doubt it's a nice gun, and made here in the US of A, but that still doesn't justify the price, in my mind. I'd like to compare the RBL .410, in hand, to my Aspen Outfitting (Ugartechea) AOC/SG. I bought the AOC/SG NIB for $2500 on GB a few years ago when prices were stronger on new and used guns. The biggest problem I had when shopping for that first .410 SxS was the scarcity of guns with 28" or longer barrels and tight chokes in this gauge. There is just not that much to choose from at reasonable price levels for a .410 bird gun. Other than the Turkish guns which all seemed to have some issues (matte chrome frame, single trigger, wavy barrel striking, etc.), the only readily available choices were AOC/Uggie, Merkel, and AyA, so maybe Tony has found a niche that needs filling. I still wish he would make it available with 30" barrels at a sensible price.
You can't compare a $450 gun made by Turkish peasants to a gun made by people here earning a living wage, paying a mortgage in the USA or England, nor should you want to. This type of thinking led to the downfall of all things we hold dear here in America and why we are beholden to Walmart and China. Something can always be found cheaper but does it ever give you the same pride of ownership? A Model 12 always gave me a sense of pride and always worked, whereas my Mossberg with its ever jambing shell magazine I am ready to cut in half in the chopsaw. Cheap is as cheap does, there is a reason why a $450 gun won't eject shells or has trigger pulls as hard as a wedding night d*ck
I have had to rework the triggers on many American made guns I have bought new in my lifetime as well.
Neither was I "comparing" the two guns. If I could have found an affordable American made .410 S x S with the quality of the Yildiz I would have bought it. It didn't exist, wonder why?
Your reason for extractors on .410s sure don't agree with the man who designed and made this RBL, Tony. He told me, as I said earlier, how hard it is to get ejectors to work right on a .410. The reason it doesn't eject shells is that it doesn't have ejectors. Duh!
It is not important to me whether or not you like the Yildiz, or the fact that I bought one. I prefer to think of the Yildiz as a good
VALUE, not as being the best .410 out there. I understand pride of ownership very well, and I also recognize condescension when I see it.
Maybe
YOU should have bought a "$450 Turkish gun" instead of an American made non-functioning Mossberg.
SRH
I'm betting that the CSMC .410's will find homes. If CSMC can get their price, good for them. That's what they are in business to do, make money.
For several reasons I won't be among the buyers. I don't have 7K laying around with nothing to do. The .410, any .410, would be of very limited use for me. Never have developed a fondness for them.
The Ugartechea boxlocks are OK, I'm very tempted to get a LCS grade 2 in 28 ga. I may just have 2K available! That said I've burned nicer walnut in the fireplace, pretty plain. The wood on most any RBL is better. Is it 4K better? Depends on how much you like fancy wood.
I would never knowingly buy a Turk gun, political reasons!
Chief
Just for info, here's an AOC/SG .410, new and in stock for immediate delivery. Nice wood, real engraving and checkering, double triggers, long tang. Hard for me to justify the additional $2749 for the RBL, plus another $700 for the long tang. Glad I'm not in the market (now) for another .410.
http://www.sidebysideshotgun.com/New_Guns4602.html
Yep Replacement, they are nice enough. I've got no problem with the Ugartechea guns. The one you show is similar to LCS grade three. I think you have the long tang reference attached to the wrong CSMC gun, (Inverness)? Or did I miss something?
The engraving on the RBL is not its strong point. In its defense I would at least rate it as concise. The checkering on my RBL 16 is good, no burnt look to it. Personally I'm not a fan of engraving unless it is really done right. Not going to see any of that on a RBL, Uggie or most guns for that matter. I would just as soon they left it off in most cases.
Chief
....the American companies that left here, why do you think they moved, cheaper labor so more money in the CEO's pockets...
I know this isn't the place, but if we're to blame, which we are for many things. Why are you hammering the next generation with the blame and complain game.
The value question is open, but it's a nicely scaled little gun. I hope there will always be folks who stick their neck for interesting projects.
I think you have the long tang reference attached to the wrong CSMC gun, (Inverness)? Or did I miss something?
You're correct. Thanks.