Yesterday, I chanced upon a very nice Webley and Scott 20ga SxS. I don't know much about Webley and Scott guns, nor any English shotguns for that matter, but I believe it was a Model 702, if that makes any sense. The gun handled superbly, and had a beautiful bluing to the barrels and nice CC on the action.

Engraved upon the barrels was "Regulated and Shot by Holland and Holland." "H&H" was also engraved on the side of the action. The gun store owner told me that this was a gun that had been built by Webley and Scott, and then sent to Holland and Holland where the ribs were de-soldered and the gun re-regulated by shooting and adjusting, etc. Presumably, H&H reblued the barrels after regulating, and possibly did the case coloring on the action, too.

Why would Holland and Holland rework a Webely and Scott? I always thought of Webley and Scott guns as being very well made, and not in need of re-regulating by anyone. I also thought that the London "Best" gunmakers would never openly acknowledge that a gun coming out of their shop was made by a "lesser" Birmingham firm.

Anyone ever hear of Holland and Holland reworking a Webley and Scott and then proudly proclaiming such on the gun? Anyone have any thoughts on how much over the price of a regular Webley and Scott the work by Holland and Holland would add?

It was a beautiful gun, regardless.

--shinbone

This was done by both H&H & JP&Sons at times. Guns were made by W&S or others , in the white, Shipped to London usually Full & Full then Shot and choke opened to customers requirement( regulated) Engraved ,Blacked, Color Hardened, Freed and delivered

Shinbone: I had a H and H 20 b with a dogs head ext felt to be a W.C. Scott action (not Webley). It looked like a bar action sidelock, but in reality it was a 5-pin back action sidelock lacking intercepting sears. It was a nice gun but nowhere on the gun did it say Scott. The experts tell me in the 20s when this gun was made the big makers and some smaller makers outsourced to the trade to fill orders. Purdey and Boss and others did the same thing. This particular gun was made for a woman or child with a short stock. I was also told it may have been a gamekeepers gun. It was very nice and lively, well balanced but not in the same league as a Best Royal, etc. Jaqua's has this particular gun and a ways back I saw Cabelas had one very similar. At the time it was about a $14-15K gun. Buzz

Article by Dig which touches on this:

http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/guns-and-shooting/classic-guns

Webleys made them ,complete ,sent to Hollands as finished guns ,chokes bored to order ,{3/4 & 1/2 for example}.If Hollands did any work at all to the guns it was ony minor choke adjustments. It was a way of hollands selling a cheap gun with their "name" on without actualy saying they made them. Webley's did not send guns in the white or in the unfinished state to Hollands to have them returned after they had "been worked over".

Shinbone...send Holland and Holland and email with your serial number. They may be able to give you a year of production on your gun and a little more info. They did for me on my H&H marked Webley.

"Shot and regulated" dealt only with adjusting the chokes, if indeed any was required. The term did not include removing the ribs, etc. It is a oft quoted fantasy that shotgun barrels were regulated by moving the barrels and relaying the ribs. Not so. Only when the grossest error was discovered would such a thing be done. Being a shotgun and not a rifle it is no big problem to get them pointing in the same general direction upon their first joining.

"Shot and Regulated by" simply means the "by" assures the buyer that the gun is up the "by's" sandards for the quality grade of the gun on offer. Scott/W&S certainly knew how to manufacture properly choked and regulated guns.

I have come across them marked as such from time to time. Hollands did own Webley & Scott for a few years; without checking I think it was in the 1980's, and they marketed boxlocks with the model designation of The Cavelier Model. Lagopus.....

Bowood and Chatsworth were Webley guns , or rather W & C Scott ,Hollands having at this time sold of the Webley part for air guns .The Cavalier was a different design that was ,as far as I recall sold under the Holland name.