Need advice on wether to purchase a nice English gun with a single trigger. I have become smitten with a nice Lang single trigger gun I have found on the web. Generaly I would prefer double triggers but I have really had this Lang start to grow on me. So how are the triggers especially on Langs?
My other alternative is to purchase a Winchester Model 21, 20 gauge I have been looking at with 30" barrels and have it re-stocked.

PALUNC:
In my personal view, you're much better off with the Lang. And any honest vendor should allow you to prove the trigger on a 3-day return privilege.

In my personel view, three days, even if the guy lets you shoot it (he probably won't) doesn't prove squat with a single trigger. English single trigger designs, also, my personel view, are among the very worst. You don't say if the Lang is a boxlock (slightly better single trigger) or a sidelock (wood performs the central support role, and, while it was likely OK, back when the gun was new, it might not be now-usually not, in my experience).
Think this through a bit more. I'm pretty sure every part for a 21 trigger is available off the shelf. I'm not a fan of that trigger, either, but, at least there will be a bit less suspense when it acts up.

Best,
Ted

Just 2 or 3 years ago I was reading one of the very high end English shotgun maker's web sites when I came across a statement to the effect that they did not make single trigger guns as they did not feel the technology had been refined. I tried to find that again sometime later and it was gone. I honestly don't remember which maker is was and in trying to find it again I saw several single trigger models on all the sites I looked.

Could you have a competent smith convert the Lang to double triggers? Would that be possible?

I want to add to my earlier post that Purdy is the company that I beleive was the maker and that they do not offer SXSs with single SELECTIVE triggers. I believe single NONselective triggers are reputed to be reliable. Thanks

I have a single non-selective trigger on my William Evans 12 bore BLE, his patent, and so far it has not given any trouble. The gun is bored IC/IC for driven game. I would prefer double triggers but could not resist, buying it, as it is such an elegant gun. BHugh Lomas blacked the barrels for me and removed and atraightned the top rib and di a super job, I would recomment Hugh highly.
Mike

If it has worked for 75-100 years so far you should be all right. If in doubt send it out for an evaluation by one of the gun smiths mentioned here to have them look at the trigger and make sure it has not been fixed by some semi literate fool.

You are looking for a field gun not a clays gun. The difference is about 10-20 times more shells shot in a clays gun per year than a field gun. If you were gong to shoot ten grand of shells a year I would pass on the single trigger on any English double.

This is an interesting subject.

I've heard that English single triggers are lousy, from more than one source.

Note that production guns from around the world seem to have reliable single triggers. The technology is fully developed for PRODUCTION guns, where a standard design made from interchangeable parts is accepted and works well. Hell, I have a lowly SKB/Ithaca with a Jap copy single trigger that's 100% reliable. It certainly can be done...

Perhaps, as a guess, maybe single triggers aren't so well adapted to one-off style gun making? You can't expect screws (excuse me, pins) to interchange on a Brit best, perhaps it's difficult to make the trigger close enough to design specs for good function with traditional techniques.

This may be one case where machine made precision is required for function?

Well, yes, KY, I would not dream of using my Wm Evans for anything else than grouse or pheasants. 2 1/2" chambers mean for me it a reloading proposition anyway, except for her annual Flatwater extravaganza!
Mike

Life is too short as it is. Too often I hear would of, should of, or could of. Why not take the plunge and buy the gun if you have the hots for it? It is sure to cost you less than most female mistakes and you might find a winner. Worst case is that you send it down the road later and loose a few dollars. Best case is that you shoot it for years.

For years I wanted a side opening O/U. Bought one and found that I could not hit the side of a barn with it. I swear it was the worse I have shot a gun ever. Fit was not that off, chokes were not that much too tight, whatever the cause. I swear if I had loaded two shells to shoot myself I would have had to reload to get the job done. After most of a year trying to get it to work for me I sold it to a doctor in Lexington KY. No regrets other than having to cross that one off my bucket list. Even made a few dollars on the sale which is rare when you want to sell a gun that you can not shoot. Most of the time I take my losses and move along.

If the gun you are thinking of purchasing is the key hole Kirby Hoyt at Vintage Doubles has for sale I think you will get a good one. That gun is super nice and the locks are of very high quality with gold plated intervals. I thought about buying that gun but am gun POOR right now. Kirby assured me the trigger is sound and he is an honest, stand up guy and a. pleasure to deal with. If you don't like it, he will refund your money NQA. Buzz

How does the Winchester stack up compared to this Joseph Lang?

Comparing a 21 to a Lang is like comparing apples to oranges or a rugged and heavy boxlock to a delicate, well balanced, light sidelock. I like 21s and one can shoot boomers in it with no problem but they are heavy and I don't want to pack a 12 ga 21 for the uplands. The Lang would not like the boomers and they would be very hard on it but the Lang would be a pleasure to carry. The Lang being a sidelock is a superior gun to any boxlock IMHO; however legitimate Winchester Model 21s are excellent guns IMHO.

I understand that Buzz, but Mike was saying it was either the Lang or a Winchester 21 in 20 gauge.

The Lang is a sidelock and a very attractive gun. All I would need is to lengthen the pull on the stock and it would be good to go. But these days most of my shooting is for doves and clays and a 20 gauge Model 21 that I have found has 30" barrels but would need re-stocking.
I already have a Grant and a Hussey so English guns are not something I do not already have but like I said the Lang just looks good.
But practicallity says the 21 would be more fun with doves and clays.

I would select Winchester 21 20ga. When exact factory specs between metal components are maintained when new stock is installed Winchester single trigger is among the very best and ammo for that gun can be purchased at any shop including ChinaMart. If one is of Anglo-American persuasion I suppose English made shotgun may indeed have some appeal.

PS. In defense of English guns I have picked up Birmingham made "meat" rifle recently. It has exceptional set trigger system nothing like commonly found German or French systems. In std mode trigger pull is crisp 3.5lb and in set mode about 1lb. I would have to say it is among the best rifles I have ever shot and for the money it is the best rifle I have ever owned or shot.

Philip Baker at Indiana Gun Club has a nice straight gripped 20 b Model 21 with checkered side panels and checkred butt, 26 inch skeet 1, skeet 2 for sale. Matted rib, single trigger if interested. A 40s gun. Beavertail forearm. Beautiful figure both sides of stock. Buzz.

I have a 21 20 I have put over 100k shells through with no problem. My other sxs is a Purdey 12 with a non selective trigger which I have shot around 20k shells through with no problem.

If I had to choose between the two its no contest I would go with the 21. Nice thing about a 21 20 they are light enough to carry all day and also heavy enough to shoot all day plus you can buy AAs for clays and Kent 1oz of 5s in Tungsten Matrix for ducks.

AWC

Mike, for what you are going to use it for its the Winchester all the way. But price wise, how do the two compare with the restocking?